Tree of Savior Forum

In leu of druid and exorcist - what do we do with Plague doctor now?

Well… you can’t blame a damage class to do what it is supposed to do. And it depends on which kind of mobs are you resting your scenario on. Yes, early stages of Challenge Modes, low levels of Earth Tower and Saalus/Dungeon this can be true, but as CM and ET goes up, I’m pretty sure you can find room for your damages.

And, TBH, for iTOS scenario right now, it should be kind of a bless to not have to cast your PD damage skills and burn your SP all the time with easy to kill mobs. Just find room for your other classes’ skills. As an example, this is what I do with my Pyro3 Kino3 Sage2 - I can either burn my mana down with Sage skills on easy-to-kill mobs, or I can combine Pyro and Kino skills during these moments and save my sanity. I will let you guess wich one I prefer haha

You can’t, but Rank10 is right at the corner, we can expect it to hit iTOS within 2 months or less. You can have Druid2 PD2 if you want, or even Druid1 for cheap support and go all out PD3. Just think on possible combinations, it is not that hard.

Again, you are expecting a support-oriented class to be better in damage than a damage-oriented class. But I could gamble and say that this build right there, soloing CM, would be accepted for velcoffer too.

Note: if you want to party Velcoffer with Meta Rangers, then you have to play those Meta rules. Once you go out of it, you will see that there are rooms for a lot of things. Just think on party composition.

that’s exactly why I’m worried. if it isn’t hard, then it’ll come down to maximizing DPS to get it over and done with as quickly as possible. Why should I bring a supportive class if no support is going to be necessary? Especially if it’s niche support such as curing/preventing ailments?

I’m not expecting it to be better at dealing damage. I’m expecting the class to play to its strength and niche. Why pick PD for these builds when other options can achieve the result the build is intended for, and fit in better? I’m not concerned with PD dealing more damage, I’m concerned with what its purpose is. What does it do better than any other choice and why is there a reason to take it beyond subjective personal enjoyment of the class?

Yes a lot of those builds will perform fine, but how optimal is the synergy? In a really great build, every part in the build should have a good reason to be there, right down to filler.

So far the answer seems to be for bloodletting or disenchant. Maybe I just don’t understand the value of disenchant yet, so I’m having trouble figuring out why people seem to value it so highly? I’ll have to add this skill to my PD first chance I can get a reset.

Also, Druid 2 PD 2 seems like a waste of potentially getting C3 in either and locks you out of the ability to take Exorcist 3 at rank 10.

You can check the video and see how the synergy goes. Heck, it is so good that it can even solo CM quite easily.

Ok, lets go…

Damage spectrum
–Incineration: to use lastly, when you have debuffs already applied
–Black Death Steam: primary damage source for the class alone

Support spectrum
–Healing Factor: let 1 character virtually invincible (give it to the healer, to the tanker, or to the most fragile in your party)
–Bloodletting: debuffs protection
–Fumigate: remove debuffs already applied. Either this or bloodletting, we could say you can choose which one you prefer (but not receiving a debuff is better than removing it later)
–Pandemic: spread debuffs. So think about that poison from Wugushi that didn’t get to all mobs, then you can make it happen. Now expand your thinking to other possible DoTs/debuffs. Obviously you will combo it with your own skills, but it can also do other stuff than only that
–Beak Mask: your own protection
–Disenchant: use it on bosses to lessen defenses. I can see it being a terror on PvP
–Methadone: knockdown, knockback and cast protection. You want more?

Now tell us the build you are thinking of, then we can help you with building this. There are quite a good amount of options already shown that can give you good results. Sorry if PD is not a meta class anymore, but it doesn’t make it any less of a class than, lets say, Oracle, which is really bad right now (if we look only at the Cleric tree). Honestly it looks like you are searching for reasons to dislike PD and be “frustrated” (get it… cause “frustratedsquirrel” haha)

everything you’ve just gone over in this post, I’ve already covered earlier on in the thread in detail as to why PD’s kit isn’t all that amazing.

  • healing factor : druid grass makes your WHOLE party basically (and literally if they are using Stera Trofh) invincible, not just one member.
  • Fumigate: not all that useful, Cure and Exorcist can remove status ailments too. Ailments often aren’t dangerous enough to be worth worrying about too much in most areas of the game outside of PVP.
  • Pandemic: the list of debuffs you can actually spread are very small. It doesn’t even spread bleeding. This is mostly going to be used to spread wugushi poisons and Hexing, but wugushi poisons don’t stack with themselves and their AOE is already so strong (not counting flying mobs in which case it’s nice) that most of the time you’re not ‘helping’ as much as you think.
  • Beak Mask: why bother when you’re using Bloodletting anyway? Because it blocks lv 3? It’s really specific and mostly only benefits the PD. Strong in PvP again, but I usually don’t even take this skill.
    Disenchant and Methadone: these two are good skills, but I still think Methadone is iffy due to its low duration, high CD, and the fact that Exo gets a similar skill even if the duration is a lot less (you mostly only use methadone during high CC boss phases anyway and time it well, which is why you rarely see PD’s take more than one point in it.)

I mean ideally if I had my way, I would continue playing my Sadhu3 PD and be done with it, but I feel now that build is just wasted potential when I could finish it off with Exo and be much more effective with a similar playstyle and thematic. I’m considering switching to Bokor 3 or Paladin 3 to take advantage of PD’s most unique traits and strengths without being entirely outclassed. The Paladin build so far seems to be the best, because ticking dots + sanctuary seems to be making good use of both class’s benefits and provides something useful to the party, as well as being able to manipulate resistances really heavily with disenchant, hexing and conviction all in the same build.

This is wrong unless you are dealing with elitist pricks, and the vast majority of groups are not going to be this picky.

Again, Healing Factor is not ‘niche’, it is INVALUABLE. It is REALLY GOOD.

Preventing ailments in an instance that revolves around a global curse/erosion isn’t niche, it is REALLY GOOD.

You are worried about something that isn’t a thing.

Again, you are comparing with the most broken class circle atm, Druid2. I already said this before and you seems to insist in this comparison. Druid2 does what a lot of inferior circles do and it is kind of a general feeling that it is too much. Druid2 Exo2 is not broken because of exorcist, it is broken because of Druid and people are considering going Druid3 Exo2 for Rank10 than Exo3 path. If you keep comparing with Druid2, you will find a lot more classes than only PD that are completely outshined by it. I suggest you to go Druid2 then.

Nobody uses Cure for status removal, and even so it removes rank1 only. Exorcist’s Gregorate cannot be a reliable source of debuff removal due to its cooldown, it removes only rank2 debuffs (attribute on C3 will remove rank3) and it is a 1 time only use. Bloodletting and Disenchant will always be better at it, and you can argue that Bloodletting is better than Fumigate, but I said it to you.

Yes, we agree on that. But it is still useful for you damage department.

It is only for you, and it is amazing to use for yourself. Max out? Maybe not. Few points? Great to consider. We agree that is better for PvP, and even that we don’t play it (at least I don’t), it is a scenario you should consider for its usage, as you already have other 2 (bloodletting and fumigate) for PvE scenario.

Again, you look like you are finding how to doom Plague Doctor, not how you can use these skills. They can be niche with this whole debuff-control characteristic? Yes. But I bet you will not find a better class that can do it better.

How is Healing Factor so invaluable when most parties are going to be standing in druid grass 100% of the time?

And I don’t care about being rejected by groups, I care about knowing I’ve built my main based around the strong points the class offers, and have made good decisions there.

Are you saying that bloodletting will protect your party from Velcoffer’s global erosion? Isn’t that a unique debuff?

Well yeah, but druid 2 exists, and until it gets nerfed, which I don’t think it will (functionally at least, it might get a numbers nerf here and there, but I doubt they’d reroll the healing/damage provided by grass placement so soon) then we have to compare it to other things. I already have druids c3 and c2 in other characters, I want to make a build that really features plague doctor as my main, that’s why I’m looking for ways to make it stand out and fit into the current meta with a build that is distinctly plague doctor focused.

It seems though, if people really do appreciate fumigate and disenchant so much that they would take a plague doctor C3 Sadhu C3 to velcoffer instead of another exorcist/druid/kabbalist, then I only need to reset my skills and fit those two into my build somewhere, or ideally rank reset to a sanctuary build with paladin, since that seems like a generally helpful build with some fun mechanics.

But I don’t know, it still seems somehow very unsatisfying.

It helps against some of the effects of the global curse. I use prophecy there on my oracle and even that helps.

Druid grass isn’t some 100% uptime invulnerability zone, sterea has a cooldown and a short duration, and the grass heals for a little bit but not nearly to the level of factor.

The whole point of support is to offer a safety net. In ideal cases it isn’t needed, but when things go badly it can save the run.

Druid grass is absolutely 100% uptime, at lv 10 it already lasts for 1 second longer than its cooldown. A lv 10 Chortasmata has a recovery rate of 870 for multiple party members while Healing Factor at lv 10 has a rating of 150 for one person. There’s no comparing the effectiveness of this ‘support’ difference in terms of healing.

Sterea Trofh at lv 5 lasts for 10 seconds, which is more than enough time to fully heal/regenerate a party and survive through tricky situations, with only 20 seconds of downtime, which can also be rotated with safety wall and Mackangdal, (which is mitigated self-damage through sterea trofh)

that is on a full offense Exorcist C2 Druid C3 Bokor btw, who is filling the DPS party slot while still providing all of this. So where is all my amazing support for picking Plague Doctor over Exorcist and losing out on Rubric damage? Bloodletting? It just doesn’t seem like a fair trade to me.

Still, if bloodletting can prevent some of the decay in Velcoffer then I guess that is pretty good. I was assuming it wouldn’t help at all since it’s a unique debuff.

This statement makes me think you don’t actually play a PD, nor have you ever. Do you understand how Healing Factor works in the actual game?

I stated that it isnt 100% uptime invulnerability.

Done trying to convince you that PD is good, go play exo

Yes, as I said before, PD is my main. I know how Healing Factor works, and I also know how druid works, having a c3 druid. Grass is better as a regen, easily.

wow, ok yeah we are done here. I can’t even

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I mean that’s fine, it’s not like you were terribly helpful anyway, other than trying to insult my intelligence and tell me how PD is absolutely fine without offering any particularly convincing arguments. Other posts have been far more useful and I’m not going to miss your input.

870 > 150 you heard it here 1st folks. lol

lets completely ignore that one is a flat heal and one is boosting HP recovery

Unless you have a large investment in CON, the flat heal from grass is going to be better, and furthermore it affects your entire party, not just one person. Between druid grass, aukuras being up 100% of the time, party being linked and priests using mass heal and the tanks buffed up on ein sof, why would you even need healing factor anyway? I often completely forget to cast it when doing CM’s with my guild because it’s so negligible and there’s way too much healing going on anyway for it to matter.

This is my biggest gripe, ailment removal, and self-healing just don’t matter enough to be satisfying hooks for this class in the current state of the game outside of PVP.

Do you usually run Velco with people who have 20k HP? Do you run Velco at all?

oh yeah i forgot every party has all these by default

using challenge modes to compare effectiveness of skills is a terrible idea

Forgot this reply when I did for the skills comparison you created.

Again, Engkrateia last for 6s only, with attribute, and only for yourself, with 30s cooldown. Methadone lasts 16s for your whole party with only 1 point of investiment and with 40s cooldown. You are so wrong when you compare both. One is tricky and only for the player (Engkrateia - on a damage class) and the other is easier to cast, last longer and for the whole party (Methadone - on a support class). If you think that it is not good enough, then you should talk with every single player that uses 3x Gazing Golem cards.

I will end my attempts here too - I’m trying to give you good reasons to use Plague Doctor, but you simply care to condem the class to failure. Why would you want to main a Plague Doctor if you can only find downsides? You seem to not even enjoy playing or attempting to do one. You better stick with what you think is better than Plague Doctor and play with what you think will be better.

PD is good. You are not willing to try it.

I know you generally have about 100 con when doing Velco, yes, but at that point it really doesn’t matter what’s healing you anymore. And no, I am still preparing for Velcoffer, hence the interest in PD’s niche there.

Every party I’ve been with in either ET, CMs or Raid have had one or multiple of those things. I imagine Velcoffer is no different.

And why is that? People’s health starts to drop at CM6 and up, so it’s still one of the few types of content where healing and team support is actually necessary.