Tree of Savior Forum

Is this game cruel with early DD mages?

Class and Rank Wizard
#1

Going straight to the point:
I’m a Pyromancer, i like to be a Pyromancer,i like to see the things burning, do you guys understand ?
So why in the seven hells i have to become something different in order to keep my damage relevant in high levels? I dont want to be a sorc,necro or a stupid runecaster, i don’t want to become a support either, i just want to keep doing what i’ve been doing until now, but it seems impossible since theres a rank 7 class casting spells 10x stronger than mine.
“Come on Caio, just pick one of those ‘ultimate’ classes and keep going.”
Man, it’s stupid too, since as it seems pyro3 is not a good choice for any “super powerful build”, as it seems everyone should go wiz3, maybe feel levels of liker or thau and then finally the so waited powerfull class.
Come on guys, what will happen when they release even stronger classes, everyone will make new characters in order to chose the circles that better fit the new “damage monster”?

Please don’t come here with the early-late game talk, it’s not a moba, our experience do not lasts 40min, our “late-game” lasts forever.

#2

If you are worried about that, i would recommend you to stop playing right now, all the classes need rework, many don’t scale well as Archer does, I am at Lv 204 as Wiz C1 > Pyro C2 > Linker C1 > Sorc C1 > Alch C1 (yeah i messed my original build but i don’t care) and i can tell you, 280+ INT won’t help you much on dealing damage as Pyro, Temple Shooter 9 Stars can help a bit, but since the monsters on most of the Lv200+ maps have massive damage, it won’t last for long so i am bound to recast it ofter (sometimes it dies faster than the skill CD), Linker help lots on damage, unfortunately for my build Linker C2 will be out and i will have to wait for R8 to be released only God knows when.

Just a heads up tho, you have to enjoy your choices, be them bad or good, as i said above, i messed my build, but even so, i still have fun with it, that is the important part to play ToS in its actual state.

2 Likes
#3

Pyromancers skills hit hard all year round especially with its cheaper Enhance
Pyro’s aoe capabilities get overshadowed more then its damage does.

There’s nothing unfair, you get your Pyro toolkit and build further with more skills.

Fireball is 15 hits with 2 overheat for 30 hits every 15s. Frost cloud is 30 hits over 10s every 30s.
Frost Cloud hits more targets and has a little over 300 more base damage on each hit but doesn’t hit flying targets.
How exactly did your fireball fall off in damage. It falls off in aoe capability.
Flame Ground falls off in damage is more like it as it takes forever to kill things, but firewall deals its hits quickly (but a higher cd) for a more bursty presence, not that Flame Ground doesn’t deal a lot of damage over its lifetime, it just doesn’t deal that damage quickly.

Pyro has a lot of damage that in certain respects is comparable to late-game damage as far as raw numbers go, but it’s not as practical to use.
You’ll still get use out of Pyro skills, but you’re getting more skills so why trip?
I’d say the Hell Breath buff (which adds 50% scaling to fire attacks) is fairly likely as well.

If you do something like Pyro 2 or Pyro 1 then yeah you’ll fall off quickly. 10/20 hits every 15 is nothing.

I went Pyro C3 into Sorc so I don’t see your problem.
The summon is largely passive damage and you can basically set it and forget it for the most part while you’re doing a Pyro rotation.
Summon Familiar bats are 15 hits every 30s at C3 (but its skill damage scales with Int), you’re already doing 2 casts of 15 hits with level 15 Fireball every 15s.

#4

i was c3 pyro in icbt2, the damage started to fall off then.
i was frustrated too; the entire point of pyro is to do dmg but if it doesnt whats the point right?

no matter what anyone says, pyro3 is a piece of garbage lvl 280. just like swordsman, barb, etc
i realized that and moved on to looking for better things.
but thats how the game creators designed the game, and imo it’s flawed, but thats how it is for now.

1 Like
#5

I’m a Linker 3, Pyro1, My Damage actually does quite a bit of damage.

Fireball can be used with links + hangmanknots for damage. you can even use flame ground/firewall/flare to keep them there for 4seconds.
In reality C3Pyro,C3Linker is more then enough for you to hit level 280. It’s all about combining your “Support Skills” with your spells. You’d be able to CC while damaging.

#6

Tbh Linker C3 i kind useless, unless you gonna use lifeline, it only add +2 or +3 links to JP.
Pyro get a good boost from links, At C1 i am able to double the damage with links, and i only link 5 targets at C1, my summon do 4K per hit and 6K when critical hit (both damage are 2x since it do double hits), so i can kill stuff, but tough monsters with huge HP pool can be a pain in the ass to kill.

#7

well ya know there is a difference between hitting 8 targets twice and 10 targets twice, 4 second deadman knots is pretty sexy too. 1 more second of holding enemies in flame ground.

Lifeline, most useful in dungeons. Spreading out skills is one thing, but sharing str and dex between dpsers can drastically increase your dungeon clear speed.

#8

Most of the time you wont be able to grab many mobs, even small amounts like 3 or 4 will be tough with “small ■■■■” people ksing you just for the fun or because it is fun to ks who is trying hard lol.

Yes, Hangman’s Knot with 4 secs can give you window to cast fireball before the mobs start to move and hit you again.

That is true.

#9

There’s the entire point of the game, the producers says:

  • Look at us, we have 80 classes and complex job system.
    when it’s more likely:
  • Hello, we have 80 classes but 70 of then fall really hard at certain point of the game and you will need to choose between the other 10 to keep playing.
    and we say:
  • But misters producers, we want to keep playing pyromancer.
    and they say:
  • Oh, then it’s it! You can keep casting some fireballs but you have to pick something to do the REAL damage, ok? Here, learn some Warlock skills while you don’t overcome your little charizard’s phase.
#10

You have to understand the classes here have synergy with others, this is not RO where you pick a mage type class and go with fire kills all the way up the top, and as i said, the game is not balanced yet, so indeed you have to deal with it as it is now, pick something to complement your class, want more fire spells, pick Elementalist, theres 2 fire spells on the class (Prominence and Meteor).

Wiz C1 > Pyro C3 > Ele C2 > ?

The last one you can fill there just for the heck of it, it is up to you.

#11

i’ve said it before, and i’ll keep saying it, and this is not only limited to mages, but every class line to varying degrees:

Q: Why is my rank 2 Class not as strong as a Rank 5 or rank 6+?
A: Because your class was scaled to be effective at the point you can first obtain the class.

right now, the best case of scaling i can give you on the wizard tree is either being a support, a wiz3/kino3/WL, or a Wiz3/Elem3/RC or WL. these builds scale well because they are optimized around doing the most damage they can and being an effective party member. i’ll agree that pyromancer does not scale particularly well, but this can be said for many classes. Swordsman tree’s ‘Scaling’ into the late game is literally dependant on swashbuckling from peltasta, if your going AA archer, the only skill that matters to you until you reach QS3 is oblique shot, which is one of the worst scaling skills in the game. and after you hit QS3 you will pretty much rarely ever use anything other than Running shot, kneeling shot if you obtained archer c2. and thats pretty much all you’ll use until you hit musketeer, and even at musketeer that’ll still be your main combo. Clerics are pretty much forced into the full support role for the first 2 ranks, and if they’re not picking bokor/sadhu/paladin, they’re stuck as full support for the first 5 ranks. with little to no damage options available to them until around rank 4/5. if anything wizard is the blessed one in terms of scaling classes for dealing damage. so while your pyromancer might not be scaling as well as another class, you essentially just have to get over it, and build around it. make up for what your pyromancer lacks in your other class choices, but no matter how much you ask for it, your pyromancer itself, a class scaled to be effective from level15 to ~level 90 is never going to be as strong as classes scaled to be effective from the 175-225+ ranges.

2 Likes
#12

Sorry, but you said nothing new. And that’s exactly the point of the topic, we don’t have 80 playble classes here and it’s like the producers are making some "MOBA ultra metagame oriented stuff"it’s all about perfect builds, it’s all about classes being much stronger than others, its all about play what the metagame imposes to you.
And in terms of information from 15 to 90 only take a few hours, there’s no point in make a class that only shines for 2 days, maybe a week…

#13

i’ve said nothing new, as nothing new needs to be said. What i have said is the cold hard truth of the game, and with ranks 8, 9 and 10 to be released later down the lifeline of this game, the lower ranked classes will continue to be outshined in terms of damage, but remember this, damage never stops being damage. your flame pillar that deals x damage a hit every second, your flame ground that deals x damage ever other second, this does not change unless you try to use your skills on monsters that are either grossly higher than you, or grossly lower than you. the higher rank skills keep to the same formula and will likely as such fall off in terms of damage to ranks 8/9 and 10, but the classes prior to those ranks will never STOP truely dealing damage. it is more damage you have at your disposal, and it doesnt go away if you stop being that class. so honestly, just deal with it, get over it and move on. if you can’t do that, your just two clicks away from not having to deal with it.

#14

Dark is correct though. Mage damage dealers require massive setup through wizard ranks in order to be viable DPS at later levels. Foregoing wizard c3 will make you non-competitive and you’ll fall behind compared to other RC or WL.

W3 doesn’t have any synergy with pyro. I’d only recommend pyro if you were going linker/chrono support.

If you’re going to experiment with pyro go linker at Rank 3. Linker has amazing synergy with pyro and at least if you’re wanting to do some DPS you might as well being useful to your party.

Linker/chrono is probably the most wanted class in a party right now. Above priests and even cyro/chrono.

If you don’t want to do chrono I suggest at least going linker C2 somewhere in your build so you’ll be wanted end game.

#15

The point here is, you have a limited number of classes to be put in a limited number of spaces. You can do as you please but not all of them will work well together.

You are creating a character, you are developing a set of skills by yourself, what you have to think when doing that is: Is this skill really good or just looks like it? Can I make the class I like the most work better by adding other classes to it?

Pyro 3 has skills with reliable damage, but it was taken at a point where you didn’t have many other options. You are building your first skills there, if you have 2 or 3 skills from those ranks that you can use later on that’s good enough already. Even most Ele skills are not that good, it’s mostly about Meteor and Frost Cloud, Hail for bosses. Considerations: Flame Ground does ticks slower but lasts much longer and have lower cooldown than Frost Cloud. Fire Pillar is good but sort of hard to land and has too big CD. Fire Wall is very good at level 15, especially if used with Linkers. Fireball and Enchant Fire are OK.

The point is, you are building a skillset, there are good and bad attacks, good and bad buffs and also good and bad utility skills. You have to make a skilltree that combines all of those options to an optimal result.

#16

Man, tell me honestly, why should i spend 3 circles in pyro while 1 circle warlock can do the same thing just much better?
It’s not about correct synergize our classes, its about pyromancer and warlock doing basically the same thing but warlock being 109080x stronger.

#17

Why should you take Pyromancer 3? versus taking warlock? Because you can’t take warlock until level 225. TWO HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE. and from what i’ve heard from a lot of Warlock players, is that warlock is actually not as OP as you think it is, being only c1 at the moment, its nowhere near as strong as you think it is just yet.
Now, why should you take pyromancer 3 in general? Lv15 fireball. lv15 flame ground, level 10 flame pillar, and level 1 hell breath. After that your skills will scale off your level, and their damaging attriutes, as well as your INT, but they will never ever STOP doing damage. the only time your skills will stop doing damage is when the boss/monsters are invulnerable.

#18

Man, can you understand that maybe some people just don’t want to be a Warlock? Maybe we just want to keep playing the classes we like as the center of our build? I honestly dont care if the class is from first or the seventh circle, people should pick a class because they want to play it.
EVEN if a class takes 600 levels to be unlock it should not be stronger than the others, because someone will just don’t like the class but the same someone will have to pick it. Why? Because no one like to be weak.

#19

You don’t need to be a sorc, necro or runecaster.
If you want you could be a stupid pyromancer 3★, however you would still need to get a stupid class at rank 5.

As you don’t want to get a support one you could still get a psychokino, elementalist, cryomancer or even wizard rank. And you’ll probably regret on doing that as they won’t mix well, but it’s your choice not someone’s else.

Going linker at rank 5 could be a great choice if you go stupid pyro 3, but sadly you don’t want to be stupid support as any stupid support would do well with stupid pyro 3★ as the center of your build.

And stupid warlock wont make you “109080x stronger” take a good look at warlock skills and you’ll notice.

#20

Yes i do, or i will be outdamaged by every stupid sorc,necro or runecaster in the game, and this is not about builds bro.

1 Like