Tree of Savior Forum

**ing bat nerf why

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#1

Why do you have to remove everything fun from this game? Throughout ToS’s history IMC systematically nerfed and messed up most classes, only to make balance even worse in the process, but at least I could have an awesome huge cloud of bats. Now even that’s being removed. Sorc3 has always been one of the weakest circles in the game, but even so IMC felt the need to remove the fun selling point it had, lots of bats.

And a 1 minute duration too even though bats still self-destruct, since skill points reduce the cooldown instead of adding bats, which is a practical nerf as well as a fun nerf. Using the same mechanics as other summons could stop micro dimension cloning from working at all - which is likely since there’s no purpose for this nerf other than stopping me from having lots of bats at once (even though bats ran fine on my old, slower computer before the optimization, and the whole game performs much better now).

That top journal ranker who quit in closed beta when they nerfed bokors was right. Neet Grita was right to bail out. The friend who quit saying the game was unplayable without constant resets was right, and so were the ones who quit over their favorite classes sucking. So were the previous two guild leaders and all the members who quit after various other things ruined the game, and so was that other sorc-sage I met in town while playing with bats, who quit months ago. ToS is unplayable for any purpose other than having a chat room with avatars and collecting outfits.

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#2

I just want them to stop adding skills that change its duration or reduce its cooldown by 1 second per skill point, I find it incredibly inefficient for certain skills, like the ones that have long cooldowns or short durations even if you maxed them.

Like in the case for these bats, It’s now a 1 point wonder, but if it reduced the cooldown by like… 3 seconds per point then it’d be worth investing in (maybe).

As for the amount of bats, maybe they could just add a circle 3 attribute that doubles the amount of bats or whatever number they deem balanced.

#3

It would be good to have an attribute that keeps the current mechanics (additional bat per skill point, no duration limit, clonable by sages). I’d accept that attribute even if it did less damage than the 5 bat version.

I agree about the awkwardness of cooldown reducing skill points, especially on skills that weren’t designed for it to begin with.

#4

This is the part I most agree with. They change far too much everytime, and make their players kinda beg for resets like we don’t deserve it.

#6

I love cat buffs thoughhhh

#7

You are talking about “fun” aspect of huge cloned cloud of bats, but didnt mention that it lags the hell out of everyone else, breaks UI for other players and who knows what else.

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#8

Oh gosh, why people cry before see the rework? It was just a development talk, this could change and improve the bats usage. Stop making trash forum topics.

#9

Do you even realize what you are saying. You are normalizing the shittiness of the game.

Why not make the game not lag as hell when there are more than 10 objects on screen?
Why not make bats not break the UI instead of castrating the skill?

#10

Have you ever considered that sometimes, when the problem is caused by “too much something”, the only sensible solution is to cull that something?

#11

You’re completely right, but the recent optimization patches did it. I tested bat clouds on a 2009 CPU with a 2008 video card and it ran smoothly, and other players confirmed mere diev statues had a bigger effect on performance than bats. If I wanted to lag someone I’d make laima statues instead.

Having “lots of something” is indeed a core game feature in an MMO. The UI thing is that there’s a 99 NPC draw limit (you can lower that in the config files too) and when it goes over the limit it stops drawing some mobs. I can still interact with NPCs when it happens but there’s temporary graphical glitches. The sensible solution would be hiding non-hostile players’ spawns, which would handle other stuff like necroswarms and the one summoned boss getting in the way of clickables (how to make challenge mode parties mad: sit your boss on the portal).

Obvious trolling but if anyone waited until afterwards they’d be blamed for not providing feedback on the feedback forum before it was too late. “See the rework” brings up my larger point: recklessly reworking classes in ways that weren’t thought out carefully has been one of the game’s biggest problems and caused a lot of quitting.

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#12

Like the culling of 22 possible zombies down to 8…

Now Sorcerers Bats are also reduced by 2/3 and people cry, although those bats do not affect any other skills.
Bokor took a huge hit on the sustainability of Damballa and the hit box of Bwa Kayiman with these cullings.

If the damage for the familiar bats stays the same, there is no difference in the performance at all.

#13

Except they scale with spirit now.

Sorc3 needs help, I think the bigger concern is making it even more complex as far as stats goes because now summon HP scales with con rather than spr and so on.

I dunno, seems a little weird to complain that you can’t run around in a giant cloud when there are so many other things that can afford to be fixed…

#14

Idr if bats are targetable or not, but due to the tab target nature of this game, huge hordes become hard to target, now Idt they should be lowering all the summons, but for the bats it’s kind of overboard, that’s cool but if they are targetable it’s a huge PvP advantage just off the tab target nature of the game. They should probably be fixing the targeting rather than nerfing this skill. However this doesn’t really change the identity of the class too much.

If they were an actively damaging summon and they got nerfed there would be more to complain about, but all this does is change the aesthetics of the skill and it still keeps a large amount of bats. The main thing this skill does is provide ridiculous game abusing protection. (I think, like I said, although I learned a lot about bats they weren’t really relevant to me so I’ve kind of forgotten it.)

Assuming it doesn’t defend the Sorc however then it’s really just the aesthetic changing right? Your PC may be able to handle it but others can’t and it’s not like you don’t still have a horde, it’s just more reasonable. If they lowered it to 1 I could understand the complaint but 5 is still lots.

#15

NO bats pls, MY FRIEND gave me gem for it and i was just looking for fine gloves…pls dont nerf bats anymore

#16

I thought it said that they gained additional HP according to your own.
I remember people saying Summons die way too fast in higher content, wouldn’t this just make it much worse?

Either their wording is weird, or I fail to grasp it, but you might be right, seems like they’ll take an HP nerf.

#17

I wouldn’t call it a ‘‘nerf’’ yet. Perhaps for the fun aspect sure. But before fully making a judgement I’ll wait out until it’s at least in ktest to see what its like fully.

I hope there’s a way to increase the number of bats… I guess I’d be fine with just 5 if sage duplication actually would work properly so that they dont disappear right after original is gone.

Most than anything I hope the skill doesn’t become a one pointer. Other than that the changes seem very positive for the class as a whole.

#18

Bokor is a perfect example of the problem. I’ll once again highlight the guy I mentioned who was a top ranker in beta and quit, never to return, when they nerfed bokor. After all this time they still haven’t fixed it. I tried zombie bokor in the previous round of resets and used the current resets to send that character back to rank 1. RIP to a class that could’ve been great.

Offensively, when the sorc deals or takes damage, a bat chases the enemy, so they’re semi-automatic. Trying to multi-hit enemies to get lots of bats moving is fun gameplay. Defensively, bats are the same as normal mobs and the sorc is just like an elite monster that has lots of small mobs around itself. Bats have hp, can die, and can be cc’d or blocked with barriers, so the same tactics used against elite mobs work. Bats can also be cleared by making them self-destruct, like sending an ausrine’d cata to rush the sorc, causing the bats hit hit him.

5 is a tiny, pathetic sprinkling of bats. I was mostly focusing on aesthetics, which would be ruined with just 5, but I should’ve mentioned 5 bats aren’t enough for defending against attacks like corsair’s iron hook. And one more thing, more bats are important for breaking objects that take 1 damage per hit.

As for targeting in general, mouse mode targeting has been a problem all along and they still haven’t even fixed clicking on things like warp statues in town with those microscopic hitboxes at the bottom/feet of clickables, and improved tab prioritization would help both mouse and keyboard modes.

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#19

To IMC,

As a Sorcerer main since beta, I am not bothered at all by this change and am happy with it. Thank you IMC for making a good change.

Signed,
Crevox

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#20

tbh this is what i want since i first played sorc back in 2016

but now, what if i just want 1 bat if i only alotted 1 skill point to the skill?