Tree of Savior Forum

Josh Strife Hayes reviews Tree of Savior


ToS is certainly a bad game but this review is worse. Like thinking the amount of people in West wood is the entire server population, judging base on the archivement system that only came out last year for a 5 years old game, calling thing like bonefire and anvil tp item where you can see them in shop if you bother talking to NPC, saying Luchador is money-gated class where it’s right there on advancement tab and doesn’t even bother checking the package content and just like “oh 500 tp to unlock Luchador - trash game”.


This review is certainly not accurate, but it reflects what a new player that doesn’t read the forum and has 0 info about the game thinks when starts playing.

Charts don’t lie.

It’s pretty clear he didn’t know that channels are per map, but 837 CCU average means that there are around 209 players per server connected at any time.
Do you think that every server, specially dead ones, has the same CCU?

Granado Espada has more than 2x the CCU. Granado Espada!

Not trying to be a party pooper here, but… do you realize that it doesn’t really matter when it came out and it’s even worse than what he says on the video?

Since the achievement system was implemented, 98.8% of players didn’t even use the badge shop.

I’m sorry but it will take a miracle to save this game.


the archivement system also count the player who play before too so it’s that low literally everyone in that video comment section mention that which mean only 1000 out of 50000 who has play the game ever touch the archivement system. 100-200 players compare to 4 is also a whole different picture. A review should at least have some research done into it and not half ass like that.

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I knew some of tos last white knight would stand up in this thread. Love to read these “ackchyually” reply

You are focusing too much on the review of a person barely anyone knows and not on the point.

I already said he didn’t bother to read anything about the game, but that’s what most of new players do.
The achievement system just shows what steamcharts also shows: this game has little to no player retention and is basically dead, no matter how much we twist and turn it.

100-200 players, (guesstimate) depending on the server, are surely different from 4, but it doesn’t paint the picture of an healthy, thriving game.

The point is: what the reviewer did is what most of new players do.


Literaly my first line said that the game is bad. No one in this forum would say the game is healthy and thriving either. But that doesn’t mean spewing out BS info is acceptable as proof why the game is bad.

A comment in that video actually describe the 3 weeks experience of using the free level up IMC give, how multiple confusing Ichor Transcend Vaivora Art, etc… work. That’s an honest review how bad the game is.
A guy who claim to play 8 hours and doesn’t get a footage that go beyond crystal mine, didn’t bother checking the NPC shop like most new player should’ve done doesn’t have any crediblity to give out review.


That is the nature of any kind of quick review, i’ve seen the same happening to the positive ones. In both cases, they just get a glimpse of the good and bad, and miss a lot of the other things that are also good and bad. You’re right that it isn’t a fair way to do them, but it’s hard to invest that much time into playing the game, formulate a coherent script and edit a video.

The fact the game lacks players to help newcomers and is short on positive elements for the early game experience and that helps the BS to happen, he may have done dirty to ToS but the game didn’t do that much better on its own to earn the benefit of the doubt.

And this. An engaging tutorial and a good learning curve are important for new players, if the community can’t fill that void, then IMC has to step up.


Yea, saw this video last night.
I’m guessing since he only played for around 8 hours, he got some stuff wrong/incorrect.
But imo, he;s not wrong on his other criticism.
And regarding the disparity of long player fans with the newcomers, he hit the nail on the head.

Sad thing is, If IMC truly want to fix the game, IMC gotta go the Realm Reborn way.
A full-on major overhaul.

As of now, ToS is on maintenance mode. No to ways about it. :confused:

Meanwhile a 19 years old game TOS wanted to be - one among sea of their other officially and privately run servers, in midnight where players in daily low:


I would say we’re way past that, because nothing mattering until the endgame is something a lot of MMORPG’s suffer from. This is not a ToS exclusive problem, but a mindset that has established itself in the industry somehow.

I have to agree with him though that the systems upon systems are too overwhelming for new or even returning players, especially if they’re just lazily explained in pop-up windows with walls of text.

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Maintenance mode means no content or patches are developed bro, tos is in actual development

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I agree that his quick review is kinda trash, especially if you know about the game and what went wrong with his opinion, but thats how most quick review does.

thats also why i never trust such thing for example rottentomatoes critique.

→ they who judges things bad, makes it like a general fact for people to believe, are actually the trash one. Our own OPINION of how good or bad things for us is the only one FACT that matters for us

i`d say he just try to be a representative of majority of newcomers who mostly are dumb or lost.
he indeed doesnt have the right to judge the game from his short experience and lack of information

but then again that what most newcomers do over their short playtime enough to judge the game for their own. it doesnt take too much time for a newcomer to judge whether a game is bad or not according to their own taste or preference. this become more apparent when you dont get hooked to the game or the game simply doesnt offer what you wanted from what you think of an MMO.

agree. early game experience indeed play a big role, but for tos even if they try to fix it, refurbish, revitalize or whatever they do to it, its just not gonna add that much value to tos. why?

→ because its too late for a great start

even if they gonna rebrand tos rerebuild rererebuild and so on…

a great start plays a very huge role for game life and its development and tos doesnt have it which also translate why and how we ended up with our management and end game development.

i always believe if tos had great start, if everything went more smooth, tos wouldve get better recognition, and ultimately better management and development.

tbh he dont need 8 hours, just see the dead chat, its enough to judge an MMO. it aint no MMO when the chatbox is like grave.


this reminded me the ol days my senpais who think that runescape is such masterpiece mmo, they would recommend me playing it, i gave it a go for like couple hour but i dont even enjoy it and personally i might even think its kinda rubbish hahaha

so honestly if you are white knight just chill and enjoy the last breath of tos while it last, who is this clown anyway

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He is right on some stuff, but i’ve rarely seen someone play like him. The average person that plays this game takes 1 hour to do the mines the first time, doesn’t think that basic starter items are premium items, actually equips a spear on the spear class dragoon, etc.

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If there’s an increase of 80 gain than that would be all me claiming freebies.
That’s if the number isnt represent concurrent player.
Either way, chart can lie.
Even statistics people would believe that it can lies.
I didn’t meant to say tos have more players no.
It’s the other side.
The thing is active players doesn’t really matter in term of server longevity.
It’s actively paying players that matters.
The server can probably run with 100 players who pay like nuts for cute hat.

ToS currently: connect to the game, find full 460 pack in mailbox, use everything to make a level 460 char, the end. There’s no tutorial on how to play from there, and the most enjoyable part of the game (quests, exploration, finding your build and experimenting…) is finished before it even started.

About that video…

Sponsors, ads, comparison with FPSs… wtf??? How can you be serious about making a ToS review when half the review has nothing to do with the game? It’s ToS, not **** Halo whatever… This makes me think the guy doesn’t give a **** about the review and just wants money from views and Halo sponsorship…

2:45 Hitbox problem… whoever plays with mouse and tries to do Snake raid exactly knows the problem
3:36 If you think the best ToS has to offer is the “I can see in your eyes” song, then I don’t know what to say…
4:10 When you do a review, first get some knowledge about the game. You must be really moronic to think that’s the whole server’s population… (especially when you start in the support guild and see in chat 20+ different people logging and chatting in the five minutes you play the game for your review…)
6:40 Yes the early game is easy af, you pretty much oneshot anything below level 200 with a basic attack and below 400 with a skill. The main part has been trivialized so you attain endgame faster, which is the point where you are supposed to spend money. Nothing to say about this problem, it’s well known and won’t probably be addressed ever. That’s why I prefer roguelikes – game is balanced from level 1 to max level with abilities and enemies that are matched.
11:05 Good point – and that’s exactly why there are not more players, the game throws too much stuff at the beginning
23:23 **** off, we get it already…

Oh yeah I noticed that. But maybe there are no spear users in Halo… :haha:

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I think it’s a great video and very accurate. Most of the points is the same how the community feels overwhelming, bad early experience, good art has potential and disappointment. I also like that he brought up the screen direction during map transition and non matching assets/ost to the environment for the immersion, even tho that they are good.

Sure he was wrong about the anvil being in TP shop and Luchador is only available there, but lets be real it’s not far away from the truth. And don’t get to stuck up on the pay to talk, 4 player in entire Europe it’s just sarcasm. Then we have steam stats that might not be 100% accurate but that’s what everyone sees.

We know the game isn’t good, but if you really need to defend our pile of crap at least come up with some good arguments. Some of the points I read here is just petty.

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With how toxic the community is and can’t handle the slightest amount of critique of their game, its no wonder the only people left are angry elitists who sunk too much time and money into the game that they refuse to move on.

Video points out many valid complaints a new uninformed player would have about the game and the defense ends up being “lmao lv27 in 8 hours”. Nice toxicity i wonder why people don’t stay. :blush:


You’re right, that was incorrect of me.
I just couldn’t find a word to accurately describe ToS’ condition right now.

For me, TOS is and always will be my favorite MMORPG in my entire life. I played since closed beta and cursed idTOS era until lv 360 update, then moving on to iTOS . After failing on my secound steam account (because back then my country was region locking the iTOS so we have to play with VPN, hence using second acc to prevent unwanted things on main acc), I started playing on 2nd season server with my main account and now I can say I’m current Vice Master on my server ([SEA]Telsiai).

The problem TOS have is that they only take feedbacks from kTOS players (which almost all of them are P2W players). iTOS players can only datamine the kTEST/kTOS update, then theorycrafting from it (class builds, events, etc).

IMC never wants to rework new player progression, so no matter how rich TOS lores are, players didn’t have chance to get into it (Main Quest, skipping until Episode 12-1). There is no tutorial raid that new players can learn for its gimmicks, they only have “Normal” type of Legend Raid that players even need to search the gimmicks on Google.

“Can TOS be saved?” Seeing how IMC is doing their monthly reworks, no way TOS gonna come back to be relevant MMORPG with new, better, and unique MMORPG will always be released. IMC also is dividing their job by taking care of Granado Espada as well (that’s why its player base still high). TOS already suffered from early open beta release with so many blunders (super high ping, potato server, lots of bugs, etc) so people are already lazy to go back.

tl;dr : TOS has little chance to come back to keep up with new MMORPG unless IMC really needs to set up their priority.

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