exactly what i been saying couple months ago, CON on a swordsman class is absolutely useless (unless their spec as a 100% full tank with a shield on)
with a full plate set and aspersion buffs, the monsters deal avg 1 dmg ~ 550 dmg and thats with 0 CON
in Ragnarok Online, Damage Redux is far better than HP/VIT… you have full VIT in PVP and you get 1 shot with a thana weapon
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
That’s because I don’t need to post my stats when talking about calculations. It’s completely irrelevant and adds nothing to the actual formulas.
But if you really want my stats then here ya go.
I’m stronger than you and I also have way more HP than you and you’re 20 levels higher than me. My weapon isn’t even enchanted.
The only thing you have over me is 10% more crit rate. I have a total of 41% crit rate. You have 51%.
I could also factor in my Squire buffs and boost my HP even higher if I wanted to. Pays off to have two chars over 200. I out DPS you in every single way including having 3 times your crit attack and having Cartar Stroke that deals a total of 8 hits. You can pull but you need to switch your weapons and you will lose your hp buff from swash buckling.
Before you go hurpderp I can pull and you can’t. I don’t care. I have 2 characters for that reason. 1 character for full out DPS and 1 character that’s a tank. I play a Barb/Doppel and a Squire/Templar. I play my squire and pull when people need me to tank. I hit over 40k of HP with buffs and there is no way in hell your pitiful 17k of HP is gonna out tank me. I know that for a fact lol.
Anybody can post their stats but in the end, it means nothing. I also hit over 10k per Cyclone, surprise.
Also before you go calling someone a retard:
It hits 3 times derp. You’ve been using Seism this long and you haven’t realized that?
Your entire statement is filled with contradictions. You need to get hit to activate DoV in the first place. The more you dodge, the more time you waste trying to build it.
All you did was prove that your DEX failed you and you’re almost dead from a couple of mobs.
Do you feel dumb now?
Barb seem to lack survival skill i think going dex is the right choice with this build
Im playing highlander doppel and my str is my life line tho
A significant factor most people supporting dex builds have yet to adress is monsters innate crit resistance.
Going dex is a sink because even end game, there are mobs you wont have 100 crit against, bosses especially. Granted, you tend to get more damage if you DO crit 100 percent of the time, but THE POINT OF RETURN INVESTMENTS IS FAR DEEPER THAN IS LET ON.
The fact youre going doppel makes me want to suggest str (deeds of valor op) on top of that, in future ranks itll scale even harder than now (80% for rank 8 and 90 for 9 and so on) plis dex will continue to be a sink as monsters get more and more resistance.
Stupidity can’t be cured, its endless and contagious, let them learn from their experience and pretty sure that someday they will admit putting CON is good and benifial either its pvp/pve.
CON
IS
ABSOLUTELY
USELESS
You put 100 points into CON
You are losing out on like 170 ~ 200 points on STR
That STR would benefit you in many more ways compared to what CON can do, CON doesn’t even increase physical defense
reading your previous posts i thought i ruined my lvl 60 s/h/b3/d2 by going 1:1 str/dex so far but i see that you have 111dex. is this just from items or did you screw up your build too by putting points into dex?
Seism doesn’t actually hit 3 times, it shows 3 hits but its calculation is literally
(Physical attack + Skill damage - Defense) x 1.7 (1.8 with 2h Spear/Sword)
Make it 2.2x (2.3x with 2h sword/spear) if you hit a Cloth armor enemy.
1.45x (1.55x with 2h Sword/Spear) if you hit a Plate/Ghost enemy.
Aka: Seism has a 70% damage modifier that’s how its damage is calculated. It’s damage is shown in 3 hits. Which is different from a skill that actually hits 3x (like Say Multi shot level 2) Which would do (Physical attack + skill damage - Defense) three times.
I was testing certain builds. I still have a stat reset potion but I will throw the rest of my points into STR once I get my 2nd sissel bracelet and higher lvl gems.
Very interesting and helpful data. I didn’t know that. Now the skill is a bit worse than I originally thought.
My favorite part of all your posting is that you never figured out Seism didn’t hit 3 times.
This game isn’t about DPS. It’s about killing mobs within abilities.
Does your 300 strength build all of a sudden kill 100k+ hp mobs in a Seism -> Cleave dual combo? No, because it’s mathematically impossible.
You won’t even kill 100k mobs in a 2x Seism -> Cleave, Zornhau, Zucken, Redel.
You will kill 100k hp mobs in a cyclone though. A full Dex build will do 100%+ of the mobs health. A full Strength build will do 110%. Either way, still requires 1 cyclone.
In the mean time, a full Dex build has way more EHP than strength.
Trying to build a DPS swordsmen is retarded. The class is mathematically designed to be inferior in every way to Archers/Wizards.
From the armor system that only melee follow, to multi hit skills, to cool down timers, to even aoe ratio that other classes don’t have to worry about.
Playing a dex character with 50% evasion and over 20k hp is actually pretty enjoyable. You literally give zero ■■■■■ about 90% of mobs in the game.
I don’t know why varuna compares my Doppel with his Templar. If he wants, we could both go stand with 10 elite mobs around us and see how long each lasts. I’m sure I would be able to last as long as him if not close. I mean, it’s not even possible for me to take that much damage from bees like in his picture; I would just evade it all. The thing is, I have damage on my character while he doesn’t on his Templar, even though we would be able to take the same amount? Now if we compare our Doppels, he will outright faceplant first because he has no evasion. His increase in HP compared to mine doesn’t even make up for the rate of damage he will take 100% in higher level areas in the slightest. Now, if he were to play a high evasion character he would see this, but he doesn’t. I’ve already mentioned this.
This is just speculation, but varuna’s doppel isn’t done Resident Quarter quests at 226. I was done them at 200. Could it possibly be because he couldn’t dodge and just took too much damage to complete them constantly dying? Just might not have gotten to doing them, or could be my wild idea.
So testing out, I sat in Evac with a mob hitting me 10 times. I dodged 9, took 1 hit of 1k damage. If this were a low DEX character, they would’ve taken close to all 10 hits for 10k damage. Now unless you have 10x more HP than me, you are NOT a better tank. Not to mention your damage is now garbage. Like I said, max HP is only useful against bosses or PVP. Just go into a Saalus mission and you’ll see.
And I’ve already brought up the thread maker is going Peltasta as I have. If I really really wanted to tank, I just throw up my shield and hold the C button. As compared to a build that CAN’T do this? Do I really need to sacrifice points into CON? As a peltasta that can block almost 100% damage? No. That’s not the way to go. It’s because I have shield guard I’m able to remain low CON, because what does Max HP do when you take 0 damage in the first place? Against magic mobs? I’d probably have a healer with me so I don’t even have to worry. Again, it’s all dependant on the situation and play style. Against a boss that does magic? Face it, all magic bosses at this point do wide AoE damage so “tanking” doesn’t even apply. Your party will still die even if you had all the aggro, so what’s the point with all of your points in CON? Not to mention you have crap damage to help kill it.
Of course STR out-DPS DEX, that’s the whole point of going STR. Not once did I say a heavier DEX build would do more damage than a heavier STR build. It’s just not a whole deal better. Nor is it viable at this stage of the game where survivability weighs a heavier factor.
So what’s the real point in choosing the build I went? In anticipation that a new class with a bunch more attack skills will benefit from Warcry/Frenzy/Deeds. That’s really the only hope keeping barbarian->doppel going. Otherwise, you would be better off making a hoplite->dragoon if you really wanted to deal better damage, but that’s off-topic.
It does hit 3 times. It’s just that the hits are divided instead of multiplied. Also, that was recently just found out. Hilarious if you think you honestly knew this before anyone could datamine the actual modifiers lol. It was found out by modders, not you.
But this is coming from a guy who claimed he made the excel sheet my guildmate posted. You’re completely full of it.
All you do is come on the forums trying to convince yourself that your build isn’t completely screwed up but regardless, you still come here trying to give out the worst possible advice and trying to argue against my completely legitimate posts.
There’s a reason why nobody wants swordsman with 15k of HP in their parties at level 240+ content. You’re another baddie and stop posting bad info.
[quote=“eyzs07, post:54, topic:271883, full:true”]
I don’t know why varuna compares my Doppel with his Templar. If he wants, we could both go stand with 10 elite mobs around us and see how long each lasts. I’m sure I would be able to last as long as him if not close. I mean, it’s not even possible for me to take that much damage from bees like in his picture; I would just evade it all. The thing is, I have damage on my character while he doesn’t on his Templar, even though we would be able to take the same amount? Now if we compare our Doppels, he will outright faceplant first because he has no evasion. His increase in HP compared to mine doesn’t even make up for the rate of damage he will take 100% in higher level areas in the slightest. Now, if he were to play a high evasion character he would see this, but he doesn’t. I’ve already mentioned this. [/quote]
Are you gonna cry like a baby? You’re the one saying “blahblah you don’t even play doppel” then you go on posting your stats like it matters lol. Nobody cares. All you morons do is try to argue and compare your ■■■■ size. I don’t care how you play the game, nor do I give a damn what you build.
I’m just stating the complete fking obvious. Just don’t go around recommending swordsman invest in 0 CON. Please, I swear to god. This is the reason why I don’t post in these retarded swordsman forums anymore. You don’t help, you don’t give any sort of relevant helpful information. All you guys do is say ■■■■ like I do 10k per cyclone woop look at me I’m 3k p.atk.
damage formula.
T2 modifier. Seism. 50%. Was increased to 70% somewhere down the line. That was around November 2015.
I never claimed anything. I said the spreadsheet he made was incorrect a few times so he modified it. I said I made my own spreadsheet following that damage formula, but was placing attributes as a T0 modifier, not after everything.
Once again, and I cannot cannot say this enough. Going strength will not increase your kill speed. You will still be required to use the exact same amount of skills in order to kill mobs. With Dex, you kill just as fast, but have 50% evasion.
DPS only matters for massive amounts of health. In which case you’re in a group clearing ET. And no one is going to fill a DPS slot with a swordsmen that does at the very least, 50% less damage than all other classes.
I’m not trying to convince anyone. I’m telling you, from experience, do not play a swordsmen that focuses on strength. You will regret your choice. Playing a character that dodges 90% of damage in this game with over 20k hp is actually quite fun.
Their changes to swordsmen in kTOS doesn’t even address the main issues, which are using modifiers, lack of multi-hit skills, cooldown timers, and scaling.
Tbh, dex for evasion is just for leveling. You can get a decent evasion rate from gear alone. Like 50%.
While i agree thats dex give you more ehp
But seriously as swordman its better to invest some point in to con
Around 30-40 still better than non
those of you who picked highlander instead of pelt for rank2, cant you activate DoV and then use cross guard to defend yourself to stack up those count then spin the mobs to death? unless crossguard is useless at higher levels. how come no one talked about cross guard and only dex vs con as a survival stat.
if lv5 crossguard is still useful at higher levels then i think con is better for survival. like 100 con then rest into str. if cross guard isnt good at higher levels, then its debatable between con vs dex. but i might still prefer con due to the fact that magic is unavoidable and would rather play cautiously. i’ll need more feedback on crossguard. cause going pelt seems to be gimping oneself just to be accepted in parties. but with pelt you get nice evasion buff which will benefit dex builds and that extra huge chunk of hp is nice too. but you can always switch to shield to block. DoV doesn’t require a 2h sword to work i think. neither does cyclone. i saw a video of a hop3 doppel1 using cyclone with a spear and shield. so does block still count as being hit? if it does then it can be used to defend yourself while building up DoV stacks. if not then better hope you have enough hp to take those hits.
crossguard scale with str not con (but not much)
also if i not wrong, when you block its cont as miss so no dov for you
crossguard is good for pvp with 8 sec root though
any doppel here that doesn’t rely on dex to survive late game? i heard deeds of valor will cause a doppel to die faster during late game. is 100 con enough to make use of DoV and still not be that brittle during late game? im a pure str build.
i have 129 CON and 55 DEX with MaxPeta at lvl 280 and rest are str. i’m using lvl 8 dov so its always up, and its ok having 30k hp and good dps. With the buff aspersio and plate equips this build is good enough on both surviving and dps’ing. Since at high levels end game areas most of the mobs are dealing magic damage, DEX is useless and having some extra HP is a life saver.
If i get a stat reset potion (from an event or …) i wil change my stats like ;
total 100 CON and 40 DEX with MaxPetamion and the rest are STR(now its 4xx and i want it 500)
Btw my build is s1-h1-b3-d2 and at rank 8 will be d3, i believe this is a pure dps swordsman build which is far better option for DPSing in entire swordsman tree. I’m not comparing with other classes, since all classes have different stances in the game and i dont understand why players complaining about only DPS of swordsman tree, as a swordsman we have our role in the game different then any other chars. I’m not gonna discus it here, since its not the place.
I’m not going to make calculations of any skill or stat here, i do solo against any mob/boss at any map. I survive, i kill and have fun. i hit 7k cyclone and 10k+ with helm chopper+cleave (before patch - i didnt really check after patch) and now with the latest patch i do really good damage with helmchopper+cleave+cyclone (cleave debuff and then cyclone is awesome) even in pvp i kill players easly if i get near to them. But at team battle league it is not difficult to get near of the other player since there are 10 players and opponent player cant focus just on you. All is strategy and experience.
i’m sorry if i made mistakes, English is not my first.
edit : And now with the patch tomorrow, STR wil give you Block Penetration.