Tree of Savior Forum

IMCs communication issues

Hi am no one :unamused:

I think people were anticipating a spring-themed contest and the “achievement” theme threw people off, meaning they have to create completely new artwork.

That takes time. Don’t worry, submissions will show up.

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Ill probably pass one this time, i feel sorry for IMC lulz.

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Been very busy irl and got tired when I have free time, haven’t touch my artwork for 3 days. But don’t worry, you won’t be alone

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At this rate, it looks like the contest will be cancelled (or there will be one winner kek). Oh well.

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For the sake of this thread, I’d like to point out that My.com operate a Discord, they have staff in multiple Discords, they interact privately with users all the time, there are in fact many friendships.

There are zero issues.

I would argue that it vastly helps their company, they are connected to their userbase, and it provides them with a tool to communicate efficiently with their volunteer forum moderator teams, which keep all of their forums pretty nice to use.

My.com deserve the p2w criticism they get for their games but they’re HOT when it comes to their community engagement and community management.

There is absolutely no reason to be concerned about staff talking to users, or being friendly and engaging. Tell management at IMC that they need to trust their staff more, you’re not a bunch of children, you can talk to users without causing drama just fine.

This answer upset me a little, it stinks of overbearing management that don’t trust their staff to not cause a PR disaster just from having conversations with their userbase. It sounds like management are over-controlling and distrustful.

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I think as long as it’s kept professional there should be no problem with staff answering stuff privately. The staff just need to ensure problems are directed through the correct channels. And to make sure to post answers here if they are of interest to the community. Maybe Staff could speak to each other before responding if it helps.

I hope our lovely staff will consider this feedback :smiley_cat:

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The lack of good communication with the players has been IMC biggest administrative problem since the start of this game.

This can easily be seen by the fact that the moment a GM shows themself in the game they will be bombarded with questions from people that comes rushing to talk to them, even if they have no proper answers to give in return. Summed up most of the answers we get are: “I‘ll take a note of this”.

The copy/paste non-answers from the ticket support staff where it’s very clear that they have not even bothered to properly read or understand the questions are so notorious it’s basically a meme by now.

And then you have the lack of staff on the forum that not only think it’s not their job to talk to the players, but also neglects to moderate the forum to the degree that normal players stays away because of the high level of toxicity. It’s so bad now that I know of more players that actively stay away from the forum than players that use it.

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Yes, the forums are very toxic, also they certainly do not read tickets. They just have a quick glance for keywords and that is it.

Like using an 8x tome for the sole purpose of doing missions/dungeons, when missions and dungeons keep crashing/disconnecting. They just treat you like everyone else with those issues: give you a few reset vouchers.

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I think the issue is developing “friendships” with customers when you’re supposed to act as an extension of a company/corporation.

A lot of game devs, like the Absolver devs and as you said, my.com are involved in their own discords and do fine. ToS itself has a translator discord that had a lot of active GM-volunteer interaction before launch. But maybe I’m biased, because I’ve seen an instance of a GM in another mmo get waaaaaaaaay way way way way too attached to a single player due to having a lot of private contact with them. I doubt it’ll really have much of an effect since this is only for the art contest, really, but it’s just an iffy thing to do imo…?

IMC def does have communication issues though lmao. I was one of the few who went to go yell at them on facebook for this reason early on the game’s launch. But I still don’t think they should achieve this communication by going into casual discords.

good: GM regularily logs into the game towns, people can recognize and greet em and they’re prepared to answer the questions, can joke around with the community (had a lot of fun with GMs before and server-wide jokes) but not have favor or bias for any group, discusses issues openly on a forum and relays feedback seriously, holds polls and discussions for game mechanic improvements rather than just say “alright note taken”, etc. If something they can’t answer quickly comes up, they say “hold up, let me discuss this a bit and I’ll get back to you”, states their intentions and current thoughts very clearly and often, only engages in extensive private conversations with announced and community accepted/nominated groups of people

bad: GM constantly PMs a single person for a discussion that involves a lot of people, GM joins private chat servers and keeps the discussion where it’s not accessible by a platform provided by the company itself, GM lets themselves engage in conversations where people are very upset/biased/abrasive/trolling, etc.

I don’t think GMs should be robots, but they definitely shouldn’t be friends. There’s also the issue of some players developing a feeling like they have some sort of authority over the game because they have the ability to speak with a GM.

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You won’t be alone! I promise you. Juggling classes and work is a bit of a hassle. Don’t lose hope!

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This is basically the problem.

The userbase takes the lack of response or answers to a difficult question that can’t immediately be answered as a serious negative over a longer timeline.

Western audiences in gaming value honesty and openness a whole lot. Especially small and dedicated communities. They are very forgiving and loyal to developers that are open and honest. It’s ok to explain why something is difficult, or to be unable to provide something for the customer, if it includes a clear and well explained answer for what the issue is.

GM lets themselves engage in conversations where people are very upset/biased/abrasive/trolling, etc.

With the social media team at our company I emphasise the importance of understanding roles. When roles are set in a discussion it is easy to end up losing to the audience. The important factor representatives must maintain is to not allow a situation of defender+attacker roles to occur. This happens when a representative mistakenly attempts to defend against criticisms that they might disagree with. They might even be correct about their defence, however it always places them in a situation where they continue to receive further attacks and require to be further defensive.

Community participation is generally completely safe provided this is avoided.

As for the relationship between player and staff becoming an issue. It really doesn’t. Not in any tangible way that matters to the game. The only issue it tends to create is that toxic people tend to use it in spurious ways to generate drama without any real purpose.

Neither my “good” nor “bad” list was meant to describe how IMC is acting, haha. I’m well aware in which departments IMC lacks in when I wrote that post.

I don’t think that a GM forming a relationship with a player in THIS game in particular, especially just over the subject of an art contest, will cause any harm either. I’m not even sure how much power a GM’s suggestion has in this company. But uh…I won’t get into it since I’ve blabbered about it on an offtopic thread before, but I’ve seen an MMO scrap and invent entire game mechanics (something of the size of say, trandescendence in tos) at the private “suggestion” of a player close to a GM. This isn’t even counting the private favors, like gear generation or hack/rmt overlooking that a good chunk of other companies (i.e. Nexon) has been known to do in the past because a GM knows someone. Of course, this has a lot more to do than just “GM and Player A got too buddy buddy” and has more to do with the company’s general professionalism, but the smoke eventually leads back to the initial question of “why the hell was this employee so favorable of this one person”, and that’s where the entire situation could have been avoided.

And like you described, just standard procedure in dealing with a customer. But you cannot mantain that if you want a “friendship” with anyone. A rep/GM might know their place but a customer sure as hell might not. And a lot of PR issues are essentially drama without real purpose, if people are angry they’re angry and it’s hard to brush it off as “oh they’re just being dumb” when you’re a company.

Another thing to note is that people already were pissed off when they initially made an art contest discussion thread because ingame issues weren’t getting discussed. lmao. people don’t understand that different people are assigned different jobs. It didn’t matter, people still got angry. If they went ahead and decided to go the length of discord involvement over this issue, they’d have to seriously step up their game for every other department in communications or else have to deal with another group of angry people.

I do prefer that they get involved in discords and improve their communication versus them staying in the safe zone out of discords and keep their communication spotty as hell, for the record. After all, the assumption that players might seek favors and GMs might grant them is very loaded. I still think the honest to god best way of going about this is an open discussion on the forums, where maybe some people can relay input from the discord. That way nobody HAS to be involved with a group run by another player should they wish to participate in discussion, all discussion and behavior is viewable by anyone, polls can be held more easily, post logs are more reliable, etc.

Lot of the issue IMC has with communication is that it’s so inconsistent too. They opened a good discussion on this topic and then proceeded to shut down suddenly on Elin, and haven’t left a serious indication that they want to continue discussion about this. They could’ve just declined the discord invite and then moved the conversation to a public thread, but instead it went cold turkey. I can see how everyone is pissed that they’re using the discord excuse to avoid conversation.