Tree of Savior Forum

In leu of druid and exorcist - what do we do with Plague doctor now?

Class and Rank Cleric
#1

Something that’s been bugging me ever since Exorcist came out and the druid buffs came through - Plague Doctor is pretty heavily outclassed as an offensive caster option, and many of the old offensive Plague Doctor builds are done better by Exorcist. Exorcist also has some similar supporting moves to PD, being able to strip away ailments all the way up to lv 3, while the bulk of Plague Doctor’s non-offensive contribution revolves also around removing or preventing ailments.

This basically means that PD’s niche as a class depends on the unique things it can contribute to distinguish it from Exorcist which I believe are as follows. So what exactly does the class offer to justify picking it over Exorcist/Druid core?

PD’s bloodletting can prevent status ailments, which is not that big of a deal in PVE, but more useful in PVP. Prevention is better than cure in some cases but this still seems unimpressive.

Pandemic allows the wide area spread of Hexing for Bokor builds, which is something Exo can’t really do. Sadly there aren’t too many other ailments worth spreading. Can’t even do a spicy monk doctor build because for some reason, pandemic can’t spread bleeding.

Healing factor is a great survival ability for solo play but not really something you pick an entire class for, especially since exo/druid can just stand in grass and be basically unkillable anyway.

Disenchant is powerful in PVP but pretty much useless in PVE. It’s also never guaranteed to work even at max level which just doesn’t feel good.

I made a similar thread over on reddit and the general consensus seemed to be that PD’s place is in PVP as a specialty, but as someone who really enjoys the theme and playstyle of Plague Doctor but isn’t really interested in PVP, that’s a really unsatisfying answer. I was hoping to start the discussion here where IMC might have a better chance of seeing it and maybe considering giving PD some quality of life changes further down the road to strengthen their identity as a class.

How do you make your Plague Doctor stand out? What niche does it fill and why would you pick PD3 over Exorcist in any given situation? I’m likely going to reset my PD next chance I get, and I’d like to use a build that really makes use of the class’s unique and useful traits. I just feel like Exo took over a lot of the PD’s identity as a caster cleric build finisher.

#2

I think PD became a filler class now. I play TBL, and a haven’t seen any PD3 ever since the latest patch hot iTOS. Maybe because PD’s damage is inferior to others. Look at Incineration and BDS scaling.

#3

Yeah, that seems to be the case. PD1 for status ailment prevention and healing factor, but that just seems so…lame for it to end up regulated to filler, because as a filler I feel like it doesn’t really offer much at only circle 1. No death steam and a very weak incinerate, limited pandemic spread, it’s kind of sad even as a filler.

How about the old PD > Pardoner synergy? maybe a full SPR build, using dots as delivery for priest buffs? Too bad Exocist still does this better thanks to Aqua Benedicta and PD has nothing that scales with SPR.

#4

It’s not only Plague Doctor.
The Druid buff pretty much made all Cleric C5/6/7 Classes obsolete, even Kabbalist and Oracle.

That’s because unlike Kabbalist and Plague Doctor which have to sacrfice at least 2 Circles of a Rank 8 Class (meaning they can max being Circle 2 +Circle 2 or Circle 3+ Circle1) at Rank 10 for a subpar performance.

Not only has Druid a self-built-in stat boost via Transform + attributes, it also provides AoE Heal & invulnerability, AoE damage and CC in cases where it’s useful.

Kabbalist, Plague Doctor and Oracle can’t really provide much more, they all have 1-2 unique skills, but their effects are pretty limited in a game that has skill scrolls, dispellers and triggers Gevurah and Double Chance on autoattacks.

In my opinion, the boosts were over the top, you can have 100% invulnerability uptime with 2 Druid C2s in the party combined with Diev C1,
they can be full INT and still reach over 90k HP because of large transformation HP boost
they have Chortasmata which won’t be destroyed or reversied that both heals allies and damages enemies.
And at C3 they get free 75% + uptime on 30% matk boost and 10% magic damage bonus via Henge Stone, which will make Druid C3 very popular for Rank 10.

Carnivory post-buff also is stronger[in terms of damage per effective CD period] than Black Death Steam and way cheaper to attribute.
It also has a larger default AoE and lower CD time, so it’s more useful for farming.

#5

PD was always nice, it was always a better pick than his counterpart, Kabbalist. This one got changes that now justify some investment and stand against PD as a reasonable choice too.

Druid is unreal. Chortasmata went from a “supportive skill to not let druid useless without grass” to an extremely needed skill with heal and damage, plus 2 new damage skill. It sure put Druid into the damage role it has to be, but the healing effect is too much imo.

It is hard to compare when Druid can pretty much do what a lot of inferior classes combination can do with just 2 circles.

Exorcist has to be a good damage dealer, this is what it is meant to do. Rubric deserves just an increase in cool down, then I guess the class will be balanced.

PD is nice as it is. The problem lay on Druid, more than even on Exorcist. Druid is packing a lot of classes all together

#6

Yea, as much as I love PD, I really cannot think of a reason to use it, other than blood letting.

Healing factor can be substituted by druid’s chrotasmata. Black death steam, incinerate is a wide range DoT that consumes alot of SP and doesn’t heal you like chrotasmata does.

Edit: seems like the only PD3 build that is still quite high in ranking is cleric2-diev3-miko-PD3, I assume it’s full SPR? Why do you guys think that’s the case?

#7

That only works for pd1, since DE starts to get unreliable or downright counterproductive when you use it alongside condi spreading mechanics (Pandemic or incin attributes) since it can overwrite longer duration debuffs with non-de duration debuffs.

Full spr can’t offer enough dmg via blessing at the moment, but Transmit Prana and Sanctuary can do just that.
Ofc Sanctuary needs insane gear, but it does have a niche since it has far fewer issues hitting flying enemies. (and offers a good amount of support as well)
Sadhu+pd has always been good, and transmit prana is at least noticeable on such a build.

And don’t forget that Bokor3/Pd3 is still very potent due to damballa and has no issues in incorporating it within it’s dmg rotations unlike exo builds.

PD3 is also still a potent option for spr builds like Diev3/miko and bokor3. But it’s arguably a worse choice than either exo2 or zealot2 for those. But it’s still good enough.

I think incin+bds could use a bit more skill factor tbh, but they’re far from dead.

#8

IMC will never be able to balance classes when 98% of the game content is oriented towards one single thing: achieveing the highest dps you can.

There will always be a class that’s better at doing this one thing and other classes will be temporarily forgotten until they are “reworked”. This is a really toxic vicious cycle.

IMC also fails at giving classes good utility or support skills so classes like Oracle are just for the lols.

Plague Doctor is supposed to be a mid-ground between offensive and defensive, giving resistances to debuffs and dealing moderate dmg. However, resistance to debuff is pretty useless at PvE therefore we instantly assume it’s a “worse” class than a purely dps class like Exorcist. IMC can go and buff up PD to deal more than than exorcist, but that would be just plain stupid imo.

What I’d like to see is a rework for endgame content so it would actually make sense having a hybrid defensive/offensive class and losing some dps would acatually be a reasonable trade for having more durability (i.e. through healing factor) and debuff resistance/immunity.

Velcoffer is a nice attempt at that, but still not enough content to justify such builds.

4 Likes
#9

All that Velcoffer did is destroy Kabbalist Class because meta-cancers want you to waste a slot in the party for a C3>Priest3>Kabbalist3, which is totally useless outside of Velcoffer Nest, and just a tool in Velcoffer Nest, it’s not even required unless people are too stupid to use the items,stats & buffs present in the game.

And yet people cry in joy that “Kabbalist is finally useful”. Those people didn’t even bother with Kabbalist before Velcoffer but suddenly they all go and create several Kabbalist subs to run Velcoffer 20 times a week.

Those people are cancer,too, they destroy the game with their contended mindset as long as it’s only destroying the unpopular Classes so they can be abused for more runs on weekly entry-limited content.

That didn’t solve any problem but just brought a new problem, that being any non-meta build of these Classes being shunned and disregarded because it does not fulfill the criteria of what people want to have.

In my opinion, IMCs developers should feel ashamed for their sloppy balancing of Druid, Kabbalist, Oracle and their endgame content which is ± just hitting against a wall.

The attack/defence formula overly benefits the two-handed wielding Classes (especially lance,musket and bow) and the autoattacking Classes because of how additional damage via Blessing, Enchant Fire and Sacrament works.

All in all the game is an unfair mess that renders the majority of Classes just useless, even if they have decent skill features. This includes also Plague Doctor, which is now only useful to have for Fantasy Library because of constant freeze debuff from Froster Lord…

1 Like
#10

every :clap: SEA :clap: GVG/TBL :clap: CLERIC :clap: a :clap: PD :clap:

answer: Beak Mask/Bloodlet

Most annoying type of cleric to deal with, cant even hard CC them.
:running_woman: :dash: :mask:

#11

Just cleared it with a surprising line up, double ranger3fletcher3mergen2, random zealot dps, random inquisitorchaplainkrivis, no falconer, no elememe, no kabbalist3 2 1, no cleric3 no cleric2, it was challenging but totally doable when players use brains and buffs and buy small elixir of hp in the market.

#12

unfortunately, Transmit Prana builds I feel are done better by Exorcist. I currently use a Sadhu3 PD3 as my main character, and I could easily replace the PD with 1 Druid 2 Exo and I’d probably be a far stronger character.

I was thinking about Bokor 3 PD3. It does have the unique attribute of being able to spread magic resist shred through Hexing and Pandemic.

PD is a ‘fine’ class, I just really wish there was a more defined reason to take it over the other options now. I’m ok with Druid being absurd just as long as druid/exo does something different to PD which can justify me taking PD as my main class. Right now I don’t feel like that’s the case.

I don’t really want PD to deal more damage than Exorcist, that would be silly. Exorcist’s identity as a class is bringing the big fat holy deeps. However, I think PD should be able to spread more status effects through pandemic. Let us spread monk debuffs like bleed and One Inch Punch! Let us spread Exorcise from the Priest 3 and so on. To me, PD’s character fantasy is big AOE dots and debilitating ailments. The class could be so much better if the poison from BDS had some kind of debuff associated with it too, not just dealing damage. Let it amplify damage from outside sources or weaken enemy resistances, or something along those lines.

#13

For PvP/GvG PD3 is still good. Disenchant is op as f.
For PvE the only build I saw doing decent damage are with Sadhu3 (half of damage is from Transmit Prana), and is not thaaat great.

#14

Well yeah, anything Sadhu3 PD can do, Sadhu3 Exorcist can do better when it comes to damage. That’s the biggest pain point for me, because now my strongest character is a PD/Sadhu and isn’t welcome in endgame content because it’s not an exorcist.

How about Velena Monkey cards? PD is the only cleric class that can spread around poison without converting the monsters to plant type. Perhaps there’s some saving grace there?

Paladin PD at the moment seems pretty interesting to me. I might try that out at some point.

#15

They are useless,though. You may as well use Unicorn or Moa cards, as 30% against dark property/devil race enemies is all you will ever need.

Sure, 30% more overall damage on poisoned enemies is great.
But when they are not poisoned it seems that the cards are useless, especially on Classes that cannot poison by themselves and are e.g. utilizing Biteregina cards, so you might as well take cards that deal extra damage against enemies that actually matter in the game.

Well that’s to be expected, as Exorcist is a Class that is focused solely on dealing damage (even more extreme than Inquisitor and Zealot in this aspect) while Plague Doctor has the majority of skills fixated on applying debuffs or preventing debuffs, with only two debuff-based damage skills.

The main point of interest is that Druid is now better than Plague Doctor,too. This makes the difference.
A lower-Ranked Class outperforming the higher-Ranked Class in every aspect that’s relevant for gameplay is what makes the situation look so grim for Plague Doctor.

Of course,you can always build something like Plague Doctor3>Exorcist3 in the distant future, but what’s the point if Druid3>Exorcist3 is better? The best abilities of Plague Doctor are all on Circle 1,
so you can always build Druid3>Plague Doctor1>Exorcist3 instead of Plague Doctor3>Exorcist3 at the same Rank…

#16

Plague Doctor is still one of the most flexible classes in the game. It has ridiculous utility, ridiculous healing ability if you decide to get it, or ridiculous damage if you decide to get it. There is nothing bad about PD1, PD2, or PD3–my only gripe is that methadone has a drawback, where other skills like it do not.

You can do whatever you want with a PD–its damage is free and safe and requires no channel. You can disenchant bosses, you can prevent all status effects in PVE and PVP, 2 features which make up some of the harder things to deal with in both the hardest PVE content and all ranges of PVP content.

You can pick up exorcist. You can pick up druid. You can pick up kabba. Or you can pick up PD, which does what all three of those classes can do, and do it pretty damn well. You completely lock other classes out of PVP, you have all the tools to force others to play a specific way and with specific items, and you have all the support in the world.

1 Like
#17

I don’t really feel like PD’s healing or utility is in any way ‘ridiculous’. Ridiculous healing and utility is Druid. As PD, you heal yourself or one person with a strong regen, and you prevent or remove some weak lv2 status effects. Druid on the other hand is making the entire party regen massively and providing over 10 seconds of actual invulnerability.

Kabbalist has an actual party wide heal and damage multiplication as well as protection and holy property damage boost for people standing near their chariots. PD doesn’t really do anything the others don’t do nearly as well, and what it does do well is mostly only appreciated in PVP.

#18

Wait what? PD is fine and needs no changes.

Healing Factor and Disenchant alone are worth going 3 circles in it.

#19

Do you mean for PVP, or just in general? Because Disenchant doesn’t do a whole lot for PVE and healing factor is nice, but limited in its application, and unimpressive compared to other healing sources clerics have access to now (mainly druid grass and the buffed aukuras) which not only heal the caster, but everyone in the party.

#20

In general.

Neutralize Gear from Disenchant is one of the best boss debuffs in the game. Excellent for Velcoffer.

How is healing factor limited in its application? At 10+ it makes anyone virtually immortal provided you use it when they are max HP. This would be like saying Ein Sof is limited in its application.

Bloodletting is still the best debuff immunity skill in the game.

Black Death Stream is a total base 3330% SFR at rank 1 with attributes, incin isnt far behind and can get even stronger based on # of debuffs by increasing the time it is up.

Pandemic gives you AOE damage on all your debuffs, great skill.

Fumigate is somewhat limited to PVP, so its a good 1 point wonder.

Methadone is great to use in a party with high defense, knockdown immunity is always strong.