Tree of Savior Forum

IMC, let us repick jobs with TP

General Discussion
#21

Easy.

Spend TP to replace a circle.

It starts at lv1 again.

Unless you level it back to 15, you can’t choose another one.

There, now if you want C3 in a tanky class, you have to gain 45 levels without your highest DPS skills.

If a class becomes trash in a patch, you don’t waste 300+ levels remaking your character from scratch. If you make a terrible mistake, you’re not stuck with it forever. If you just want to try something slightly different to test out a certain combo, you can do it as many times as you want. Yet if someone else finds out the sick new build, you can’t immediately copy it without an appropriate amount of effort, possibly taking just as long or even longer than making a new character if they scale the required EXP to your highest rank.

2 Likes
#22

And there are a lot that ARE pleased that no resetting could be done. I would argue far more are in favor of no resets in fact.

2 Likes
#23

I’m not saying P2W, I agree there should be a certain amount of effort needed after reset, and even a limitation to how many times perhaps. I seen it done on Wakfu, and it doesn’t do anything except make the players happy and keep the company in business. Mechanics are different, but you’ll be farming most of your equipment which is time consuming as hell in that MMO. That’s about 90% of the MMO actually.

#24

If your too lazy to lvl up a alt i suggest you too stop playing this game or at least dont take it srs because the way is the goal in this mmorpg and if you think that it would take too much effort to lvl up a new character well than im sry.

#25

Then start complaining when IMC starts selling actual P2W stuff from the TP shop like anvils that don’t reduce equipment potential when it fails upgrading.

I can say the same, let’s not do what old, outdated MMO’s do, and instead welcome some features that they have but give it a slightly different direction that is reasonable and could make everyone satisfied.

Also if you haven’t been to ToS late game yet, you’re in for a wild ride for Earth Tower if you didn’t build your character to fit criteria into being able to clear it. A bunch of classes and builds are gated from being successful on it.

#26

Does wakfu have a class system like this though? Actually, name any game with a similar class system with resets.

#27

I said different mechanics. I still don’t see the problem.

#28

Yeah, let’s not do what MMOs that people played 10+ years did. Let’s do what MMOs nowadays do, where people hop from game to game every month and tons of broken stuff is sold in cash shops. Good comparison.

1 Like
#29

what people seem to have overlooked, is that, the changes to PD are PURELY applied only to arena. so PD still works fine in a PvE setting, while becoming balanced for PvP. this is a good thing, and i personally believe ALL skills should have PvE effects AND pvp effects. that way both are completely different experiences in a fun way.

7 Likes
#30

I actually think the idea of having to pay TP/silver and do a fairly long quest, as well as only being able to change 1 circle per month (per account) or 3 circles ever (per character), and also having to level the circle up from 1 would make it so that I’m okay with resets being implemented.

#31

Yes, and ironically those 10+ year old games you say that don’t have resets, eventually implemented them just to keep their game alive. Weird isn’t it?

1 Like
#32

Both sides have valid reasons of why and why not. A full reset would be just outrageous and promote cookie cutter builds. People that end up not liking their build will have not choice but to start from scratch. Which is why some middle ground should be met. Letting someone change one circle if they end up not liking a class as much as they thought they would IMO is fine.

#33

If it gets super heavily restricted like this, I’d be okay with it. I wouldn’t be pleased, but I’d be okay with it I guess. If it just ends up giving free resets like some sort of awful private Ragnarok server, I’ll end up quitting, as I’m sure many other people will.

1 Like
#34

So many misguided people in this argument always saying it’s the players fault for needing to reroll.

I don’t understand this logic at all. You spend 300 hours investing time into creating your character and then one day half your skills are nerfed into oblivion. Now what do you do? You argue it’s an mmorpg and it’s meant to work this way.

Well guess what? If this is an RPG then we should be invested in our characters we create right? Not just throw them away since our choices have been ruined due to balance.

I can tell you that not everyone here has the luxury of being 16-22 in school or not and can just play games all day. Most of us have lives and jobs. For example I’ve only been able to put in about 80 hours into this game since release because I have other responsibilities. What you are saying is after I spend a months leveling a character to find that IMC has nerfed it so much that the game is unplayable I should spend another few months leveling another character when I am invested in one already?

You have 2 choices, either you do reroll or you quit. The sad part is most of the people on here that do not pay for TP and what not yell at players telling them to quit but guess what, those people that do pay for micro-transactions are the ones keeping the game afloat.

People telling people to quit after literally yelling at them for wanting to have the CHOICE to reroll circles so quite immature.

All MMOs have choices like this, this is not 16 years ago, this is not Ragnarok, don’t make the comparison. Current games and the current market demand choice.

You choose:

  1. Allow players to have circle resets to continue playing/have fun

  2. Tell them no and that they are not allowed to have fun, which makes then quit and your game dies

2 Likes
#35

Too lazy to level up an alt with a single circle change and the exact same gear as my other capped character? Absofuckinglutely. What a colossal waste of time that would be.

But if it’s faster to make a new character, or cheaper to buy a new slot, then people will still do that instead of buy the class reset/removal. Even if you’ve already got one of each base class, there are plenty of reasons not to reset one instead of keep extra alts handy.

And there’s plenty of reasons to want to reset instead of restart, too.

I don’t want everything I’ve ever done in the game to just be “well then I’m sorry” in some patch one day. That’s not how you keep people playing, that’s how you lose players.

2 Likes
#36

Except most didn’t, and you’re just making up stuff and making yourself look stupid in the process.

I’d be willing to bet the few that did had a major portion of their population gone before then, and were struggling to do anything to pay the bills at that point. They survived a long time by attracting a mature audience that enjoys earning rewards, and when they eventually left after many years, they got desperate.

#37

If the circle change be real (i hope not) the stats will remaind the same. And there will be a buch of people complaining of “imc is stealing us”, “thats not fair” “cry cry cry”. So NO class change there wont be an option. Sorry for terrible english

#38

Give me examples then? Ragnarok already has them, if that’s the first game you’re thinking of. And yes, riding down the insult train surely makes you mature in this matter.

And you know we’re not really advocating for complete circle resets, only partial, controlled ones that doesn’t warrant abuse.

Yes, most modern MMO’s let you reset an unlimited number of times so long as you have the money, but how about we change that a little and make sure that it may not be unlimited, or it has repurcussions/cooldowns to avoid changing from complete builds to another, especially on a multi-class system per character for a game like this? There’s a middle ground on everything and you seemed to have agreed for a reset like this, so I don’t see why you seem to still have some spite over our suggestions.

1 Like
#39

I think it’s totally reasonable to think that people shouldn’t be able to change their class, but this is where it gets kind of muddy.

I think most reasonable people if they spend 1000+ hours on a character, for example, find out that one day their class has been totally changed or modified in a way that wasn’t what they read ‘on the box’, most of these people aren’t going to re-roll. They are going to quit. Overall this is an unhealthy result for the game, and it’s not super unreasonable to imagine why someone might quit in that situation.

As such, it almost seems like a necessary evil. Even if it goes against the principles of the game and the meaning of the choices you made, in the end it’s arbitrary and in the end, it can hurt the game more than it helps to not provide the ability to do so, because of TOS’s structure.

I think a good middle-ground would be to provide a class-path reset at varying level windows during the level process. This means any given person will have a limited number opportunities to reset their class path, meaning their choices are still important, and there’s still room for at least some experimentation and getting comfortable with the class you will be for the rest of your time playing the game at level cap.

4 Likes
#40

As much as I like your argument outside of this, free players do a lot to keep the game afloat. Without either side the game will die.

I understand the $0 mindset being afraid of P2W and “options” that they’ll never be able to use, but that’s why it should be fair. Give the ones who want to pay a service they can use, without being strictly better than anything a free player could get on their own. Some sort of limitation on the cash option, an advantage on the free option, or make it simply a matter of scale.

Like, say, everyone can reroll their latest circle as many times as they want. But there’s a cash item to completely remove it (and then reroll the previous circle for free).

Or everyone can reset one circle a month, but tokens can reset two.

Or what was mentioned before, a reset circle takes much more exp to level up than it would have if you picked it naturally.

A similar system in other games is saving builds. Everyone can hotswap circles in and out as they please, to the point where they can level up every single class at once. Then you have a cash item to save copies of the same circle, or a complete configuration all at once instead of having to pick one at a time.

With any solution they could find, there’s already incentives for making alts. Collections, TP, and tokens are account-wide, along with team storage. Each character has their own dungeon limit. I wish achievements carried over to some degree, though.

1 Like