Tree of Savior Forum

How relevant is Quicken for Chronomancers? Also, what about Backmasking?

Class and Rank Wizard
#1

Hi there. I’m planning on building a Chronomancer. My main focus is PVP, but I’m trying to make a viable PVE build as well.

Currently, this is how my build is meant to be : +++. Con/Int 2:1, probably. (I’ll actually decide on how much int I’m gonna get when I get to Chrono1)

PVE:

Pyro2 allows me to have some degree of autonomy to level. Linker helps that as well, more than I think Pyro3 would. Linker is also awesome at DGs. While my DPS prob wont be anything truly meaningful, It’ll help somewhat.

Chrono3 allows me to buff movespeed greatly (Haste) provides me with some CC (Stop + Slow), and a atkspeed buff (Quicken).

Question 1: How relevant is Quicken for PVE? How much party damage does it increase? How desired are Chronomancers for this abilty?

PVP:

Linker feels stupid to be allowed to PVP. Hangman’s knot can screw up with the enemies team positioning and joint penalty is just… Oh well.

Fire pillar + Flame Ground can hit ppl while they’re stopped. I don’t think that as Pyro2 I’ll be able to hitkill anyone, but it’s nice to chop down some of their HP while they’re CCed by Stop.

Stop is awesome. Huge area. Huge duration. I’m planning on Stop 5, so about 10 secs. Slow is almost a stun. Backmasking looks like some nice utility, but I read some people saying it was ■■■■. Haste makes your whole team quicker than your opponent’s.

Question 2: How relevant is quicken in the PVP scenario? Does base hit actually counts for a lot of damage? Does quicken increase that dmg a lot? And is backmasking actually useful?

I’m actually between these 2 Chrono Builds:

Stop 5
Slow 15
Haste 10
Reincarnate 1
Quicken 5
Backmasking 4
CooldownReset (forgot the name) 5

AND

Stop 5
Slow 13/14
Haste 10
Reincarnate 1
Quicken 10
Backmasking 1/0
CooldownReset (yeah I’m lazy) 5

So, what do you guys think? Would be grateful to have some review on seasoned Chronomancers :slight_smile:

#2

The problem with Quicken is that it’s attack speed buff is very ping-dependent. I only have Quicken 5 so far, but so far i, while playing with 50~80ms ping, can’t really say that i feel any big difference with my autoattacks with my Chrono when Quicken is active. However, it has a nice +25% crit rate attribute that physical classes will probably like.

About Backmasking: Keep it at level 1. I don’t have it yet, however i’ve heard using it costs 10k silver. Level 1 Backmasking however is a nice skill since it allows you to revive dead party members, as long as they haven’t been dead for longer than a few seconds, so it’s apparently a nice emerency resurrection skill incase your healer dies. I don’t think the slightly larger aoe radius warrants additional skill points, i’d rather use them elsewhere (in Quicken, Slow or Stop).

I have the same build (Wiz>pyro2>Linker1>Chrono2, going for Chrono 3) and i love it. Linker 1 is enough to do the basic Linker stuff and both Linker and Chrono have great synergy with Pyromancer.

#3

I might even go as far as saying do not put any points into reincarnate at all. It does not work on mobs that you need for questing (while the quest is active I presume), and it rarely ever works on bosses.

1 into backmasking is enough; investing SP for a larger AoE radius just isn’t practical for a skill you wouldn’t be spamming anyway.

Quicken is very good. You certainly notice the difference, but like stefan said, attack speed itself depends a lot upon your lag/ping so that may turn out frustrating when you don’t “feel” like quicken is doing anything to help you. Regardless, it helps out the members of your party a ton and the critical rate attribute makes it that much more of a necessary skill to have.

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#4

Interesting. How this build differs from cryochrono on a pve scenario? Which one is more relevant in which occasion? I still have doubts about cryo 3, it seems too much for too little. At first look, this cryo > linker 2 > chrono 3 build looks neater than cryochrono.

#5

I suppose Cryo-Crono is more crowd control oriented. As linker 2, your hangman’s knot lasts for 3 sec, and you’ll only be using it every 15 seconds (in theory, but you will usually be using it every time you use joint penalty, which is once every 22 secs or more). Being cryo 3 (as opossed to being cryo 1) will give you access to Frost Pillar (amazing AOE CC) and Snowball (Also a nice AOE CC, and goes through dispeller). You will also have the ice shield, so you’ll have better survivability than as linker 2.

As linker 2, though, you’ll probably be helping your party a lot more with damage. You’re not doing the damage yourself, but rather, your party members will be doing more damage (you can consider that your own damage for pratical purposes). I was personally thinking on trying a Cryo-Linker-Psyko-Chrono3 build for the PvP scenario (linker = group punishing / psyko = telekinesis disable), but i ended up deciding for the aforementioned build.

#6

@Zellrath @pieridaez thanks for the reply, guys. I was planning on putting quicken on 5. The attribute is amazing, yeah. I personally have high ping, so quicken wont be much of a help for me, but I was thinking it could be for my team mates. I think I somewhat know what to expect now. I didn’t really feel very confortable putting that point on reincarnate, but I thought it worked on World Bosses?

#7

Yeah, right now the only advantage that I see to stick through cryo 3, for pve purposes, is to get Frost Pillar, which seems to be easily swapped for JP+HK (and with a better coodown). The Snow Rolling looks situational and Ice Wall is just tempting if you think about pvp / gvg.

Cryo is something very confusing to me. Everyone says it excels on pve support, but it seems really a pvp oriented class. When I was planning a cryochrono build, I made up a couple of pvp combos instinctively. I will really think about this again. Damn theorycrafting.

#8

If you’re going Chrono 3, I highly recommend maxing quicken rather than leaving it at 5. It gets noticeably better and better with each level and you really don’t have better skills to put points into other than haste and slow (don’t have to max slow!)

@Zellrath Frost pillar is able to lock in and crowd control way more monsters than joint pentalty + hangman’s knot can ever dream of doing (and the cc lasts a lot longer than HK). This makes Cryo 3 the ideal PvE support for harder endgame content whereas linker would be better for casual endgame. Even though JP+HK has a shorter cd, a lot of the endgame harder content depends on the burst dmg from classes with high cd skills, which benefit more from one long-lasting CC in frost pillar than multiple short-duration CC in JP+HK.

Snow Rolling is only situational in the sense that it doesn’t work on many bosses. With that being said, being able to keep 10+ monsters in one place and prevent them from attacking for 8+ seconds is enough to make cryo C3 appealing for not just frost pillar, but for snow rolling as well. Using Chronomancer’s Pass, you’ll eventually find out that Snow Rolling and Frost Pillar can be used almost back to back in order to immobilize monsters for very long periods of time.

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#9

Quicken DOES NOT increase wizard auto-attack speed. It will increase swordman, cleric, and archer attack speed.

Quicken is significant in parties that have auto-attacking teammates like Chaplains, “machine-gun archers”, auto-attacking DPS swordies, etc. How significant? at L15 quicken, I’d say it at least doubles your DPS and im being conservative here. How desired are you? If you are any of the previous mentioned classes, they will love you.

People here saying how quicken is affected by ping and you have low ping…to that I say, who the ■■■■ cares about your DPS. Chrono = Support. As stated above, your wizard auto-attacks are NOT affected by Quicken. If you use your sub-weapon (dagger) you can see how quicken affects your attack speed, but lets be real. In PVP, you will be using a shield. In PVE, you can’t fully utilize Quicken. Your job in PVP is to CC, be annoying as ■■■■ to the enemy, do some add-on damage, and set up kills for your teammates. Let the damage dealers on your team utilize Quicken.

one PVP scenario: You use Quicken right out the gate (quicken also has 100% uptime). You have one DPS swordmans and yourself. Swordman has L15 restrain (+40% stun chance). You catch someone in Stop, Swordman stands next to stopped enemy, uses pain barrier/DoV and gets ready auto-attack enemy. Swordman can now swing almost 2.5 attacks per sec with 40%stun chance to stun lock opponent = GG. If sword went barb2 or higher, all stun skills are around 24s CD or under. You have Pass (25 sec reduction) = Swordman rotation 2x = stunned enemy should just go make some tea. Remember while enemy is stunned you can make full use of your flame ground and firepillar (any melee tries to hit ally,will get hurt by both)

Backmasking is useful for revive

Reincarnate is useful in PVE, My brother gets average 1-2 boss reincarnates every 3 Siau runs. Just yesterday we got 2 boss revives in one run (Golem + Poata)

Source: Brother is full support chrono + I have DPS swordie and ele3 (I have low ping, ele3 auto-attack does not increase with quicken) + friend has chaplain and other squad member has machine gun archer.

Extra: You can use your STOP to remove the barrier in Siau mission, wait till its about 55-65% HP and use STOP, then u can hop over it and start killing the Golem. Also, reincarnate has a SMALL HITBOX, you literally have to hug the boss before casting. We think its due to Boss AOE defense ratio that makes an already glitchy skill worst. We think it has around 20% success, but my brother says its around 30% but I think hes just being wishful

Extra: IMO, the best skill cyro have for PVP is Sub-Zero Shield. 60% freeze chance when you take ANY FORM OF DAMAGE. Freeze for about 5.5secs is OP.

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#10

This is just not true at all.

#11

It works on quest mobs just fine, you just have to stand close and face them.

#12

Do NOT make a PVP Cryo. Dispeller will block any and all freezing from Cryo skills. Casual PVPing is probably possible because not everyone is willing to spend their money on dispellers. For a more competitive scenario, though, you’ll be willing to kill yourself (unless they block dispellers somehow. Then you’re god.)

#13

I think Slow 15 (-30 movespeed) stunlocks people since the base movespeed is 30? This is just theorycrafting though.

#14

I REALLY recommend 1 point in ress.
Firstly, there is a CHANCE to work on bosses. It’s not like it will never work.
Also, it’s really worth it when it works on them. Don’t hear ppl saying it’s a ■■■■ skill.

Also, ppl just know nothing about chrono, god.

#15

Stop skill also stop players in pvp?

#16

In GvG there are a lot of skills that eat through dispellers very quickly. I can bring 200 dispellers to a fight and be out in 5 minutes ( and I have done so ). In extended GvG, you’re not going to be able to bring enough dispellers to effectively block all lvl 1 CC, as is commonly thought.

Dispellers are also disabled in Battlegrounds in kToS, so once we get Battlegrounds it should be the same deal.

Also, Cryo3’s snow rolling and frost tree’s pull effect are not resistable by dispellers, so you will still be effective. Plus, laying down a max level icewall is very effective for blocking off parts of the battlefield, or setting up for an icewall-shard barrage onto your foes.

@LadyFullbuster stop works the same way in PvP yes. I use it quite often to allow time for my nearby damage dealers to get to the person I’ve caught, or to set up further CC for a kill.

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#17

Quicken does work on wizard auto-attacks. At lvl10 it gives me like 30% aspd increase. Pretty nice skill. Much more usefull in PvE than Slow.

#18

Really appreciate your explanation. Thank you a lot! <3

#19

So, quicken affect on wizard aa right? Want to double confirm, becos someone said doesnt affect.

#20

Just check the vid, its slightly faster! Looks like lv5; my lv10 Quicken is absolutely noticeable.

Q1:
AA is just a filler for your and party rots. After you get Pass at C3, AA will be used less; so its use becomes also less. But there is still a use.

Q2:
Cant answer really, since ive no experience. But just from the numbers (Player health and SKill damage) i would say no. Even tho, you have the advantage of higher movement speed, i dont think its reliable, to kite something off with 1k hits. Also, the ping argument is so true…if you dont have a good one you can just forget it…