how effectice is Increase Magic DEF in PVP?
like how much magic damage reduction (%) ?
No it doesnātdoesnāt. No mage class have a single missile attack, only magic attacks.
You said that it counters only archers. But the only other class relying ob PATK (aside from rare cleric builds) is swordsman. So I assume you want the passive to work with melee attacks as well?
Talking about rogue, itās now impossible to kill anyone with backstab alone. So if 70% of or toolkit is weaker then itās called ācounteringā. BTW QS will deal more damage with his autos alone then rogue3 with all of his(rogue) skills.
I was focused on swordsman because magic damage is designed to be unblockable. So when talking about class with block passive there are only 2 classes involved: arch and swordsman.
And anyway, QS is designed more for PvP(despite that it became #1 PvE archer already). So complaining about itās weakness to magic attacks has no point, since itās equal weakness of all classed. And QS will win vs ANY non QS archer class in the arena (and it even has tierdown Dievdirby statue attr), so it fulfills itās role of anti-archer class perfectly.
Depends on enemies, but I think itās up to 25% against weak skills. (And around 10% against strong). If you go Full SPR ofc.
I donāt remember how they name it for Magic, but itās still long-range attack, I was not talking about physical or magical. IMC games named QS as the long-range counters, but they donāt counter Mageā¦
This is why I was talking about the dagger. But it is possible to kill someone with backstab alone, if you have a good build. And PvP is like PvE in this game, you need people to being more powerful. So Swordman, Mage and Clerci wont give a f*ck about your QS3 and eat it. QS only counters Archer, so itās pointless in PvP, or only in 1v1. But all 1v1 in this game is unbalanced.
Not really unblockable.
More designed for PvP, but still anti-archer only.
LOL. Equal weakness of all class. Yes, Cleric are super weak against magic attacks, like Mage ā-ā, like Swordmanā¦ Cleric has something to deny any skill, Mage has something to protect himself and his team from damages and reflecting them at the same time, Swordman has no reason to give a f*ck about you because they are natural tanks. And then, you have Archerā¦ poor victims :p. QS is designed to be a tank against long-range attack, but they only counter Archer. Mage is a class that use tons of magic long-range attack :/.
Noā¦ They donāt have 100% chance to block and the arena is not a 1v1.
Iām not saying QS should be able to block magic, it would be a must have class in this case. But if they are designed to be tanky about long-range they should have something against magic.
Just saying any other class has something that counters everything.
Proof?
If we are talking about 5vs5 arena, then itās impossible.
Cleric and Mage will eat any archer and swordsman in PvE, no matter QS3 it or not. Onlt those Swordsman3Cata3Dragoons have a chance. But if you mean that QS3 is weaker in PvP then other archers, you are wrong. Itās autoattack damage is not to be underestimated. Right now not QS is pointless in PvP but almost any other class.
You canāt block magic damage. But it wonāt deal damage to you if you are immune to damage because of depotected zone/revive.
And QS are natural DD, thatās why mages, swordsman and clerics should protect them with CC/Shields/Immunity, lol. Itās true for every MOBA and in most MMOs. The problem is overall weakness of physical damage due to Stone Skin and company.
Itās totally incorrect statement. QS never was designed to be a tank, even vs missile attacks.
It was designed for OCCASIONAL [missile] attack deflection with shield/pavise, zone control with Caltrops and CC with Stone Shots. So you can hide behind pavise and shoot on enemy archers proteced by a wall. But if someone casts a meteor on your head, then you are not supposed to block it. Being able to counter other archers IS an advantage.
I hope you wonāt say that Musketeers are designed to kill small mobs with autoattacks just because they have 1% instant kill passive?
Or that Featherfoot is designed to use potions just because it has potion effect increase passive?
They designed so tey are better against archers then other archers. Itās only true fact about them. Everything else is your own statements.
If you played something like LoL you should now that for carry having passive to recieve 30% less damage from ranged autoattacks would be very great, just becaus they will win every fight against enemy carry. And this block passive is just insignificant QS passive, because QS is 99% about Running Shot, Stone Shot and Deploy Pavise, and only 0.5% about blocking missile damage.
And yes, QS is the best or second best archer class for PvE right now. I wonder if you havenāt see vids with 4 QS + Chaplain killing bosses in 10 seconds and just running forward without stopping obliterating anything on their path.
So complaining that one of the best and funniest PvE classes is not amongst the best PvP classes is not the best idea. There are already lots of classes that are lesss then mediocore in BOTH PvP and PvE, like Sadhu, Oracle, Pyro, Rodelero, Scout, Hunter, Rogue, Pardoner, Falconer and Squire. All those classes are no more then fillers for other classes. In most builds itās not worth taking more then 1 class slot in them and for some of them (like Sadhu/Hunter) even 1 class slot is rarely useful.
So complaining about classes that are already great at something(like QS) sounds ridiculous to me.
It was written in game Ā°.Ā°".
It is possible o_O. But not every time, I have to agree with that.
Lol, this is so wrong. Did you have a character with more than 100 lvl ?
Saying you can counter their gameplay doesnāt mean they are weaker.
+1
Wow o_o"ā¦
This is a way to block it, a nulification. Still ranged spells :p.
But this is Tree Of Savior, not any MMO/MOBA. This is not a reason.
Blue icon O_Oā¦ Itās a tank iconā¦ Your statement is obviously incorrect.
Or written in the game (maybe you didnāt play it).
Whatās your rank on League of Legends ? This would help me to understand why you compare something uncomparable.
1 QS is still strong, Iām saying they could be better. Now talking about 4QS is pointless. See how you have to bring 4QS to prove you are right ?
No, 4QS are fun, solo QS is not (in PvE). But what is this ābest ideaā ?
Yeh, there are many things more important than QS right now, but itās not a reason to forget them. Worst reason ever.
Sadhu, Oracle, Pyro, Scout mediocre in PvE ??? I agre with others.
And saying they donāt need any rework because there are more classes which are needing a rework is ridiculous.
Show on the doll where imc hurt you 
I think it might be a simple mistranslation. Anyway from their passive QS is obviously [missile] type damage counter class.
I mean, backstab deals quite low damage, and damage in arena is halved. You can damage the enemy and then kill him with 2xbackstab+vendetta, but rogue skills wonāt deal enough damage by themselves.
My bad, Iāve misspelled. I meant PvP ofc.
Again, it somehow āeatenā part of text (Iāve replied with a phone). I meant, āalmost any other physical damage classā.
I agree it can be considered block, but there are no specific mechanic to block magic (like block and evasion). There are ways that can nullify any damage though. *Only exception is slithering, but itās not too reliable.
What I mean, if archer class had means to protect itself from any ranged threats it would be too good as a class. And MOBA usually use 5 vs 5 model and have quite a good balance, so I think it was a good example to explain how things work.
Not tank but ādefensiveā. And QS have some defensive means like Caltrops, Pavise, Stone Shot. So itās a defensive class. Two more examples are Cryomancer and Paladin. They have some defensive means like Subzero Shield, Barrier, Ice Wall, cryo shield mastery, Snow Rolling, Resist Elements and Restoration. But those skill donāt let them tank, just provide some extra protection.
D4.
What I mean, they donāt even need a tank or specific party setup to be super effective. You can just pack some QS and be succesfull. [quote=āsoldatazur, post:66, topic:144183ā]
No, 4QS are fun, solo QS is not (in PvE). But what is this ābest ideaā ?
[/quote]
Best idea is buffing/reworking classes that really do need buffs. You are the first person to complain about QS Iāve ever seen. Actually QS is the most popular archer class right now (I think itās even more popular then ranger). So if you feel like it needs buffs, then maybe you just played it in a wrong way. I donāt see any reason to rework it as all of itās abilities are useful and it scales super good in late game. And if you get a proper party like 3QS+Chaplain+ChronoC3/LinkerC3 (maybe rank8 both), get a crossbow granting +2 to all QS skills, Monster gem and Divine might buff, it will be ridiculously strong (360% bonus(!) damage with insane attack speed). It IS the class with the highest (by far) single target DPS in PvE.
So reworking a class that is best in certain field is really the last thing IMC should do.
I know they were nice in CBT, but after all the balance changes they are outscaled pretty hard. Pyro sucks in late game, Scout is C1 only (though C3 skill is good, but you need to go through too much of trash to get it), Orcale is simply outscaled by lots of classes (his buffs are semi useless). And C2 just sucks.
Sadhu is outscaled even harder. It has an interesting mechanic but it was nerfed too hard. And it simply has too few abilities to chose from (just as scout).
But yeah, this is just my opinion.
are you nuts kanser03?
this is not WoW this is a game that wants to make you feel the good old time. You are not from that timeā¦leave pls.
@ Class blanaceā¦dats a normal prob and OB = still beta - without wipes
but still beta and they are doing a good job
2 Likes
Ofc, it sounds a little bit obvious.
Mistranslationā¦
zzz, Iām too bored to repeat myself another time. Not only your phone āeatenā part of text.
Still not saying they should be invincibleā¦ LONG-RANGE COUNTER ONLY. MOBA usually use 5vs5 on a map where you need to protect your base and to destroy the enemyās nexus. Nothing comparable to a basic 5v5.
So you just picked the wrong exemple. Where LoL is interesting is in the gameplay of every Champions, but classes of ToS can be everything at the same time. A Champion in LoL can be a Mage/Support for exemple, but they canāt be a Mage/Assassin/Support/Tank/Fighter/Bruiser etcā¦
āNot tank but ādefensiveāā. Iām not sure if Iām dreaming or not. Nah Cleric are not healer, they are āsupportiveā. Tank is defensive, defensive is tank.
So what is a tank for you ? Because here you are saying even Paladin is not a tank. What is a tank in ToS as well ? Blue, Green and Red icons are not here for nothing. This is how you can see IMC failed on QS, meant to be long-range counter + tank icon, and you are proving they are unable to do it and saying they are amazing as a DPS at the same time.
So a rework is not about a up on every spell, itās a rework to let them do what they were supposed to do (and stop picking those damn stones by the way). Iām not a big fan of classes you canāt build as you want, but here there is a big problem on QS you pointed by yourself.
Same here, and you are a LoL player + D4. You should understand that sometimes, a rework is not only to help or to destroy a Champion, just to give him a way to do what heās supposed to do.
I donāt get your point here, and you are certainly new to this forum because the most popular global Archer topic was about QS for a looooooong time.
A rework. And again, itās not a buff only because you rework it. Itās a way to balance the class. I didnāt play it wrong, trust me, the DPS in PvE was insane even if it was on a single target, like you said. But, hey, I picked the class for something else.
Did you read recent patchs on LoL ? Is your statement true about KogāMaw ? Ofc he was supposed to be a marksman anyway (maybe not a canon glass). This certain field is not (again) what QS would be able to do.
Oh yes, I forget about this ā-ā.But not everyone is playing this game for the late game. Iāll test it for Sadhu but I think they are still good in PvE.
Mistranslation missile->ranged.
Teamfights are the same.
Tank is the one who eats up damage. Healer is the ones who heal.
So for example peltasta is tank. Paladin is not (itās defensive support).
Cleric is healer. Chronomancer is offensive support. There is a reason between tank and defensive class.
99% of the reworks I remember were made to make champions more popular, thatās all. 1% were made to remove uncounterrable mechanics (like AP Yi).
But I doubt there were mostly complains.
Havenāt played for 3 months already. So not sure what you mean. Kog was outclassed long ago by Lucian and Co. And they remade it to true artillery as I remember. And now it has the lowest winrate among ADCās. So you want them to make it protected vs ranged physical and magic damage instead of running shot, but get -50% damage boost like on peltasta High Guard? It will turn into a tanky ranged archer but will deal no damage.
I think theyād rather leave it as it is. Pavise is enough to be a ātankyā class. And to not pick stones constantly get it to lvl 5 at least. It fulfills itās role and counters archers. Thatās all it should do. But it does even more: as rank 2 class it deals the highest damage comparable even to rank 7 classes damage.
IMC wouldnāt rework class simply because 2 people on the server imagined it differently.
2 Likes
Personally, I enjoyed my Cleric in iCBT2 and Iām looking forward to the faster leveling, not losing my progress and being able to play indefinitely so I donāt feel obligated to log in every day to make the most of its availability. Not to mention my friends who didnāt get in both CBTs will finally be able to play.
Am I hyped? No. But only because I know that misery from so many other releases I waited on, just like I didnāt grind to 150+ in CBT because āburnout before open betaā is a common issue from that.
Iām like 100% sure reworks are there to make the champions more competitive, yāknow to compete with other champs because theyāre so underwhelming OR just not mechanically up to date (In rare cases, they were too strong in the wrong areas like AP Trist b4 the rework).
So itās as @soldatazur says ājust to give him a way to do what heās supposed to do.ā
LCS/Streamers make champs popular.
But you canāt be sure of that /ffsā¦
No lol. Lvl, build, skills make all TF in LoL uncomparable to ToS. ToS is not a MOBA is this so hard to understand ?
Iām done with you xāDā¦ Paladin is a defensive supportā¦ Actually Paladin is a tank and is more a DPS than a support, but OK.
AP Yi, Tristana AP (KingSponge exemple), Sion AP, Poppy taking advantage of the Champion which makes no damages to be invincible in TF and throw the enemy base, Twitch overstrong thx to his hide, Evelynn overstrong thx to her hide + stack of solar cap, Darius too weak and unbalanced Q/R, DR.Mundo with a trash gameplay, Fiora unbalanced as f*ck, Gangplank trash gameplay, Gragas too much strong as a mage, Heimerding useless, Mordekaiser unbalanced, Nidalee ultra unblanced ā¦
QS has a trash gameplay and they are strong.
You are wrong.
Winrate/Lowrateā¦ ZZZā¦ Heās banned in every game so how people could change his w/l ? I doubt you are D4 to talk about w/l like that. Pros are the only players who can say if a champion is too powerful or not. If a Bronze first try Zed in ranked he will probably lose, if 500 Bronzes do the same thingā¦ you know what happens on the saint w/l.
Just sayin KogāMaw has been nerfed so yes, his winrate is now balanced like his popularity.
we all hyped and all but now we have a 3 month paywall to climbā¦