NO WAY Flesh cannon damage is near Frost Cloud for its duration. Also Frost Cloud hits more targets and it’s AoE is bigger.
So you’re saying you think it’s a thing that Linker is supposed to be a class that casts one skill that makes anyone oneshot an entire elite pack in half a second with just about any skill?
No. Frost cloud is 32 hits, Flesh Cannon is 16 hits.
Assuming 2000 matk with max skill attribute and quick cast attribute
Frost Cloud = [(643 + 2000) * 2 * 1.5] * 32 = 253,728
Flesh Cannon = [(1813 +2000) * 2 * 1.5] * 16 = 182,024
Now from these figures you may think that frost cloud has won. But with actual DPS you divide them for their CD.
Frost Cloud = 253,728 / 30 = 8456.6
Flesh Cannon = 182,024 / 20 = 9,151.2
It is quite a huge damage/s difference. Flesh Cannon will continue to out damage frost cloud when necro hits C3.
At Necro C3:
Flesh Cannon = (2530 + 2000) * 2 * 1.5 = 217,440
Flesh Cannon DPS = 217,440 / 20 = 10.872
Now see why it is the strongest Wiz Skill? The AoE issue can be solved with Circling + Frost Pillar. Too much of a hassle but just wanted to point out that frost cloud isn’t the most damaging wiz skill 
Am I the only person who thinks it’s not a good sign when we have to debate whether or not this mechanic is a bug or not? Talk about poor communication from IMC. u - u;
Not just any skill, any skill that has good interaction with it.
It has a cooldown for a reason, and is capped at 11 targets. One Frost Cloud can finish a 15-mob pack, if this version of Linker is OP than Elementalist should get nerfed too.
Yes, as you make calculations for 1 target, without considering Pass and number of targets hit, that may be correct.
Without Circling AND Frost Pillar you are never going to hit every target, Flesh Cannon doesn’t have a Cooldown compatible with both skills and even loses some Pass potential (as do any skill with less than 25 sec CD)
Frost Cloud is not OP because it does 32 hits only, it’s OP because it can deliver 32 x 15 = 480 hits and has the same cooldown and duration from Circling.
Lol so you are saying Flesh Cannon is the strongest but needs circling, frost pillar won’t solve anything, as it wont decrease mobs aoe ratio.
Nice, the “best aoe skill” need another character to work.
I think we are talking about the strongest wiz skill and I just proved that lol.
The potential with flesh cannon is there. Frost pillar + Circling is needed to maximize the small AoE of Flesh Cannon while Circling to hit everything gathered in the Frost Pillar via -AoE Ratio.
Damage wise Flesh Cannon wins but of course Frost Cloud hands down win in the AoE department. Also,
Yes that’s why I said that it is the most powerful wiz skill in the damage/cd ratio which is the one of the best measure for DPS. Never have I claimed that it is the best AoE wiz skill but it can work with the suggested combination.
Lol… You didn’t prove anything ;x we are not playing tree of vacuum. Dealing damage is not a simple Number of hits / cooldown calc.
Then we have the BEST skill in the game, Magic arrow, will obliterate anything, it deals insane damage, has 5 secs cooldown. Other factors just doesn’t matter.
Please read again
/20char
Please read again -> [quote=“pedrothin2, post:29, topic:319032”]
we are not playing tree of vacuum. Dealing damage is not a simple Number of hits / cooldown calc.
[/quote]
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Strongest Wizard skill is Frost Cloud.
I’m done lol. I just did the calculation for you yet you still cannot understand it. 
You mean any skill that can hit multiple targets? lol…
Yeah one Frost Cloud can finish a 15-mob pack, in 10 seconds, assuming yours is even strong enough versus the mobs you’re fighting, amazing how a DPS class works right? With how JP, a support skilll, is working right now there’s never gonna be a mob that isn’t oneshot by your most basic skills in a split second - unless they decide to make common mobs with HP values that no one w/o JP can realistically kill.
Like, people here are arguing about wether Frost Cloud or Flesh Cannon is stronger and it literally doesn’t matter - not as long as both skills are killing entire elite packs in 3-4 hits because of how bugged JP is atm 
Seriously? Have you even tried anything else than Elementalist 3? NOT EVEN ONE other class in the game can come close to it’s damage. It is VERY easy to 1-shot packs of 15 mobs outside of ET (inside there nothing comes close to it) for them while most classes from other branches that not wizards (mostly not Ele 3) suffers with those.
It DOESN’T matter if monsters die in 0,5 seconds with JP, you can only do that every 22 seconds.
What’s the problem of it being a support skill? It doesn’t do any damage at all, it only amplifies other attacks. Pass, Blessing and most other supportive skills are made with the intention of making DPS better.
I don’t even know why I lose my time on threads like these anymore, JP is the way it is and not a single post have been made about it not being correct FROM IMC, cry all you want, not that I really need this version of JP for my build, it just makes things better.
JP being good helps EVERY SINGLE class in the game to get better. Elementalist being OP helps only himself and makes everyone that wants to play a wizard build and not look retarded putting circles on the ground useless.
If you consider 1 stationary mob then Cannon can do more damage. If you take average number of hits deployed (since cannon can easily be missed) Frost Cloud will always win.
Also you considered 2000 matq, which is good, but the higher we go on those values the less base damage matters.
JP will be fixed eventually, i don’t know when since IMC so slow response to bugs. Enjoy while you can, but I think no point to discuss it further.
Frost Cloud is the best AoE handsdown, but it need to combine with Quickcast. What makes it really popular in ET is due to Fire element mobs, and the high block rate made physical DPS in disadvantages.
If not because of that, a Linker C3 with divine might/dandel gem for 11 targets will be as popular as Elememe in ET. You lost 4 targets, but with Diev and lower CD they able to clear the large portion of mobs faster to ease the dangers.
Linker provide more flexibility into future, while Wiz3>Elem3 seeing its struggle as R7-R8 there is no real AoE DPS successor, at the same time other classes in rise of AoE. Maybe it is good idea to take thaumaturge C2 as equal to increase the base skill damage (and it count your quickcast % as well) which make frost cloud on par with higher rank skills to retain the 1 shot mechanism.
JP was already incredibly good. Infact, ranks in linker are probably the only thing salvaging and saving every wiz class and build that isnt wiz3ele3wl and chrono. The problem with wizard isn’t ele, but rather the fact that nearly all of the dps options on wiz tree are garbage compared to archer and even cleric options. All you have to do is go to a few populated world boss fights and you’ll see that its practically never wiz classes that are ranking unless they have TONS of support, because they have terrible damage compared to classes like fletcher.
This kind of statement is a good example of thinking in a vacuum tbh. 22 seconds, meanwhile theres nothing stopping you from having 2-3 linkers and/or a diev, as well as the fact that chronos can already build linker2chrono3 (soon to be linker3chrono3 with rank8). Like you think ele is a problem, but just wait until chrono3linker3s can keep dex/str boosting lifelines on phys chars fulltime; there won’t be any place for wizards anywhere that arent chronolinker.
Wait… but i thought you said:
So which is it? Also, i thought you also said JP was already good? Which’s perhaps the only reasonable thing you’ve said here.
Anyway, i actually have, and Elementalist is far from being the strongest class in the game - it sure is the strongest dps Wiz though (not so much because it’s way too strong as the other options being utter garbage). But hey, i forgot you went Sorc because magic circles are apparently dumb… You have a burning rage for Elementalists, you literally bring them up in every thread you go to even if the subject has nothing to do with them.
The bottomline is: the intent behind Joint Penalty is spreading single target damage to multiple mobs, not making AoE skills (such as frost cloud) or skills that only pretend to be single target (such as flesh cannon, freezing sphere, every swordsman skill, etc) do 5x~10x damage to every single mob.
I’m not crying about anything, this thread is literally someone asking if it’s bugged or intended - i said it’s bugged and it rustled your jimmies. That’s a fact, i’m not trying to argue with you its merits and wether or not it should be fixed. Now wether they’ll fix it or not… is their business. It can stay bugged for a while longer for all i care, it’s helping everyone, but that doesnt change this simple fact. Leading people to believe it’s intended will only lead to them making characters they’ll regret down the road if/when it’s finally fixed and they go out cursing IMC demanding a class reset.
So yeah, i don’t know why you waste your time either, as you’re wasting mine as well since i apparently have to spell out the ABC to you.
I think that’s my new fav quote 
Archers, Swordsman and Clerics DPS all have skills that can make good use of JP. Frost Cloud breaks JP very fast, Elementalist DON’T need linkers to excel.
I don’t think JP should amplify AoEs, it’s just that Magic Missile was doing LESS damage than intended. Familiar and Dark Theurge are still mostly working the same. The thing is on MM even if it had 6+ missiles it would barely hit each mob 3~4 times, when it’s supposed to be a multi-hit singletarget spell.
I’ve just tested this “bug” on my linker (pyro > linker 1 atm) chrono and flame ground was NOT doing 5x it’s damage with 5 mobs on top of it, I can’t record it but I hope someone could. I think it has the 2x effect it had before.
It’s just as you said, most alternative classes to elementalists use Linker. That’s because other classes have good synergies with it, they can output great damage if used correctly, but even so, in any way you would put 6 different classes together you would never get even close to something like a Frost Cloud.
Yes, you say it is bugged out of your own mind and expect everyone to watch?
It was different, it got changed, it can be changed back or even into a whole new version. This game is not finished.
Yes, I like Sorcerer a lot, I do much more PvP than PvE on my main character to be honest. I average 130k+ damage per TBL’s battle, can’t really log into all those hours but stayed in 4th on 2vs2 rank (can’t play 5vs5 on 2~3 fps).
I haven’t even once talked about how Elementalist is weak, it does have the strongest skill in the game and I hoped it gets balanced someday (though I don’t really think it will). What I always say is I don’t like Deployment skills, they work poorly on PvP and can be both broken or taken.
OP:
There is no answer to this yet, many people have reported the situation but the staff has yet to answer for themselves.
Linker builds were very good on kToS and with the merge it was very likely that a lot of guys would quit there, maybe this is some kind of trying to find the ideal mechanic for JP.
Sorry for anything, I got bored with this topic already, hope IMC say what they are doing to Linkers soon, my only point was this one:
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Making Linker REALLY good (not a class to be used with Chrono only) by itself would help a lot both parties and Wizards themselves as you have much more options of classe to go. (Which to me should be the ways of this game)
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I though about building a Wiz 3 > Ele 3 myself, seriously. My only problem was that I like to PvP a LOT, MUCH more than PvE, I don’t care at all about doing ET to be honest but I like to get into the PvP arena and feel like the ultimate wizard nuke, I made my build in a way I could do both, more focused on PvP where sorcerer is a beast but good enough at PvE also.
That’s because most of the other wizards classes are just not good lol. Like independent of frost cloud they simply do not stack up to the dps options of other classes.
Maybe I’m alone in this thinking, but the only real niche I see for wizard classes comes through aoe damage? Frost Cloud can be very powerful with correct mobbing/grouping and thus makes ele relevant. Linker can be very powerful if used correctly to turn strong single target skills into aoe, and thus makes linker relevant. However, beyond that all of the damage related aspects of wizard fall miserably short compared to other classes except for chrono’s affect on damage. You don’t need sorc to get ranks in linker, you dont need necro to get ranks in linker, you dont need pyro/thau/kino to get ranks in linker, and with rank8 chrono and linker can be rolled into one.
Really, like not only world bosses but even just look at how people echo for parties. No one says “sorc lf alemeth pt” they say “linker lf alemeth pt”. No one says “4/5 need pelt, we have necro” they say “4/5 need pelt, we have linker”.
Outside of linker many of the wiz classes currently have next-to-nothing compared to other chars, and that has nothing to do with ele since even ele outside of frost cloud’s ability to utilize aoe with grouping would quickly fall short of even cleric magic such as carnivory and even zaibas, let alone high end archer dps.
3 Likes
Well necro and featherfoot at least do get to double archer autos and ability dmg with corruption. And I think that is under appreciated. Perhaps once R8 hits and necros can just apply corruption with their flesh meteors while joint penalty is down. Since dirty pole’s AoE is too small for use outside of mobs vortexed by frost tree or hangman’s.