Tree of Savior Forum

In-Depth Analysis of the game, all-round aspect

First of all, i would like to start saying that, even though there are a lot of things i “don’t like” i cant stop

playing the game because is so much fun.

I Really wanted to make a FAQ Format Guide, but i don’t have the time nor the focus, so i just rumbled on about the following topics.

Stats - Defensive/Offensive
Gear - Tiers/Repair
Classes - Attributes/Skills/Gear Restriction
Monsters - Atributes/Bosses
Controls - Running
Economy - MoneySinks
Party

MAIN ISSUES. I do know this is just a Beta, and early content (up to lvl 200 from 600), so if anything here does not apply later on, ignore it.

Natural Health and Mana Regen is really low. I can watch a 10 min chapter of a serie and still not be full health. CON doesn’t seem to help that much since it also increases your max HP. In battle you will heal even less, if anything at all.

Also, the fact that you choose your class with the advancement option and cant change it seems a little weird. I think you should be able to change your mind right unitl before you finish the quest. It was wierd being like “uhmm, o chose swordman 2 but maybe i want to try something else” and the game was like "NOPE, you chose already, you HAVE to do the quest now. My personal opinion, the choice should be there up to the last second before delivering the quest.

The main problem with classes is that, monster are all, relatively the same. There are not enemies with, for example, 80% resistance to slash, to stop Barbarian’s facerolling, or High Crit Resistance. We need enemies that are more resistant or suseptible to certain kinds of attack. For example, you could make Str focus on Block Penetration, and Dext users con Crit, and so each have a focus to do damage to. Also, enemies with high evasion vs high hit chance, to balance them out. Same with Mages and Clerics, you could have mage damage focus on Spell block or something, so that you dont have clerics being better casters than mages. The point is, as of now, all enemies are destroyed by high DPS regardless of the source, and High DPS is not really dependant of the Stat until later on . You really need to make survivability an issue. You could also make some skills that escale with CON.

Gear. Tiers on gear makes it that, if you buy a good weapon on the AuctionHouse, when you hear the sound of a drop, you are less excited because, chances are, is worst than what you have, or at best the same.I had a boss drop a Scimitar at lvl 62, when i had bought it at lvl 40, thats underwhelming. I have nothing against Level restriction, but the fact that you have Tiers makes it annoying. At the same time, the “Attribute” to use weapons is Disempowering, if i want a swordy with a spear, why cant i? Also, why does the weapons only exist at the level the first class can use it?

On that same note, gear. Im not a fan of gear Recycling. The idea is that you feel empowered by getting a new weapon, that you can use forever, specially if you are crafting it. Some non-weapons are so good that you can use them even 100 levels later (see Vubbe Fighter Gauntlets) I still keep my resistance necklaces even 70 lvls later, because they are useful still. With weapons this is mostly not the case. I want to use a +20 damage to demons weapon when im against demons, not until lvl 30 when it falls off and i have not yet seen a demon.

On that same note, again, level penalty. Im running around, i farmed gear and avoiding skills, killing monsters 10-15 levels above me (lvl 30 to 45) and my reward for the effort? -infinite exp. Also, monsters dropped lvl 40 gear that i couldn’t even wear! Again, really underwhelming. Also, getting a blue 2 handed sword when i was Swordman Circle 2, so i couldn’t even use it when i got to lvl 40.
Why do mages use bolts when Attacking? I wanted to make a melee mage, with chronomancer and Thaumaturge. The dream is dead. Think Slayers, the Anime. Think Gandalf.

Same with Archers and melee weapons. You could also add a 2 handed Hammer. If you have seen Kung Fu panda 2, when the rhyno just wrecks havock with his 2 handed mace. Its epic. We need that. Also, i would have liked dual wielding weapons as a “set” much like a 2 handed weapon. Just that, the increase damage is devided betwen attacks but i can see with skills like Gung Ho how that would be just more complexity for nobody’s sake. And staffs for shaolin fighting. I would have love a lower rank “battle” cleric path.

Magic costs way too much for the little impact it has. When someone Summons a Fireball you expect it to hit harder than a Guy with a 2 handed sword slaming it to the ground. There needs to be a balance Between Damage - CD - SP - Castingtime - AoE. Same with skills, Some base damage is insane. And attributes, the concept is cool, i like those passive ones, but that “+1% per each” is just not even fair. It takes alot of money and time, and makes no sense at all. If you want to create money dumps there are much better ways for it.

Requiem Online had one of the best moneydump system i had seen, in contrast with quests only giving money, to the point were you really wanted to help people just to get a few coins. During their beta, there were 2 main moneydumps. Gear reroll and Buildchanging.
Gear had random stats on it, it could be 1, 2 or 3 stats, and they accounted for at least 50% of your total stats. That made it so that, you would reroll it until you get at least 2 out of 3 usefull stats, or exactly the 1 you wanted. The amount of stats total didn’t change, but the amount each stat had was random (ex: +70, +30 vs +75, +25).
You would usually stay if the strongest stat was your main status and if it was high enough. The build part was a system of “Talents” where you could chose up to 5 to improve your skills, Each one affected 1 skill in up to a 35% boost, and each skill had around 3 asociated to them, so, for example, one increased damage, the other increased range and reduced CD and the other made it so it could stun. Now, when you change them, according to how many you choose, you had to pay, 2g for 1, 20g for 2 and 20.000g for 5. Even if you changed just 1, as long as you are ending with 5, you had to pay 20.000g.

People are happy dumping money on RNG that could improve even a little, and it makes it so that people try even at top level, to get their Best in slot. Same as in opening a Boosterpack of a TCG, and the excitment you get when checking the cards and seeing the rare card, it was when a monster dropped a card in Ro, and it should be like that when you get gear or a recipe or a gem or an Orb, and i think, currently, that’s not the case, it is at best “great, i can sell that pretty high to pay for pots and repair”. About durability, when was the last time you saw someone repairing a magic weapon? Im not saying they cant have durability, but blue weapons and above should have alot more, or loose less durability. A lot less, just to make sense of it. And that reminds me of an armor i had, really strong early but with max durability really low. That’s balance, that was cool (Mummyghast Mail).

Back on classes. Some classes are just Too strong compared to others on the same rank. For example, going swordman Circle 2 is crippling, i tried going Paltesta on another character and it was the same as Swordman but i took alot less damage. While Highlander was a Faceroll, fun as hell though. Currently you feel like you have a choice, but except for archer going 2nd circle is just not worth. Leveling Bash and Thrust to lvl 10 is still worst than Highlander lvl 5.

Starting to run sometimes takes a few tries. It looks like he’s running but he is going slower and no stamina quickdrop, at least with Xbox / ps4 controlers.

Beside the fact that we need monsters with more focused strenghts and weaknesess, so we can have different builds benefit from them (Hopefully considering the higher level penalty reduced at some point), someone on reddit pointed out some mechanichs with bosses that could be implemented besides the trap things, like platforms to jump on, so you can hit the boss, or jumping through moving lines of damage to get somewhere, get an item or press a switch or something.

Again, i want to end by saying i loved the game, and if you released it as it is now, i would play the hell out of it, day and night, is that much fun.

About Regen: The main issue with HP regen is that it uses the same math as the SP, but hp values are x10 higher than SP in general. This doesn’t make sense that the HP regen have the same rates of regen that SP have.For example, i have about 5000 hp, 500 sp, 50 HP regen and 50 SP regen. My SP is full in 10 ticks (3:20 minutes without bonfire). while my HP to be full needs 100 ticks (33:20 minutes).

About enemies: i really miss the evasive ones, there are some very tanky but no enemy have ever dodged an attack i made wich made hit rate useless outside of PVP. We have several status such as block/block penetration, hit/evasion, Critical attack/Critical resistance, but no enemy that takes advantage of it (enemies with high block, high eva, high critical…) I think that what causes this is the quest oriented leveling, if you have an enemy that is hard for a certain character type people won’t be able to complete some quests alone.

About equips: I also like more unique items, this tiered system makes that most equips adds just the basic stat.The mage bolts are also bizarre when you’re not using rods. I also think that the weapon damage progression is too high. For example in RO basic weapons had attack of 25 (Sword 1h) while high end had about 250 (Balmung). (on the good times), here we start with less than 10 damage weapons (old gladius), and have lvl 40 weapons with 80-150 damage (tresh 2h sword), The difference in power of each tier is so high that you simply can’t skip that.
And about wizards… Bolts with swords? Really? I really liked to know that wizards could use some swords, but then seeing it using them as rod was very weird. For me that really like hybrid character it was a huge letdown.

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I just abandoned my quest on job change to take on another, but it’s not working. :cry: Yeah… please make it so that we can switch jobs once you abandon quest.

THIS. No perfect class/build please. :relaxed:

That’s why we stay even with the issues… 'cause we love the game. :wink:

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This will be a Off topic reply.

While i agree with half of what you say and disagree with the other half, gotta say thank you for posting feedback without raging and caps locking things like a lot of other idiots. So once again thank you for good edict. Makes people read your entire wall of text and care.

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i agree that HP regen should be fixed, is ridiculus that you fill sp in 1 minuts and hp goes on forever , even with bonfire xD

i disagree with getting enemy stronger if not for boss only, since is nice to ask for help , or to make a party for bosses, but grind is already tiring without mob blocking evading your attacks…

for the swordman tier 2 i don’t really agree, i lvled untill 79 with swordsman circle 3 and did very good damage with normal attacks, simply cause fot he 2 buff skill , i had them lvl 15 and lvl 13 , with the second one about lvl 40 skill mastery.

still i completely think a swordman should be able to use 2 hand swords…

Just give class that use 2 hand sword skill that only work with that , like rodelero with shields.
but i don’t really get why a swordman shouldn t be able to use a 2hand sword, while a mage can use a sword… it’s just weird XD

On the topic of regen i don’t think it should be changed as it rewards players that take spirit. What they should do is change bonfire to heal you more the longer you sit by it so you can regen faster that way.

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I would to hear what you have to say about what you agree and disagree about what i said though, if you have the time, because i know i am somewhat partial and would like to make a real in depth guide with a more objective opinion.

I mean, the idea of enemies blocking or evading more, is that, you would have full str builds missing, or full dext builds not criting, and other classes might benefit from this, like mages, since magic doesn’t miss.

About swordman 2, i also did this, but later i tried both paltesta and highlander and it was a breeze. At least the later levels. Maybe is just the comparasing to the highlander facerolling with twice the base damage on their skills.

It’s not about making ALL mobs stronger, but about making them more unique. If the map you grind have one enemy that is strong against you (a high eva vs. a low hit character) just choose another enemy. The point is that most enemies are just the same.

i do not agree (in general, i agree on some things said here), try play with a cleric and then tell me the same, it might be all the same against Op class like warriors, i never had problem killing mob with them, but my cleric, did so low damage to just some mob cause of their size, defence, and strong against make or sword. that it takes a lot to kill just one, and this is a game in which you lvl fine when you can kill fast.

Or you just do quest lvl fast , and at the moment you can’t quest you’re stuck doing 2 or 3 lvls to get quest again with a char that does ridiculus damage.

And with this friendlist bugged and all is very hard to find/keep a party.

Honestly for me a online game should be 10 times harder in a way that you can’t play alone and you always need people to play with. But that never happen in online games… you can always solo most of the time and just party for very high lvls or bosses…

Exactly that is the point, the enemies being all the same makes it easy for one class, but if a class have problem with one enemy, it will have with all. If enemies are more varied. there will be enemies that will be hard for warriors, but not for clerics. for example. There are a lot of ways of doing it.
For example, ragnarok made enemies that were weak to healing. Those enemies weren’t good target for meele, because they had high damage and high HP, but for clerics they were easy. With creativity they can make different enemies for different play styles.

yea, but Ro is a completely different game then this one. Honestly to re elaborate the mob so much its going to be a hard work, since the game mecanich are not the same.

you can’t heal bomb monsters here, and the cleric class at least the first circle has no damage spells.

It would be different if you could kill undead or demons with resurrection or things like this but no, you just have to heal or attack mob normally. Still i think the biggest problem is the fact that way too many people can solo, so nearly NO ONE really NEED a priest if not for some bosses, if people needed priest then problem solved, a full buff class is not supposed to touch mobs, but getting exp by supporting people…

At least in theory it should be XD

it was just an example, they can acheive this balance by different means. The point is, if the monsters are more varied, there will be more ways to gring other than holding the auto attack until all dies. They don’t need to do much as you think, all they need to do is to balance their stats and behavior. things already possible.

[quote=“andreapiro17, post:12, topic:99089”]
Still i think the biggest problem is the fact that way too many people can solo, so nearly NO ONE really NEED a priest if not for some bosses,
[/quote]Because the enemies are simply dumb. All they do is just attack and nothing else, they have nothing different and there is no reward for leveling on higher level mobs.

I was hoping that ToS will be a great comeback of from RO (even being said that it’s more of a RO Rip-off), but I’d have high hopes for it to shine more than RO did in its days.

But… My observation has been concluded thus far;

  • Game offers something that is promisingly big, but end result shows that the game is small, somewhat lacking in somewhere/something.
  • Too linear, too repetitive, too predictable, too easy, and imbalance in class-wise argument (A swordy rank 2 can solo almost every boss, every quest, how bout other classes?)
  • Quests’ are too damn boring, repetitive; Talk to NPC, Talk to Stone > Boss comes out of it > Talk to NPC > and talk to Stone again… rinse and repeat on almost every quest there is in the game, in every town/field.
  • Gear Tier limitation, really?
  • The price of enhancing your gears, oh, my, god, lvl 40+ gears costs you an arm and leg just to get it to +4
  • Yes, i know, this is close-beta, but what being discusses is the CORE GAME-PLAY, something that is most likely never to be updated/changed.
  • Core gameplay follows too much of it from Granado Espada, nothing like RO, at all. (only the graphics, but thats it)

Sigh, to sum it up, game has potential, but it was packed too much that it limits the diversity of the game.
Yeah people will love it, fanboy will kiss is everyday, but that’ll last till so long, that people will eventually get bored of it, and start playing something else in the Steam Library.

Agreed on the weapon usage!

I was disappointed to find out I cannot use a 2handed weapon on my swords man 2nd circle.

Every game we mention is a completely different game. I can say “Requiem did this, Wow did that, GW2 this as well, and Atlantica too, FFF or blade and soul etc…etc…” the point is to use something to compare so we can explain the point easier.

I do believe some things are correlated. For example, if there was no tier gear limitation, then paying alot for a weapon that you find cool and you are going to use constantly is worth while.

Exaclty, some had insanely high dodge, so high crit or archers could kill them, some had around 80-90 armor and so on.

LOL well this sounds EXACTLY like RO sooo yea. Like i love Ragnarok but it had all these problems aswell

Like, you have gotta be kidding me.
In direct comparison, it is nothing like RO, like, AT ALL.
Graphical interface, yeah, it looks like RO. But GAMEPLAY, nothing like RO at all.

RO has its own fun and identity, ToS is sorta struggling trying to get a hold of the players.
Well i’d argue constructively with numbers/facts and all.
But lets just see where this game goes after 1 year.

People will go crazy over games when its fresh, same goes with RO2, but look where it’s headed now.