Tree of Savior Forum

IMC Staff forum activity

@Addiktion You are correct, having one or not having one at this point of time wouldn’t have a major impact.

But having one as early as possible, definitely does have a long term impact, and is still better than not having one.

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I don’t understand people here who refuse to agree that having CM at early stages of game development positively impacts community engagement => satisfaction => loyalty => monetisation. The earlier you start to reach to your community, the earlier it reaches YOU!

So even if there’s nothing to post about gameplay decisions or bugs or wharever connected to game itself, CM can always be engaged into small talks. You know, like politics, mathematics, tea… The point here is to give community a feeling that developer cares about his players, a feeling of being part of a process, part of something greater than just lonely bunch of hungry waiters.

Awe, it will come soon.
I bet you they’ll post something by the 15th, if not you can hit me in tha arm :slight_smile:

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I want to see you recruiting and paying people for shitposting all the day :blush: I prefer this money invested in more serious stuff until they have interesting stuff to say to us.
Seriously, if you really need a thing like that, just pretend anyone of us is a member of the staff.

@Aries Ive saved your post, see you in 1 week :blush:

No one is refusing, we’d just rather have them invest into the actual game than tending to forum kids who I suppose need attention so badly. Whether a CM talked to me or not, I would still play the game, because you know, not all players who will play this game even have a forum account to even know the existence of CMs…? Seems like an issue with the minority that want CMs to hold their hands. Would you not play ToS because a CM didn’t actively communicate with you?

If they have one, that’s nice but if they don’t, I’m pretty sure a lot of people will still play the game.

@Addiktion, I understand your point, and I’m quite sure this game wouldn’t lose much without CM, especially now. What I want to say is that community management is where the difference between good game and awesome gaming experience starts. If you agree that games nowadays are not only about games themselves but about service and digital engagement, than hopefully my point doesn’t look that weird anymore =)

No amount of CM talk will ever make the game turn from good to amazing. A lot of people just want to feel like a special snowflake whose feedback is being heard. MMO gamers love to feel special, they love feeling like they know everything a game should do and what it should change. Most of the time the communities feedback is not that great. Its close minded, misguided, and most of the time its selfish. MMO gamers want what they want and they want to be catered to. Its just silly and CM’s get taken advantage of by the 1000s of whining people. It turns less into constructive feedback and more relaying whining complaints to the developers. If they want our feedback they will ask and they already have. They are actively participating in the GitHub and responding to nearly everything. They are doing exactly what they need to do, making the game better and not staring at forum posts of people who want to be heard. At this point in the games life they should be focusing solely on making the game and improving its mechanics/systems.

Strong community will come from the players not a CM. If they want feedback they will ask.

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Points

I personally disagree with asking people who primarily speak and enjoy Korean to speak in English purely for our own sake.


Having community moderators who participate, sure.
(that is part of their job description or it should be)


I’d rather they not let their ‘love’ for developing their game be ruined by people who can’t be supportive.
(or even by those who can but end up doing it poorly)


Simply put, I’d rather this be their choice, not some nonsense they do because everyone is pushing them to do it.
I’ve seen enough of that and I don’t enjoy it at all.
The shittiest work mood I can be in is when my client is pestering me to do something related to the job I’m doing for them when it isn’t the right time or place. Especially more so if those same clients are just as willing to both complain and talk poorly of the job you’re doing when they’re the very reason the job is going poorly.

Because they’re forcing you to do things out of your elements.


Sorry. (to whomever it may concern)
Yes, the big “IMC STAFF, TALK TO US” line made me just a little angry.
Humans have always been greedy. I will accept that as a norm.
Selfishness is instead what you get when greed and a lack of consideration is put together.
That lack of consideration for others is absolutely disagreeable to me.
(Yes, I know this is a point of hypocrisy on my part)

The suggestion to have some sort of staff participation is good for the community.
Staff participation has always been a great way to keep the community fresh.
I simply don’t agree the way it was explained. (and phrased)


TLDR

  • Idea is good.
  • We sound like annoying ass clients.
  • This should be common sense to them and if it’s not, they got the suggestion here.
  • Let’s not push them into this. Unwilling participation may contribute to unwanted stress.
  • Yes I am being complainy. Deal with it. This thread’s suggestion is half a complaint anyway. c:
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I made a thread asking about the CM in the first day of the forums:

If you pay attention to the total of 0 IMC replies in that thread we can get to the conclusion that this is not a priority for them. Read the signs guys and let it go.

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Almost like Freddy said, “Hype must go on”. But uh, how is it supposed to “go on” if nothing’s going on? =)

Hype doesn’t require a CM to constantly post. As a matter of fact I’m still hyped with little to no information for more than a month. And that’s fine, they even said themselves they needed to stop blog posts to focus on the game. I’d rather them do that than post nearly every week something new. And the community trying to force information out of IMC is ridiculous. The patience is obviously thin ATM. Leave them alone and let them work on the game. Just cause they don’t want to spoon feed you information doesn’t mean they need to. If you honestly can’t take the fact that they aren’t giving us more info or a CM posting a lot then you have really bad patience.

Omfg, like it takes so much time to post a few words. They need to focus on game and bla-bla-bla. We don’t ask them to post something 24/7, just a post or two per week, that would do.

That would do what? Satisfy your attention-seeking needs? They’ll post something when they’re ready. Didn’t know the forums revolved around kids that need their hands to be held.

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I’m sorry, but this starts to become personal. You must have gotten my point terribly wrong or didn’t want to get any other points in the first place. I do disagree with you, but I’m not trying to call anyone “a kid” or simplify their needs to “attention-seeking” only because they have different point of view.

Personally I don’t need anything at all from IMC stuff. I just wanted to say that it is important to stay in touch with your community no matter how busy you are. And yes, I do understand that IMC is not a company with spare millions of dollars to invest into community management. Anti-CM point is clear and correct in many ways, but I know lots of examples when some indie developer raised millions not by making awesome game, but by heavily engaged into community activities. That’s why I keep repeating that any investment in community management might return tenfold. Just think about it, I’m not trying to convince anyone.

P.S. English is not my native language, hopefully this is the only reason for my words being taken wrong.

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Please explain to me of these “community activities” that cause such an impact that can help ToS raise millions of dollars. Trust me, by all means, if having a CM does what you claim to preach, I’ll fully support it, who wouldn’t if it helped ToS become completely successful just by having a CM? So I AM thinking about it but I don’t see how it can give forth such results of which you speak of, so, please elaborate.

I’m not saying that just having a CM makes ultimate impact on success of any game. If taken seriously and correctly conducted, community management may improve chances for game to be recognized wider, and be more profitable as a result. I’m not talking about millions of dollars (it was just an example) but about relative values.

As for example of “community activities” that improved product recognition…
Well, let’s take World of Tanks. I worked for Wargaming and know for sure that if they didn’t change their attitude to product delivery with WoT (significant part of this change was online community management and “offline” CM later), they wouldn’t be where they are now. I know it from CEO speeches at corporate parties and personal conversations with VPs of Game Design and Producing.

But let’s not talk about big guys. Let’s talk about Minecraft. Have a look at this: Infiniminer gameplay video. Guess what is the difference that made Minecraft hyped all over the world and Infiniminer long forgotten? IMHO, partly it was shitposting. But don’t get me wrong, it’ wasn’t the only reason.

@Addiktion, @MementoMori, @Chaosbelow, you guys can’t imagine how difficult it is for me to put complex thoughts in English. I’m tired as hell by this argument and kindly ask you to forgive me for not willing to continue. So thanks for sharing your opinions, It helped to see the whole picture of community needs better!

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Thanks for your detailed answer @Mephilin :blush:
In fine, we all would like a nice CM sooner or later, even if some people think it is necessary and some others don’t.
But I don’t think someone is really against that idea.
Let’s wait and see what IMC reserved for us :slight_smile:

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Regardless of what any of you say community managers are important, if they weren’t there wouldn’t be such position, Having a community manager can reduce the distance between Player-Dev and a CM can moderate the forums so we don’t have repeating posts anymore.

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I think we can continue this thread for ever :blush:

@Sharp Indeed Moderators are important, because they make sure the forum rules are respected (anarchy has rarelly been a good solution in human history). A game cannot work if people don’t respect the rules.

On the other hand, everybody loves them, but CM aren’t important. They don’t fondamentally fulfill anything primordial for the game. They improve the game experience, and staff-players relation when they do a good job.
But a game can work without them, I would even say a game must work without them. They aren’t part of the game system, they are only an interface.

Community managers are none of the things you said, they truly never will be part of the game, they are part of the company, of the busisness. I can live my life without ever talking to anyone, it’s not fundamental that doesn’t mean it’s not important.
CM’s are part of the PR and bad PR can destroy any company.

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