Psycho 2 is great on it own and I bet cryo 2 is too…
just cause the 3rd circle is an improvement, it doesn’t make the c2 a bad circle 
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I’m not saying its “bad”, i’m saying its not worth getting. A cryo 2/ psycho 2 is really no different than a cryo 1/ psycho 1. Cryo’s get sub zero shield and gust. Not really worth sub zero shield level 5 and gust at rank 2 (which people only take 1 point in).
Psycho 2 gets magnetic force which again, people only take 1 point into and isn’t really used that much other than for mobbing purposes.
I was going to answer that comment, but @DrRM already said it all
I’d just add that cryo 2 has enough icewalls HP and quantity, you get Subzero shield too, so even if c3 is an improvment, c2 is already good on it’s own
It’s true that the ice tree and snowrolling are awesome, but that only means that cryo c3 is awesome, it doesn’t make c2 useless
Kino c2 gets more PP targets, and stun Attribute
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If i may put it this way
kino3>cryo3>kino2/cryo2>kino1/cryo1 in terms usefulness
This is what i answered to DrRM, I stand by what I said and say its not "Worth it:. You taking C1 on Cryo/ C1 on Psycho VS C2 Its Almost the same thing. Especially for cryo if you wanted more ice walls you can just get an Audra and SAVE a WHOLE circle. I’d say that Cryo 2 has more use than Psycho 2, I could understand if you went Cryo 2> Psycho 1 But I don’t see any EFFICIENT builds using Psycho 2.
imo its Kino3>Cryo3>Cryo2>Kino2=Kino1/Cryo1.
But if we add other classes into the equation.
Anyother class + Kino 1/ Cryo 1 > Kino 2/Cryo 2
For example If you decide on C2 Wiz + 1 Kino VS 2 Kino.
Basically saying Surespell VS magnetic force. Id take Surespell.
Link + Kino 1 VS Kino 2.
Linker skill set VS Magnetic Force. I’d take linker.
The list goes on. What im saying is, if you are taking circle 2 of Cyro /Psycho You might as well take circle 3, because at Circle 3 ITS GOD LIKE, while circle 2 of the respective classes are mediocre at best.
Using audra means you get restricted in weapon choice, and won’t be able to use subweapons
With cryo c2 you build 11 walls and can only hit 9 targets with PP
Cryo 2 kino 2 means you’ll have less utilitty and a stronger burst
And since it’s only 4 of 6 choices on your tree it’s good enough
You would only weapon use audra when using ice wall, you can switch back after its casted (Classic RO weapon swap scenario).
Ice wall level 7 gets you 8 walls PP level 5 allows you to hit 9 targets, are you saying that 3 Ice wall/pressure is worth wasting 2 circles on o_O
No, i’m not, that wasn’t my only comment on this topic. .-.
And off course, i think you know in the scenario you’re creating you’re also considering you couldn’t use audra on c2 cryo
Adding it in the equation is adding it on both cases
I just meant you don’t rely on it with c2 cryo
xD My point is, I strongly believe that getting JUST the 2nd circle in Cryomancer and Psykino is not worth it because of how little the 2nd circle differentiates from the 1st circle, whilst the 3rd circle being SO MUCH BETTER.
As I said, Cryo 2, sub zero shield with 20 seconds down time leaves you with a huge gap in your defense in PvP, In most cases your gonna be hitting at most 10 walls, the 16 wall combo is incredibly hard to pull off.
PP already hits 9 targets if you are just getting C2 Kino PP to hit more walls, is it really worth 1 circle? Because the rest of the Kino skills is pretty bad lets be honest, Teleport? 1 Point, Magnet Force? 1 Point? Swap? 1 Point Telekinesis (I max it at circle 3 just for the hold in pvp) But is it THAT useful? Not really.
I mean you could use audra with circle 2, that gets you 13 walls, but its very difficult to PP all 13 walls, I’d say for the MAJORITY, they will only hit 10 walls.
You are sacrificing 2 circles worth of other class potential by getting a minor increase in damage in icewall/PP combo. Because everything else in C2 of each class apart from sub zero is pretty much moot.
The problem is that you’re comparing c2 with c3 and not c3 + c1 with c2 + c2
C3 cryo with c1 kino means you won’t be optimizing your walls
C3 kino with c1 cryo means a smaller burst DMG (specially if you consider Rune caster)
As i already said, DMG wise you’re good with c2c2
Getting stun and more hits on kino c2 is a good reason, better telekinesis and magnetic force is also a plus
C2 cryo means more icewalls, and most of the time you’re hitting 11 icewalls**, and you take only 2 seconds to do the return trick to hit more walls
The duration on Subzero can also be increased with audra
And again, i enfasize, you’re only losing utility, DMG wise you’re good, specially because you still have 2 other class choices
Comparison without Audra
Cyro C2 + Psycho C2 VS Cryo c1 + Psycho C3
11 wall/PP combo and subzero shield at 30 seconds VS 6 wall/PP combo + raise and magnetic pole (which does amazing damage) Raise + Magnetic pole adds up to 20 seconds of AoE crowd control .
Or similarly Cryo 2 + Psycho 2 VS Cryo 3 + Psycho 1
11 wall PP combo and sub zero shield at 30 seconds VS 9 wall ppl combo (only 2 less walls) + Frost Pillar + Snow Rolling + 45 seconds of sub zero shield (only 5 seconds of down time)
We’re gonna ignore most skills including magnetic force of Psycho because it’s impact of negligible.
Going Cryo2/Kino 2 just for more Ice wall/PP combo damage is overshadowed by going Cryo 3/Kino 1. You lose out on 2 ice walls while getting 2 extra skills which is just way more usefull. As well as the latter of Kino3/Cryo 1 where you lose out on 5 tiles of icewall damage but gain level 15 PP, and Magnetic force to make up for the loss in damage.
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You get a way restricted area to shoot, with a smaller burst, and walls HP is a joke, with c2 the walls dies 1~2 seconds before the 15 seconds duration, it’s a HUGE burst difference (again, specially if you consider Rune caster)
As i said, you’re trading DMG for utility basically
Cryo c3 kino c1 is a good choice, specially of you consider runecaster, but it still have a ~20% weaker burst, which means c2c2 still not a bad choice, depending on what you want to build, and i do think the utility you get from this c3c1 this case is better, but it doesn’t make c2c2 a bad choice
Yes the damage from the wall is huge, but I think the damage from level 15 PP and Magnetic pole will make up for the damage loss.
You have to remember that icewall/pp combo damage CANNOT be upgraded by attributes, while you can get PP + Magnetic pole to 100% more damage in attribute, this is why I said and will strongly stand by being against c2 Cryo and c2 Kino because you are relying on the icewall/PP combo as your WHOLE source of damage without having any utility or without having really anything to do when that combo is on cool down. Obviously when you get to rank 6/7 you will have other spells to use depending on which ones you choose, but its still “Not as good” as a C3 Cryo/Kino + C1 Cryo/Kino.
Not saying its Bad I think i’ve stated before, just not as good as the latter. If you like sub optimal builds, its your choice to go that route.
If you think about utility
Kino3 vs Psy3
Psy3 probably has better control cos Raise is a guaranteed 10s cc if you can land it whilst frost pillar… ive seen pvp videos where people got sucked in to just jump right out of it… (i guess its a good skill in a narrow corridor)
Snow rolling is also a good CC i guess but 68s cooldown compared to gravity pole 30s cooldown which is also a CC and damage. The only downside of pole is probably that you can to stand still and it can be interrupted.
I think the whole point of Kino is that you need to have good positioning and timing to make your skills most effective. Its a very rewarding class if u get positioning and timing correct but quite punishing if u missed them.
As for cryo3, it is very good no doubt, but it is only utility whilst psy3 provide utility AND damage.
I mean its great if u go cryo3 and kino3 but if you have to give up one for the other I would pick Kino3 over cryo3 and drop cryo to C2. I wouldnt drop it to C1 cos “C2 cryo is a waste” or “C2 cryo is useless” because it is not. Like someone pointed out, just because C3 is better and most people think that , doesnt mean C2 is “not good” or “useless” especially if u are picking an option to cover up for missing out cryo c3 (raise, pole for mob control; warlock rank7 for more damage)
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Even without 400% ice DMG (100+300%) from Rune caster, PP and pole 100% upgraded won’t make up for lv 10 icewalls pp
And i’m pretty much considering DMG wise, which would include runecaster that i repeated a lot of times…
I can pretty much 1-shot mission bosses with c2 cryo - c1 kino runecaster
Also, runecaster’s ice Rune increased ice DMG, including ledas shield and hats, which would also include on each icewall tick, meaning the icewall hp, and quantity is really important
The same way you could get Warlock for kino, you get runecaster for cryo
I’m going to sleep, and i made my points, so see you atound folks xD
ZzzzzZzZzz
Sure I guess. But then you are limiting yourself to PvE, that build is pretty useless in PvP. If you wanted optimal icewall/pp burst why not just go Cryo 3 Psy 2 Rune caster??? x.x
Also if you cant one shot mission bosses with cryo 2 psy 1 NO RUNE CASTER. your doing something wrong.
xD
there are so many choices i hate it so im using the “costume” as one of the pro of going to another class xD!!!
i dont like runecaster costume and huge cast time so no . lol
I like warlock tho :D, so I have to give up cryo3 or kino3 X_X dilemma X_X