everytime when someone said co one go wizC3 they not looking at me and there more wizC3 out there.
my build now is wiz3 ele2 15shield 15sleep 150spr 70int 30con.
problem because some1 didnt even try playing so they set this class is useless.
wiz3 isn’t that bad and there a lot strong point even PVE or PVP.
with reduce cast by50% this skill add 50% to magic damage out too Meteor can hit more then 30000 even low int like me and sleep can stop mob for 15sec(free 15hits be4 mob awake) with reflect shield lv15 (9hits blocking no-cast cancel after got hit which can reflect any damage to owner)
i didnt see any problem and the build is really strong even boss
only 1 problem for Mage is a skill delay.
its not Ragnarok its Tree of savior
I couldnt agree more, as c1 pyro i once partied with a c2 wiz and was shocked that she could still overkill and oneshot mobs more than i can. it was then the greatest shock of my life, i LOLed my self.
@dysa you probably wanted to reply to another thread?
Your post is way offtopic. Your build is solid nothing special and you think you do alot of damage, but the long cooldowns make your dps go down compared to other builds.
Not saying you shouldnt play this build its freedom of choice.
@eduardo_r_gyn nice find I didnt know that.
As a subjective experience I would say its not enough with our little HP pool.
While melees get some evasion at least magic cannot be evaded. It seems out of balance.
On a sidenote, I have a lvl 144 hoplite now and I am just in demon prison as I was with my other mage character before.
With the hoplite I can stand inside a group of spiders trying to hit me like 5+ spiders.
And they will not kill me in ages with no single point in Con.
Now on the other hand when you for example enter main chamber and get surrounded by loflems as a mage it takes 3 seconds for you to freeze and die.
Thats not balance in my opinion.
True, Wizards can have the same resistence of swordsman at the cost of even lesss damage.
I build my wizard around Con and its very strong but has ofc downsides of a bit lower damage.
dear @ctdde it may be like u said. and i just want to defense this wizC3 class. many want Mage class to be more OP since they compare this game to RO but status build is not really useless until u take enough effort to it. when i see every1 talk about how this game bad and support are trash it make me want to say something. according to topic i against int increase M-def since cleric root use SPR too. all mages should be more care in defense themselves not like looking to build godlike status.
True, Wizards are niche and good at the moment even with all those problems, if they remove the buggs from it can be fairly good. Iam pretty sure hey wont be able to make every rank worth, they will lose alot of time trying to balance it.
My suggestion
- INT adjustment should based on amplification, no change is needed until end game amplification balance is known.
- DEX to reduce magical status effect duration/resistance, such as sleep, hex, froze, death sentence, etc. You can hit hard by magic without sustain, but you will not be standing still for being killed.
- Skills scale with MP usage. Every 10 STR/INT increase mana usage by 1.
Melee classes in DEX can survive with monsters doing physical/auto attack, but when against magical, they are pretty much dead.
And I disagree making INT class a single stats class when every stats needs another one to support. The STR vs CON vs DEX is more balance, because it is a triangle relationship. They should also make INT vs SPR vs DEX (RO works with DEX being cast time, but they opt for scaling unlimited level).
The current best stats as follow (PvP consideration included):
CON - defense against physical, and increase HP will help against magic. The most effective stats. Diminish return on putting too much, which makes it balance.
INT/STR - both are offensive stats, and you need this to increase damage. The effectiveness cannot be shown until higher level (~100 points difference for damage). May need slightly boost, but higher level may see bigger difference. INT has the advantage with SPR being less useful and amplification .
DEX - dodge against physical, and increase crit chance slightly. The effectiveness cannot be shown until higher level (~100 points difference for dodge, ~200 points difference for crit). Until they add some synergy against magic, as I believe higher level will have more range magic.
…
SPR - magic defense and MP. Diminish return in putting more than half. MP usage does not increase, and defense against one type.
INT vs STR vs Crit
Corrected:
- I think offensive stats are pretty much at the same level. You need ~200 points difference to see the effectiveness.
- INT has cast time, but with high amplification at higher level, it can be much stronger due to multiplication.
- STR attacks maybe stronger for now, but they also risk for being close range. Their multiplication is size, and the ratio will not be increased
- Crit being strong, but only limit to melee.
SPR vs CON vs DEX
Corrected:
- The scale of CON is crazy, most feedback from PvP are CON being very important.
- DEX is not effective against magic, but since it has offensive stats to balance itself, so it should be the least to consider
- SPR is very ineffective, particularly when amplification is not strong. There is diminish return in putting more for MP, and diminish return on limited skills. Magic defense is very strong, but being single purpose.
The power of Wiz c3 build is in overkilling stuff, but they deal much lesser overall damage when compared to other wizard class.
You keep mentioning amplification. Int does not provide it. Amp doesn’t even multiply anything. It’s just a fancy word for + max damage for magic. Its expected value is 1/2 matk. Int only provides 1.5 matk. Nothing more, nothing less. Str provides 1 min and max attack, carry weight, crit damage, and every 5 points adds 1 def. That’s why it’s better. Ignore everything else. The amount of increase seen on the stats page is the only thing I am considering when making these comparisons.
Atk can be multiplied through crit but can miss. However since crit and accuracy are on the same freaking stat, it’s never a problem.
Magic has no mechanic that multiplies its effectiveness. Only multi-hits, but atk has access to that too.
Str > Int in terms of stat balance. You’re also factoring in classes and skills, which is outside the scope of my measurement. You mention str is limited to melee but you ignore the entire archer tree. Plenty of magic is melee range: ice pike, fire ball, gust, snow rolling, zaibas, cure, heal, possession, and arguably earthquake.
Idk why you attempted to correct my defensive stat balance when it’s exactly the same as yours.
Increase magical amplification means you are hitting closer to 100% all the time, which is better than crit. And I suppose higher rank will have more range attack.
It is more than the order, it is the efficiency that I included within. Regardless, SPR should be a stats between CON and DEX, and it should be closer to CON, as it does not do damage. Perhaps they can make Heal scales with it.
Increase mamp doesn’t mean hitting closer to 100%. With 0 mamp, you are ALWAYS hitting 100%. With 30 mamp, you hit anywhere from 100%+0 to 100%+30 at random. It is literally max magic attack damage. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s comparable to max physical attack damage, like the thing you see on bows, blunts, swords.
Mamp is NOT comparable to crit. Mamp is random additive damage. Crit is multiplicative, x1.5. Plus crit also adds your crit atk damage. Go see the damage formula thread if you don’t believe me. Increase in rank has no effect to mamp, crit rate, crit damage, or whatever this “range attack” you claim exists.
What? Order? Efficiency? Double angle brackets means nothing mathematically.
“Should be” is a very strong and opinionated statement. I believe what you are trying to say is SPR should be the counterpart to CON like how INT is the counterpart to STR. Right now, con>spr and str>int, which hurts magic classes. Having heal scale with spr would only be useful if clerics do not have the passive 1.5x sp recovery compared to other classes. For the same reason that swordsmen should not have 3.3x more base hp than all the other classes. It enables them to use their intended stat, sp for clerics and hp for swordies, without any investment into their stats. Also, that’s just one skill. Not even remotely enough to offset the balance between stats.
That is not true, you are hitting 0% with 0 mamp.
That would mean you’d never do any damage with 0 amp. 0% of anything is 0.
exdarklight is right. with 100 magic attack and 30 amp you’ll hit anywhere from 100 to 130 damage.
Read the link I post. It explains amplification.
It adds to the damage.
There is no mathematical term for that purpose, but you can assume:
CON > v1 > DEX > ve2 > SPR
v1 is an integer, where it represents the effectiveness between CON and DEX
v2 is an integer, where it represents the effectiveness between DEX and SPR
The difference between CON > DEX > SPR and CON > v1 > DEX > v2 > SPR is the minimum case being bigger.
You’re talking to the guy that helped reverse-calculate the damage formula for the entire game (give or take a few rare modifiers I still need to take into account like Defense Ignore properties)
That thread you linked is correct. That is how magic amp works. But you seem to have misinterpreted it, or are at the very least wording your standpoint incredibly badly.
Say you have 100 attack. According to your reply, with 0 amp, you’d hit 0 on everything, because 0% of 100 is 0. Which is obviously not how amp works. It’s 0 to 100% of the AMP stat, and makes no percentual modifications to your attack power. Exdarklight had it right and is not contradicting the link you posted.
See my full suggestion from my original post. That was just a quick response if you really like to pick on individual thing. It is very unfortunate that I have no time to write a 100 page of comprehensive suggestion. I can only try to make people understand my point of view, but I am not trying to go into detail.
Perhaps I see his point, but he is combining both STR and DEX to compare with INT. The additional of amplification would make the comparison of STR and INT more in line, unless you are adding crit rate with STR. I think the amplification will be enough to balance between STR and INT.
I do agree with that. Adding Magic Amplification to the INT stat would indeed make it equal in a sense to STR which grants Critical Attack.
Int should not give magic defense to answer the original question: SPR does that, and should be its main draw, but isnt because it gives only 0.25 MDEF per SPR. That’s a horrendously low amount and should really be a lot higher to be worth anything.
Another problem with SPR is that, skill does not scale on MP usage. This means you can have low SPR with cloth to compensate, and make SPR only useful to buff/debuff class (not even all buff are SPR based).
However, I tried pure SPR, it seems I am not getting any magical status effect at low level (up to level 70). I wish either this goes to DEX, or magic amplification defense goes to DEX, so that DEX has some synergy with magic for a triangle relationship (INT vs SPR vs DEX).