Tree of Savior Forum

Increasing Viability of Swordsman

@haukinyau and @Lenny

Yeah there are truths in both what you say. Currently the topic I posted address the part which personally I feel is the fundamental problem of swordsman. Being not able to land a hit due to mechanics. Yes I too feel that damage needs to be increased too but I think it will come in later once we can effectively hit the target we want to.

Right now sad to say it is very hard, even for bash which has a big arc it is already hard. In that 0.5 sec the opponent can just wait forwards to get to your back and you hit nothing, even if bash deals over 9000 damage.

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but they won’t change it and if they do, it will take like 2 years for that, we need to think about real solutions, thats why i keep saying to increase dmg, skills range, defense, etc. thats something they can do soon (2-3 months?)

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add to the list

huge balance issues between builds

build diversity is ā– ā– ā– ā– 

spear builds outclass sword builds in terms of burst and dps. There is no finestra buff for swords (barb should get that instead of frenzy spell), there are no sword based class attributes that make certain classes benefit from using sword. Cataphract gets more block penetration when using 2h spears, Dragoon gets more damage to large monsters when using 2h spears.
HIDDEN (rank 7) class is pure spear/pierce based which is completely retarded design since there is already spear/pierce based rank7 class: Dragoon.

not to mention that IMC competently forgot about DUAL WIELD builds… they tried to make Corsair as the first step into DUAL WIELD builds and then they completely scrapped that idea with next classes.

Rank8 completely shits on sword builds. One is spear (what a surprise) and other is tank class. Heck I bet that Murmilo (tank class) will make all offensive 1handed/dual wield look like garbage.

sword weapons are way way weaker than spears. It can be seen specially in terms of 1 handed versions

spears give you increased attack ranged
spears increase damage to medium/large targets
lots of spears give tons of solid flat stats or additional effects that have synergy with spear based builds

while swords… specially 1 handed one… are pathetic. Lots of sword give critical damage BUT why? sword based classes have no way to increase they critical chance to benefit from those swords that give critical chance. Same goes for sword that give evasion… why? beside ā€œguardianā€ you have no chance to get bonus evasion and soon ā€œguardianā€ will be pure tank build spell and no one with sane mind will use that spell in DPS build… the only class that actually can increase evasion is Fencer but Fencer don’t even use swords but rapiers (that are million times better than 1 handed sword btw)
swords don’t have any unique bonus effects just like spears. they don’t increase damage vs certain size monsters, they don’t increase your range… nothing

tl;dr spear builds > tank builds > offensive sword/dual wield builds

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ok u are right, 9999 dmg and 2 dmg are the same, now i have to sleep cus i’m tired

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The fastest temporary bandaid IMC can do to relieve this is to drastically reduce the startup animation and increase the hitbox of many of the skills in various swordsman classes. The reduced startup can be balanced with the ā€œrecoilā€ of the skill after it hits.

While this bandaid is in effect, we can then see how swordsman will fare against the other classes and then re-balance the range and damage.

We don’t need fanciful startup. It is like striking various poses before even attacking. We need fast and effective attacks that opponents cannot easily dodge manually cuz it already takes a lot of risk just to get close to a monster/player.

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ET is a stop-gap measure. Cuz the players level too fast, out of the expectations of IMC. Even for ET I feel it is poorly implemented, ruling out many classes in the higher floors of ET.

This game needs lots of work to balance. Sometimes I do hope that IMC will take what we suggest into consideration in their balancing and improvement of the game.

2 Likes

problem is

many cant run tos after patch
party still broken
game lags even moar
trump related graphics censored
exploits?
others

i feel bad for swordies but u gotta queue
huehuehue


actually to sum it up ā€œwait ktos fully merge into itosā€

One of the reasons I think IMC face for 1handed swords is the weapon itself can be equipped by 3 of the base classes. This alone makes it hard to balance as any statues bestowed to a 1hand sword might be perfectly balanced for swordsman but OP for the other 2 classes.

But I do agree with you, swordsman need more 1 hand sword love, if not why the heck they are called swordsman in the first place. Perhaps when new content is out we get to see more attributes and 1 hand swords catered to our melee warriors.

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but they had months to fix it, dude u can’t fck with the warrior, a lot of ppl play warrior in mmo’s, if they fck with the warrior ppl will quit. warriors don’t care about trump costume and warriors have a lot of gold from theirs adventures to spend on warrior stuff

jokes aside, they are losing a lot of players that like to play warrior
now what u said is true, some stuff is more important, but they had MONTHS and kTOS to see the problems before we do

If I remember correctly, IMC said they will bring some Plate armors exclusively for Swordman. This can apply to 1-hand sword as well.

Problem solved

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Not, this Is not right, 9999 dmg vs 2 dmg is more than 10x.

Even 2 dmg and 9999 dmg can 1hit kill monster, when come to kill boss or pvp 9999 dmg is still too much compare agian 2 dmg.

If this is happen, it call unbalance.

Using skills while moving would help greatly in PVP. That’s part of why Cataphract and Doppel are the only real PVP-viable Swordsman classes, you can use Rush and Cyclone (with attribute) while moving so enemies can’t just move away from you constantly and kite in circles around a frost cloud or whatever.

However most Swordsman classes suffer from a simpler problem, which is they just don’t do enough damage for the drawbacks of their skills. Most Swordsman skills are on long cooldowns, they have tight melee range hitboxes, and they take too long to execute (which is partially related to being unable to use them while moving, but just being locked into an animation for a long time even if you can move is detrimental). On top of all that, most Swordsman skills have a pitiful multihit and no/low damage modifiers, so they scale abysmally. When you get to rank 7 you basically do no damage with your lower rank Swordsman skills because of this, while other classes continue to benefit from many of their lower rank skills because even if they do less damage they still scale enough to be worthwhile.

Also, weapon requirements combined with the lack of scaling on so many low rank classes means that very few Swordsman builds make sense. You end up being locked into a specific advancement track unless you want to just forget your early rank classes entirely - and despite all this, Swordsmen are often faced with awkward advancements where they either require a filler rank that won’t add much of anything to their build, or they have to go backwards and take a lower rank class, because nothing else makes sense due to weapon/mount requirements.

On my Archer I prefer two-handed bows. Neither rank 7 class uses two-handed bows, which is a shame - but I’m not suddenly completely ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  with my build, because I can just go Cannoneer and use a crossbow, even if it’s not my ideal choice. Meanwhile on my Corsair, I’m just ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  at rank 8 - Corsair has to dual wield and has to be on foot for most of their skills, and the rank 8 class choices are a mounted class and a shield class. Maybe they release a hidden class that requires sword+dagger for its skills - I’m still ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– , because I have two ranks of Hoplite so now I’m giving up Finestra and Spear Lunge if I want to advance to that class. This is a uniquely Swordsman problem.

4 Likes

Mate, it took them literally MONTHS to see subzero shield a problem, and many more MONTHS for them to acknowledge stone skin is a problem

Up til now they only fix stone skin. I’m waiting till the time they acknowledge that 15 seconds sleep and 5 seconds freeze is a problem. Maybe a year from now.

And by then, maybe, just maybe, that they will acknowledge that swordman mobility is a problem.

2 Likes

Personally, i don’t really think SW need more dps.

IMO what should be done instead of offering SWs more damage migation attributes. Let SWs do pvp/pve by doing decent damage but being able to soak up tons of damage. SWs having only, lets say, half the dps of other classes and being melee wouldn’t be a problem if instead they had double or triple the survivability.

For example : Pain Barrier, a skill every SW can put points in, could get buffed so it reduces all incoming damage by a certain % (50%?) aswell as Pain Barrier removing the flinch/stop-when-being-hit-effect. It would make SWs life in pvp easier (able to go into melee range while taking reduced damage) aswell as pve (reduced dmg = less healing stress and less complaints from clerics about having to keep a melee alive).