Tbh IMC’s planned changes for PS sounds far better than anything I’ve read in here.
In case you missed it, they said they were gonna make it do more dmg based off the target’s defence. Sounds like Occult Impact/Investigate from RO. I like this.
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Yeah I know about it. I’ve mentioned it in a previous post here. If it’s anything like inqui’s MM then it’s not much. I’m sure you know how high atk can reach compared to how high monster def is. Dp’s x2 will still do way more damage than a x1 mod + enemy def. Also note that this is gonna be based on rank 5 content (I’m comparing to barb changes being balanced around content they are introduced in).
Both HK and PS are pretty pointless because of gear atk + x2 mod from dp. HK at least gets some use because of armor break, but there are better sources for that.
The only thing they need to do with PS and HK to increase their damage - by a lot, so you don’t actually lose DPS for casting it instead of DP. Then improving on their secondary effect on top of that would actually make them good skills.
They don’t have to be crazy OP, just not useless. Imagine if the initial hit of PS did around 60-70% of God Smash for example. Or Maybe keep it low but make the bleed damage more significant. From there, even if it simply ignored defence it’d be a very potent skill, especially for PvP.
You see what I’m getting at? Monk skills just need hit harder, not given fancy utility stuff or changing damage type etc.
Ok… Imma make a list.
- It’s still a DPS increase because you would get bonus damage (that scales with your atk and is not some flat additional skill damage) based on matching armor type.
- It’s not OP because it will be doing the same damage as DP (less considering there are more strike debuffs)
- It does not change the current playstyle of the monk (in that you spam DP 24/7)
- It is not fancy utility.
The only requirement this fails is the damage type changing.
I wasn’t calling your suggestion OP, it’s the opposite. Changint them to anything other than Strike is a huge nerf.
As for playstyle… why would you want to make Monks soooo boring by cloning one skill 3 times.
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Yes it would be stupid to give them 3 different type of attacks Pierce/Strike and Slash on their skills really??? lol
Monks got their debuffs base on Strike so why give them Slash and Pierce LMAO…You want a nerf more than a buff I guess
Monk will surely die.
I know. I’m looking at this as a whole and not at optimal party comps where you have access to all debuffs. I mean just look at the base numbers. Oh, and by the way, when I said “the same as DP” I’m not excluding the debuff DP applies.
DP = 2x + 2(725) = 2x + 1450
HK = x + 1908
PS = x + 1998
Place them side by side and you get
2x + 1450 = x + 1908 -> x = 458 for HK
2x + 1450 = x + 1998 -> x = 548 for PS
That is how small an atk value you need for DP to pull away from both skills in terms of damage. We are way past that at rank 8 and we can be sure we go even further in the future.
Even if HK and PS stay strike, they are still going to fall way behind DP just because DP has steeper slope than HK & PS. The only way to balance this is to make both HK and PS as steep as DP. THEN you tweak.
Even with full debuffs, with how far ahead DP is, you would still just spam DP.
- This isn’t about making monk interesting. It’s about bringing the rest of the kit in line with DP. Flavor can come later when all the skills are on the same level.
- How is pressing 3 keys on CD any less boring than pressing 1 key? 111123 repeat is just as boring as 1 repeat. There is no “thought” required in either case. Both cases are “Is the skill off cd? If yes press the key. If no move on to the next skill.”
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Er how about when you should use a skill, instead of mindless spamming? E.g Time the Armor Break debuff to coincide with burst, or save the harder hitting CD skills for JP etc.
In this case, Tree of Savior’s lack of scaling is a huge problem since it relies on base damage more than player build choice. Which in turn, well, the game just kind of makes its choices for you based on math. Just increasing damage and washing your hands on the matter thinking you are done… That’s not how game design/development works. If it was, then there is no need for higher ranks of other classes. There is a serious lack of meaningful player choice in the game, which is a solid reason why 90% of the player base have quit, amongst other things like bad net code, etc.
If you want simply more damage, why take any new class at higher ranks? Why should any class pick Inquis at rank 8, when you could just pick Monk at rank 5, and it does the same damage? By all means, disagree like I’m sure you will, but Blizzard, Riot games, etc, all very often have said that “just flat number increases are easy, but it doesnt solve a problem of a poorly designed/balanced class.” Otherwise, they wouldnt even bother with making extended changes if it were just a number tweak.
Here is an short talk by Matthias Worch, someone who worked on a lot of huge games of what good design/balance is and it applies to more than just level design, but often the rewards that the best games give that make the great games great.
For damage, all they honestly have to do is have proper scaling on stats with moves, and change Iron Skin not to have the same design space as GBS, and it will honestly be a much better class. But there is so much more they can do to fulfill the monk fantasy. I.E. Everyone wants to double punch instead of swing a hammer and dagger, so make double punch your auto attack as baseline.
Im really happy with the changes the dev’s have proposed so far in the last 3 balance talks, they just need to rework Iron Skin, change it so we can punch as a normal auto to fulfill class fantasy, and add scaling.
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This guy gets it. High five. 
I guess you also missed the part where they said they are reworking on how damage/defence is calculated too.
What burst? Is this a party setting again? You mention JP so it must be a party setting. There are other more reliable (HK armor break is not 100%) sources for 0 def. If you are talking with your team (voice chat) then you are coordinated enough to know to use the other sources of (100%) 0def debuffs.
If you are in a PUG, you don’t control when armor break lands if you are the only source. How do you “time” something you have no control over?
What harder hitting CD’s? Even the devs acknowledge that DP is just so far ahead they understand why people just spam DP. There is NO “harder hitting skills” to save “anything” for.
Is this a party setting again? If so then that gap between DP and everything else in the monk kit is going to widen even more due to debuffs. If you are coordinated enough that you have the important debuffs, DP is the only thing you use.
- What they say and what they do (as seen from their history regarding very vague announcements) can have so many things going on between them.
- We (as the side that does not know the inner workings of IMC) can only react with the information available to us. The line “We are reworking stuff” gives 0 information (not even a timeline, cuz we know they can’t give those out) to work with.
What Monk needs right now
Iron Skin and GBS usage increase
More Damage
Can turn energy blast using keyboard
And Iron Skin and GBS buff, its sucking right now for C3 Monk!
If rank 8 content monsters and r8 base damages werent so ridiculously skewed, it wouldnt be a problem. The difference/damage gap between R7 and R8 content just invalidates every other damage class else below R8 in the game. I dont think monk needs higher damage, I think Rank 8 needs to be dialed down, and scaling needs to be added not just to monk, but to many other classes. (like what they did for priests’ blessing.)
I really don’t understand your mentality. This is an MMO, it’s meant for party play. The majority of content is party play and yet you speak like only solo matters.
How hard is it to look/listen for something like JP/HK before unleashing your skills. You don’t need voice chat for that.
What harder hitting CD’s you ask? Like I suggested - make PS/HK do more damage so they hit hard. Also your entire kit isn’t limited to Monk skills only.
You’re right about them not keeping their word tho.
I’m starting to thing you’re just a casual solo player tho tbh. Have you experienced end-game yet? Tried some GvG? Daily missions or the quest grind isn’t all there is to this game.
The fact you try and invalidate others reasons for playing a game based on the fact its different than your own reasons or opinions is very narrow-sighted. Essentially you are saying, “If you are different than me, you are wrong/bad/casual/ignorant/uninformed/etc.” That’s a poor outlook.
OMG I’ve been using the wrong word. Parabolic is not what I want. 2x != x^2. I want the word slope. Sorry everyone , will edit the previous posts accordingly.
Yes. I know. But for a class to work it has to work by itself first. When that happens, then you can look at the group. By looking at the group first, you purposely build the monk “incomplete” by needing everybody else. You have to start in the beginning, not the middle, not the end.
I said “if” you are “that coordinated” (you care about party comps, buffs, debuffs, you use voicechat) . Also, the context behind my JP reply was about “saving your skills” (aka burst) when there are “no skills to save” because DP >>> all.
You can increase the base damage of HK and PS all you want. When the next rank comes in and brings with it the next power creep, DP will pull ahead again (because DP has a steeper slope).
You can increase skill values all you want, but all that does is move the blue line up. As you increase ranks (x-axis) there will always be the point where DP will again over take HK & PS. So when r9 comes and brings with it the next set of weapons, DP will overtake HK & PS again. Do we increase HK & PS base damage again? What about r10? At that point both HK &PS become too strong for r5-7 (which happens to be the ranks you get the entire monk kit).
… this has been about improving the monk kit from the start. It was pretty clear. The exception would be lama, but that was under the assumption that it would be a hidden class for monk (AKA monk4).
If you wanna go there, the monk becomes pointless because I can assume r9 and above are coming with more and better physical skills. Why would anyone waste time on a r5-7 cd when the rotation is already filled with r8-up cd’s? Filler? That’s what DP is for, at which point even DP could be replaced.
Woohoo! I got 1 right 
Don’t do that. That is the sign of someone who wants to “insult” they way to a “win”. This is dialog we want IMC to read and “this” is what IMC see’s to say “nope”.
I have played the 300 content. I’ve dabbled in a little bit of everything. I don’t pursue anything higher because there is nothing different there except “bigger numbers”.
What is the difference between:
- killing wb cerberus and wb raxipher - bigger numbers
- alemeth grind and timerys grind - bigger numbers
- purple 315 and orange 315 - bigger numbers (color
) - ET5F and ET35F - bigger numbers
- grynas and hasta - bigger numbers
- 2v2 and 5v5 - bigger numbers
I am not so inept that I cannot connect the dots. The only thing carrying lower rank skills are their multipliers and the huge power creep in gear.
Look at what happened with agny. It made pyro relevant in r8 content. Also look at the different modifiers attached to agny regarding pyro skills. Basically, FB has a x3.8 mod with a fast pulse while FG has a x2.8 modifier with a slow pulse. If each skill can kill in 1 use, guess which 1 is getting used.
Now I will proceed to edit my other posts to change parabolic to steeper slope.
do u have any idea on how to improve iron skin?
You make it sound so complex. What if they just gave PS/HK a %PATK modifier? E.g 500% PATK.
This way, as our PATK goes up through levels and gear, the skill damage goes up accordingly too. If PS/HK has a higher modifier than DP, wouldn’t they out dmg it? I’m pretty noob at math so correct me if I’m wrong.