the fencer who said they are having troubles is making me question your point
if we go by your logic the best tank is a pelt 1 and then 6 circles of dps skills with almost pure str
because damage is tank
so now not only are the dps swordies needing pelt 1 but the tank swordies need all the dps circles
literally the entre tree is pigeonholed
best tank is HIGHLANDER for having the 3x better block move with 0 penality
trololol
Tbh the guardian change was a bit uncalled for. Maybe IMC’s intention was to make pelt has easier time to reach that “1 damage taken” point. Except for the fact that its already relatively easy to reach, even without the guardian change, with 220 plate armors + aspersion.
As negative as it sounds, might as well delete guardian skill altogether. It provides nothing to damage-mitigation based tanker AND it actually hinders evasion-based tanker to maintain aggro.
I’m pretty much capped out on that unless I go for level 7 gems which isn’t going to happen. Both of those spreadsheet results takes my current gear in to consideration
Yes this could be the turning point for sure, been saying that for a while/agreeing with it, but the question is can we even get those cards in KR yet? I forget what monster they came from but I don’t think I’ve seen any screenshots of anyone using them. Does it have an internal cooldown? Or do they just infinitely work
Well this is going to sound counter intuitive to tanking I guess, but this requires a shield. That’s one thing I didn’t take in to consideration when making the spreadsheet comparison, I kept my dagger stats there. Without dex I would HAVE to use a shield when tanking, but with the dex I can get away with a karacha dagger in just about every situation. So then you also have to decide whether you use a crit rate gem or block gem in your shield. I’ll still keep it crit rate for the updated result. All results also excluded the additional medium target damage (Because…I forgot it anyway)
Yeah, even less of a difference now lol
And another edit: Oops forgot you lose 15% damage to pierce when equipped with a shield, so then it becomes:
I would agree, but I can’t say this for sure without seeing actual skill data first. As far as we know and as far as a track record dictates, epee stance might last for just one hit or something stupid
So yeah I don’t think this change helps much at all and don’t agree with it in the slightest
For bosses?
Often not having Pel at all is better for bosses. When these bosses have telegraph abilities you can actively avoid.
Peltasta’s niche is redirecting significant amount of enemies towards it, and then mitigating that damage with its defensive prowess.
This works best not for bosses but trash mobs.
If you can kill these in the time of swashbucklings effect then you don’t even need to generate additional aggro.
Let’s say we’re running the generic Saiuliu mission.
You do your Umbo Blow stuff and then Hold C on the Golem.
I hit pain barrier, as a precaution and then hit Pouncing.
I’m taking aggro under Provoke, now I’m just to jump and Slash during its attacks, and use skills inbetween.
Everything that you are, has become irrelevant because the boss attacks can be actively avoided while dealing damage, which lets me hold aggro.
Now we step into a place where we pull 25 mobs. You now ■■■■ all over me in efficiency because you can control a vast amount of targets, and minimize that damage while we destroy them in the small amount of time in which you have control of them.
Pel works best at handling quantities of physical damage you cannot reasonably avoid, most bosses do not fall into that issue.
So you grab a Pel C3, you slap Squire C3 on it, and then are bad at bosses. It’s a no brainer, they’re not currently suited to being monsters at bossing outside of spamming Swashbuckling as a means to hold it.
You my be capped, but with nearly full STR, lvl 7 gems (I have 3), 2 x Sissels, Virtov leather gloves, level 10 hoplites finestra, I should still be dealing more damage than a high DEX tank, while retaining mitigation through having a shield.
I’m not certain, but it’s not necessary, just an addition if you can’t press a well timed C, or jumping out of the way for a second.
You also have to consider damage shields like Otrava/Ledas. Though I feel there’s so much damage output that Aias is more useful.
ah i just realized i was talking to the guy who says we dont have tanks
i knew this conversation was reminding me of someone
also no pure con max buff tank is holding C
or they are challenged
Show me where I am remotely wrong.
I play Doppel, the main areas of where Pel comes in?
Field grinding (not because we’re going to die, but to pull), and ET (not because it’s a necessity, but as another method of crowd control).
You’re a Squire C3, literally only useful from a boss perspective for Arrest.
Wow.
i am not saying you are wrong i am saying that this setup IMC has is wrong and needs an overhaul
because why scream variety and then force everyone to be 1 thing? not even a fun thing but a weird messed up frankenbuild just to be viable
and then afterwards
kill the 2 most played tank builds 
keep beatin that dead horse imc
Can anyone tell the stats of CROW TIT and what is its special buff?
What is better for S3>CATA3>Dragoon1>Lancer1, Penguin or Tit?
It’s only wrong if they force a Trinity of Tank/DPS/Healer.
But that’s not what we have enforced, and it’s not a problem that we don’t since Peltasta is literally the only class with a dedicated aggro skill, you cannot at any point make it required for content.
So tanks are put into the “eh, maybe?” roll of a party from the get-go which is why its usually grab a Swashbuckling bot for grinding, and then get rid of them for anything that matters if you’re min-maxing.
They made Peltasta better at defense which is what its supposed to excel at in the first place. This isn’t killing anything.
It makes taking Guardian just for evasion more punitive for the purpose of dealing damage, but when you have a 6x Aggro boost in the first place, you basically look at things and say “All I have to do to be effective here is deal at least 1/6th of this persons damage”.
Simultaneously for IMC this also means “All we need to ensure to make sure this build can still take Aggro is make sure its damage potential is at slightly higher than 1/6th of DPS classes at bare minimum”.
This is easy to adjust (for instance we’re literally looking at Attack Compossee getting a damage buff in this patch). There are a lot of damage buffs in this patch alone.
The ones left out? Squire, because again. This class doesn’t really bring value as a party member in its current iteration, which says more about it, then it does about any Peltasta change. Squire has no damage skills, its shops don’t require it in a party to get your equipment boosted, and its food buffs will remain after you boot it from the party.
It also has some lame duck “if you die, heres less penalty” C3 skill.
Squire has its own problems, making Peltasta good at its theme isn’t anything for IMC to feel bad about.
This is, IMO, the main attraction of evasion-based tank. While damage-mitigation based tank dealing next to no damage due to PB being on cooldown, holding C, or jumping away, evasion-based tank can keep spamming skills (that for sure, dealing much more than even full-str’s auto attack damage).
Since we’re talking bout fencer, pretty sure fencer’s aggression attribute contributes a substantial amount of damage
edit : I guess I clicked wrong reply button. Sorry
Yes but I was comparing it to a non evasion based tank, thus the points I make.
All said and done, the current cap/skill balance does not favor DEX based tank. The allure of dealing damage for an extra second whereas another tank would have to jump away, is not very useful with content right now.
Maybe when Fencer C3 comes around, we’ll see some solid numbers and they’ll be better. But not right now, and not with the upcoming changes.
Can anyone tell the stats of CROW TIT and what is its special buff?
What is better for S3>CATA3>Dragoon1>Lancer1, Penguin or Tit?
The CrowTit Companion has a HP/SP Recovery Buff when accompanying a player. I don’t really know anything about swordsman to give advice though.
(stats)
This seems primarily class reliant then I guess since we’re two completely different class paths. Idk your full class path but I would imagine if you ended with dragoon the 2h spear attribute big game hunter would be quite a significant boost in dps if you could tank while using that.
Either way, if it comes down to only one viable class path for tanking for swordsman which is what it seems like we’re getting at that’s also bad design
I could but another thing that’s worth noting is with these comparisons I went from my current stats invested in str to every point being invested in str. This means I did not take any points in CON in to consideration, which should be a somewhat significant difference in damage but don’t know a proper amount of CON to have with this kind of set up so don’t want to make another comparison
Around 37 CON for 20k natural HP (which can be boosted to 30k with hats/awakening/plate armor), and then boosted further via squire food for any ET content, and eventually Transcendancy.
That’s my current stat spread for a majority STR based tank.
Oh so that’s pretty much what I have now then, so not too much of a difference in damage from str loss
It will progressively become higher and higher, because with the crit rate from DEX scaling poorly with level, and STR getting more bonus points with more invested (and 10% more per rank as opposed to nothing for DEX), it will get more and more noticeable, especially as the level cap goes up.
Thanks alot, so penguin is still better hehe
how about lesser panda and guinea pig? any info in their stats and special buff?