It will progressively become higher and higher, because with the crit rate from DEX scaling poorly with level, and STR getting more bonus points with more invested (and 10% more per rank as opposed to nothing for DEX), it will get more and more noticeable, especially as the level cap goes up.
Thanks alot, so penguin is still better hehe
how about lesser panda and guinea pig? any info in their stats and special buff?
A tanks main role is always 1) Get aggro
2) Survive
- almost always in all games means doing damage and then the games threat bonuses make it worth more than DPS threat generation.
So in a balanced game your damage expectations of a tank are relative to the damage expecations of the DPS.
If you expect tanks average threat to be 10x their average dps for instance, than you know DPS threat generation can’t exceed 10* tanks average dps, and vise versa.
You can give DPS tools to lower their threat, or give tanks more damage to increase their threat output among other things.
Making Guardian do its job correctly as trading meaningful offense for meaningful defense is not a problem, it’s not bad design, it is how the skill should work in a game that has now decided it wants skills to not fall off.
and when there is only 1 single skill that helps do the 1st job you have to choose one and sacrifice the other
which is the problem
this is the single mmo i have played in 100s of mmos that is designed like this
if i wanted to play dps i would have picked a dps
2 Likes
Except right now they give the exact opposite of this.
Tho then again if guardian increases both Phys Atk and Phys Def, it’ll kill off every other rank 2 classes.
Pretty sure the source of all this hate to guardian change is the -% Atk, which is totally counterproductive.
Not really.
Again.
All the devs are required to do to allow people to tank is keep DPS proportionate (based on provoke) to 1/6th +1 of DPS of of dedicated dps classes. Naturally that’s not a practical margin of error so you have player DPS even higher then 1/6th +1.
For a Squire, since they don’t have attack skills, they have to hope that the threat generation of ranks 1-4, are still = to more than 1/6th of the damage output of dedicated dps.
No ones telling you to be a DPS. Only that doing damage is still part of the tanking requirement. Not just holding C and swashbuckling for instance, but you went a route with no damage, so for the current situation of Squire C3, this means killing things while they’re under Swashbucklings effect instead of relying on Provoke. This is reasonable for field grinding but not bosses.
@AEttir not if that damage is supposed to come from skills. What it really means is that by taking this skill on you will not be as potent as dedicated damage dealers which is again fairly typical. Trading offense for defense, and the lost offense is made up from a threat generation perspective by the high threat modifier(s).
This again isn’t a problem for most possibilities after Pel C1/C2 or C3. But Squire had Zero damage skills. So it’s lacking damage contribution from level 127 to level 280…
You might get away with this as a Highlander C3 - Squire, going for bosses (especially with Vertical being improved), but as a Pel C3 tough luck.
WOW! are those numbers are real? 438 hp at level 1? that would be freaking big when they level up… oh, i though lesser panda gives crit attack and crit rate bonus. 
Well this is apparently easier to say and suggest then for them to actually implement it
Would be nice!
LOL yea removing the pelt entirely would be a good idea
who needs taunt right
at this point why even bother
i could even argue that being a quarrel shooter and using your shields to replace taunt while being a single target king for bosses is basically better with your logic
but we all know the true tank is cryo linker
they have pull and cc and hp and dps
Not really?
The game is again constantly updating.
Look at Giant Swings damage increase in this patch for instance.
Concentrates changes from two weeks prior.
Vertical slash changes.
Short term thinking brings short term results.
Damage is going up, but a general modifier against damage while increasing defense means “You are not going to be defensively potent and equal the DPS of dedicated damage dealers”. Which is fine because the threat generation of Provoke means you don’t need to deal the damage of dedicated dps to hold aggro. They just have to make sure your base damage output is appropriate, and then when you don’t need to be a defensive titan, you take off your defensive stance (guardian/High Guard) and deal damage.
The balance of this game is going to be considerably different by the end of the year, we all know that.
Problem is having to pay out the nose everytime to adjust to skill changes when it would otherwise be free in most self respecting games for changes of this magnitude.
You can’t completely wig out everything they make a long term move.
2 Likes
Giant swing is a conceptually bad skill (but that’s just picking out one)
I did the comparisons for vertical slash here:
Concentrate is additional damage, not phys damage. It seems like in the damage formula it just gets straight up added to the end and multiplied by nothing (and if we’re talking about tanking we shouldn’t even consider concentrate because a good one will require going sword 3)
Additive skill damage scaling really won’t help with overall DPS much
And for the attaque composee buff it gets pretty much nullified by the guardian change
I really hope so but I have my doubts sorry. Its been far too long. I really hope I’m wrong because swordsman is the only class I enjoy playing but oh well
The noted skills aren’t to make you think “oh well this solves everything” they’re supporting evidence of a general trend to increase damage output to be in line with certain expectations.
The balance of the game is already fairly different from how it was in January for instance or last year late December.
Since we know the balance is going to change (hell Rank 8 in August alone is going to change things up significantly) I know a lot more people are going to be frustrated.
Again if my damage output (on a basic level) is 100% of yours.
Then I flip on guardian and I’m at 85% of yours, but I am defensively stronger, this isn’t an issue because with a 6x bonus, I’m dealing 510% threat to your 100%. Guardians design works just fine for trading offense and defense. It’s a long term change, but creates short term considerations.
Let’s single out Pelt3 Squire3 build since its definitely a special case. Even for Pelt1 + 5 DPS class ranks, its still possible for fully dedicated DPS char cough archers and wizards cough to steal the aggro. And thats while spamming skills instead of hold-C afk.
Once again, the hate is on the percentage based Phys Atk reduction. They could increase guardian’s tanking viability by numerous ways, yet they chose “lol lets make it % based lol”.
1 Like
I’ve yet to see anyone really steal aggro once I start with Pouncing especially post patch unless they use Swashbuckling and then I get it back except on Trash mobs, because trash mobs die before Swashbuckling finishes.
If I’m dealing 6k per hit for example, in the background because of provoke that’s actually 36,000 per hit in Aggro generation. I don’t know what Ele is dropping 36,000 damage ticks of Frost Cloud.
Similar deal with Rush, Cyclone, Stabbing.
If your damage output is less than 1/6th of someone elses on a DPS class, this isn’t a reason for you to go “ah chit guardian % buffs, my Aggro!”.
You’re supposed to stop and wonder “How am I losing Aggro, with 500% additional threat generation, on every single attack I make. In the current environment”.
And come to the conclusion that
a) You’re playing poorly
b) Your class is having major damage concerns.
c) Both.
d) The class stealing aggro is actually overpowered and requires a nerf.
A reduction of 14%+ shouldn’t be crippling you (depending on where it applies I suppose) with a 500% threat generation when it comes to holding Hate.
2 Likes
man wth… link o never happend…
theres more to it than just flat damage
long cds mostly
this is why wugus and qs 3s and dopples are annoying
36000 is easy to pass
they spam like crazy in your downtimes
heck
a rogue sapper can do 400k+ damage in 15 seconds
i have to deal with having the aggro all the time
like i said the problem is also there in reverse
36,000 per tick of Pouncing (it hits about 3x per second, then going into Cleave, Cyclone, Seism, Carter Strike, Helm Choppers, and AA’s with 2-3k physical attack due to Deeds with increased ASPD.
As a Pel C3, all you have to do is spam Swashbuckling like a bot on trash mobs.
For those without we just do damage and know that with a 6x bonus it’ll workout on bosses.
Taking Ele3 might not be the best example as they don’t specialize in melting single target. Then again I was the first one to brought up wizards, my bad. How bout fletchers with their click-and-forget magic arrow? Definitely agree that currently Pouncing deals some nice damage, but it has some nice cooldown as well. Whether we can maintain the aggro outside Pouncing against something like magic arrow with its 5s cooldown is another question.
While I agree that -14% Phys Atk probably won’t cripple our aggro generation, it definitely would affect it negatively, which is once again, completely unnecessary.