Tree of Savior Forum

[Improvement] Endgame Content

Lately it seems like IMC is back to improving the game which gives me some hope to throw in suggestions for the game again because there are still some things lacking for real long time motivation.

The Situation

  1. It is, in my opinion, fun to go through the whole quest and storyline at least for the first time.
  2. Then you start gearing yourself, which is indeed unnecessarily nasty many times due to a lot of known reasons but these are problems which are in my opinion not that important at the moment. But gearing oneself should and is fun here and there so this is at least not a core problem for now.
  3. Then you reach the endgame and this is where the real problems begin.

The Endgame

In the end it only comes to 2 things in the endgame

  • Fun
  • Challenge

There are always different kinds of players but I am pretty sure that in the end it always comes down to these 2 topics and both are actually very lacking in the endgame when you are mostly done gearing your favorite character.

Fun

Typically having challenges is fun already but apart from this, believe me or not, there are people who actually just want to login after a day’s work and just want to have some fun. But what is there to enjoy actually?

  • People enjoy getting something they like. Most if not all people enjoy getting something which means that sometimes just adding a token of gratitude adds some fun for players.
    And this means events real ones. In my opinion we had good ones. Take the first day of the broken Thanksgiving event for example. I brought together people it was somehow fun. Ridiculous indeed but it kind of worked. Give people a reason to meet up and actually do something like building something or reaching milestones together which gives players something they like in return.
    And god please no Talt because this makes people often unneccesarily sad. Progress stuff like Silver Anvils, Awakening Stones or gladly accepted I think or how about something completely different like parts for housing.
  • Housing people have mentioned this here and there. In a cute game like this with really good artstyle it is nice to care for your own characters and build yourself something like your own location.
    And the core concept is already here and by this I mean Guild Towers. Personally I mostly use my tower just for having a working teleport station as statues are annoying and often blocked by random people.
    But what actually could be done is for example give the guild hangout means of customization which can be unlocked by doing guild missions and guild boss raids. This way the useless Talt reward could also be removed from guild missions. And imagine everytime the Guild leader “unlocks” (visits for the first time) a new dungeon, or the mission outpost, earth tower, saalus etc and through this gets the option to recruit this npc to the hangout such that people can easily queue from within the hangout and also just from the guild window. This shouldn’t be too difficult to add to the game especially given you can already queue TBL from everywhere - why not queue or enter dungeons the same way?
    With this concept it leads to people forming groups/guilds or join existing ones which should be the core principle of an mmo.
    I also see the downside of this as towns would lose many shops or afk players that at least gives it the picture of a filled game but I don’t think locations will completely die out this way because everyone without a guild will still gather there and might lead them to form new groups.

Challenge

I guess apart from the casuals who like to enjoy some fun many players are seeking challenges and also seeking and clearing those is fun again!
But there isn’t much. We have.

  • Fantasy Library.
    To be honest it’s fun to clear it one time and read the story behind it. It’s actually a very nice designed dungeon but in the end after doing it a few times the gameplay is boring and it’s completely unrewarding to do it.
    Fantasy Library should be a progress dungeon because of the time based gear checks. That means you should get something to progress if your group is able to clear the dungeon. In my opinion a good and quick way to fix this would be to add silver and blessed shards to the regular boss drops and not to the cubes and add 315+ materials to the boss cubes.
    Running 290 dungeon rushes for an hour is dead and stupid and this could be a good alternative. Like giving the first boss 200k silver drop and the second one 300k and both bosses drop a random amount of blessed shards.
    Trust me, people would start looking for new groups to clear this dungeons which is imho really nice.
  • Uphill defense.
    Yep you read right. In my opinion this gamemode is one of the best additions the game had throughout the year !
    But the first 25 levels are boring. What Uphill needs are difficulties selectable difficulties for different rewards. It’s mostly used to get Keista Potions and Gem Abrasive. I think it’s fine to keep these as rewards but how about increasing the rewards while removing all the useless trash (attox boxes, not useful potions, etc) when clearing a higher difficulty.
    I mean we even have an Uphill Ranking. Would be nice if one could even get more Uphill points and PVP points for clearing higher difficulties.
    Just multiple levels (which have to be unlocked one after another) and the higher the difficulty the more and stronger monsters spawn and also a higher rate of Bosses appearing because this is so much fun everytime it happens.
    And then give drops and exp to the monsters and bosses. I guess drops and exp were removed because of problems but now that we have the multicore optimization it should be added. This would add so much fun and motivation to clear Uphill defense. Just please! @Staff_Yuri @Staff_Amy please hand this idea to the devs that would make my day. :slight_smile:
    Personally I would even clear it just for fun without rewards if the challenge is there and I am sure I am not the only one. Uphill is similar to Tower Defense, a game style which hasn’t died out for ages for a reason.
  • Earth Tower.
    Some might say this is the only endgame we have. At the moment that’s quite true because it’s the only real challenge with gear progression as reward there is. I won’t touch the class balance/damage problem here as it is a known problem that because of the system their isn’t much of a choice when it comes to classes for ET. But there is an important improvement:
    Time. Challenging the Earth Tower is fun. But in my opinion 20 floors take too long. And I observe on Fedimian a huge increament in people going for higher ET floors and looking for parties to do so when the ET Tokens got ingame.
    Simply the option to try to challenge new floors without having to redo (by then boring) floors people have done a dozen time already is fun, especially if people trying to do ET do not have a lot of time each day (after work for example).
    Even if the devs think that tokens now would take away the challenge which is true. It would be a nice idea to have to option to select between 21/26/31/36 after having cleared 40 once meaning once you have proven to be able to clear ET you can freely select the floors for gear progression.
    I think this would be a good deal.
  • Guild Battles
    I leave this one open for now until we see what comes next week. But take into consideration:
    The server populations aren’t big. That’s fact. And the way the game engine works I guess it’s better this way. But this means that 15vs15 is far too much. So better change GvG to organized 5 vs 5. Like TBL but with the bigger GvG map and without random parties.
    This way there will be competition at least more than before. It would also prevent big guilds from feeding through alt guilds are there will be more small guilds in the queue because even without 5 people you can go in with 4 without having a huge disadvantage like fighting 12 people as 4 which was the main point of small guilds to not even touch the GvG button.
12 Likes

I hate to be that guy, but did i miss 3???

You sir, got some really vital points. I agree woth moat everything you say.

I would also add that perhaps, 2 v 2 premade rankings would be super fun and competitive

Typo, sorry. X)
Fixing it now.

Premade 2v2 sounds good and is something I would really like but then TBL would need premade and random queue and I guess splitting players will be a problem.
Imho given that balance is broken to begin with both could share the same queue and get a party matchmaking for pvp. But I guess people won’t like that.
Guess in the end it’s better to keep TBL random and GvG organized. Personally I would like to have 1vs1 and 3vs3 TBL. I think these numbers are fitting better for the Arena.

They have the challenge part but forgot the fun part though.

there is no problem in separating random pvp with premade pvp in my books.

for example have random all day long, and premade 2 a day type of thing ( may be with something simmilar to GvG rankings and seasoned)

but i do agree that balance is broken, there is also need for Diminishing Return mechanic for Stuns and CC’s.
It is really annoying that psychokino / cryomancer can stun lock you at level 130 and it does not matter that you are 330, or that you dont get a chance to even press one button…

I would say, that every other same type CC should last 2 as short, and cap at 3 applications in a minute, that would seem a bit more fair.

Also damage cap should be introduced in PvP (or at least damage reduction in %, or perhaps a different formula for damage calculation for PvP only) but that is, perhaps, too complicated for them to understand?
`#MakeIMCGreatAgain

My main concern is that there are not enough players for it to begin with. As long as balance is broken as it is players are sick of pvp.
Fedimian is extrem in that case. There is no 5vs5 ranking anymore and rarely more than 1 2vs2 if even.
In my opinion unorganized pvp/TBL should be second on the list, there is more important to fix right now because for pvp to really work IMC needs to get players back.

As far as what you’re saying about ET:

Right now Solmiki is old school ET style with no floor skipping and takes a very long time to reach even 30F(lots of “stay alive” type of floors). There is also desync issue which is quite common and a recent party disconnect issue. Sad to say, but this is the least of the issues.

Each piece of solmiki armor for the set is 60 essence.

Currently 25F cube is a 500k reroll with 100% chance to get essence. If it works like Lolo, it will be 100k more/reroll per each 5 floors and a 60% chance to get the essence. You need 7 pieces of armor looking like this:

25F = 500k reroll 100% chance for essence(120essence needed[gloves and boots])
30F = 600k reroll 60% chance for essence(180 essence needed[bracelets and legs])
35F = 700k reroll 60% chance for essence(120 essence needed[chest and necklace])

I wouldn’t mind if it was just 100% chance for essence on reroll, but as you can see, Solmiki is a HUGE grind. Not only do you need a dedicated party who can clear actively, but you need that huge time/silver sink.

There isn’t too harsh of a meta besides requiring a priest, diev, chrono, and good aoe dps. My current comp is wiz3>ele3>wl2, wiz3>pyro3>link2, cleric2>priest2>pally3>miko, cleric1>kriv3>diev3>taoist, wiz1>cryo3>chrono3>sage. The main problem is dps required to have a huge silver investment for damage and everyone showing up daily.

I know all this, but that’s not the problem here.
The “old school” ET style what you call it that’s the problem. I guess it’s fine if you have to do it multiple times but there are people, after work. That have about 2h for all content ingame which is at most 1h for ET.
That’s enough for 15 floors and that’s it.
So you bore through like 10 floors which are no problem which you have seen countless times just to get back to your content. That’s horrible design.
Each day 2x 5 floors is totally fine. Or like 1 time gathering up for the whole 20 floors on a weekend for example. But if you are forced to almost an hour completely non interesting, non challenging boring content each day… why should you play this? It’s not fun.

I guess the tokens in Lolo were implemented to get people to Solmiki but the design should be like this in general or how I mentioned in OP.

Exactly, and that’s how it should be. There is a huge silver AND time sink. It takes about 40-45minutes to reach 30F with my group. I even have to refresh weapon buff after each run. They’re really trying to enforce the “grind” but it’s a lot easier for those who have tons of silver to blow.

Yep.
Imho 40 minutes for one run the be the limit. For some daily action the 2x 20 minutes are perfect for me. 40 could be dealt with but even more. Uh…
In the end it’s not like you need the set. It’s nice to have but there is no content to use it for in the end. So at least the ET challenge/grind should be enjoyable.

1 Like

The purpose made was a horrible Korean grind core-focused content. Blessed shards, Orange weapons, ET, etc. None of this content is really casual based. As expected, it is favored to those who RMT or hardcore grind.