Some of the %50 modifiers were reduced to %30 but I dont remember lunge and cleave getting nerfed.
Cure was nerfed and now basically deals less damage than before.
Cure before balance patch:
100%per hit+bonus damage +INT-based bonus damage + 100% attribute damage;
Holy property bonus +100% damage on dark property
Cure after balance patch :
103% per hit +50% attribute damage
Holy property bonus +50% damage on dark property
So not good to compare against nerfed Cure xD;
Cure is now also a waste of points beyond level 5/6âŚ
About Dragoon: Dragoon is still viable.
What people donât understand is that Dethrone went basically from 100% damage +16k bonus damage pre-balance to 1238% damage postbalance.
Nobody has to be a math-genius to recognize that as long as the Dragoon has enough attack, the damage from the new % formula will always result in higher damage than the previous formula did. Donât forget that now all weapons have higher base attack values and higher upgrade boni,too (just the transcendence amount was nerfed/toned down a little).
Sure, Dragoon doesnât have the damageoutput of Doppelsoeldner, but he can boost his damageoutput with Serpentine(Dragoon) and Spear Lunge (Hoplite) to achieve good amounts, and he has fairly low CD times on most of his skills.
Dragon Tooth and Gae Bolg are basically as strong as Dethrone now,too(at decent levels).
I donât see a reason why Dragoon should be dead. Heâs a feasible Class with good damage and more consistent DPS instead of bursting down enemies and a decent choice for people who focus on one-handed polearms+subweapon/shield.
Dead, lol. Hes even playing with a sacmet (shittiest of 315 2h spears)
2 Likes
You know that sacment gives a huge atk boost against leather targets right?
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So whatâs the meta build for lancer? Since Im already invested in 2h SpearâŚ
S3 - Cata 3 - dragoon - lancer?
or
S3 - Cata3 - Corsair - lancer?
that video was made in ktest with the new patch changes?
Doesn´t lancer get the riding attribute too?
And if thats the case wouldn´t be a build with Hop/Barb/Hl better for a pve lancer?
For pvp im sure its still Sw3/Cata3/Cor/Lancer
It doesnât get multiplied by trans so itâs not that big of a deal.
Before patch the Attack against leather was above the spearâs base attack
After patch,the bonus now is less than the weapon attack and doesnât get multiplied by trans/refine.
Sacmet is the shittiest 315 2h spear tbh, regard horn pike is so damn good. Hg spear is pretty good too.
but you canât cure debuff lv1 with dragoon skill
PS: lol lol
ITT: People comparing Cure and Double Punch to a long range damage ability with a rootâŚlol.
Yâall are insane.
Thatâs what happens when people theorycraft in a vacuum and blend out everything else.
Dragoons are not viable at all.
What you canât understand is that damage itself prove nothing. Extreme exemple, you have a spell with 1000000% multiplier, but this spell have 2 meters range and require 20 seconds of casting without any damage taken. Despite the astronomical damage POTENTIAL, thatâs the most useless spell possible.
First exemple : Gae Bolg. Just ⌠try to use it on PvP, you will immediatly understand why even with 1500%, thatâs not worth to level that spell. Fixed range, extremly high cooldown, throw spear away, limited area of effect. You can of course take it level 1, but every other spell maxed will be more flexible and reliable than this one.
And thatâs one of the problem of the Dragoon : the lack of reliability.
The others problems are : the lack of burst, the lack of overall damage (what Dragoon have to offer outside of damage ? nothing), the impossibility to burst someone (this is the worst problematic point), the reliability of Cataphract (the main class to synergise with Dragoon and Lancer, and one of the worst offensive class in the game, you take Impaler 1, Trot 15, the rest is ⌠situational then useless later) and something that canât be contested by anyone : the comparison with Lancer.
As you say, Dragoon DPS is far, far away from Doppel. Just to remember :
Cyclone 15 deal 1285% damage per second, up to 6425% after 5,5 sec, with overheat and more attack damage overall (and with a hit every 0,2 sec, donât worry, you WILL stun the target with restrain).
Compare with Dragoon C2 : with Serpentine level 10 + serpentine debuff then a total rotation
1169 + 1629 (DT level 5), 1740 (DS) + 3714 (Dethrone x2) +1512 ( with GB if you are able to run out, they throw the spear and touch your opponent, good luck) => 9771%
What we forget here ? A lot of things :
- You have to charge some skills
- Gae Bulg is not really usable in any combo with serpentine debuff
- Your rotation is hard to perform and also need so much free time
- Your skill animations are sometimes huge
- We donât even say that Doppel have also overheat and possibly 33% final damage buff with DoV
- We donât even say that Doppel have other strong spells, sometimes with overheat too
- We also forget some classes who can have a strong synergy with doppel and increase his damage output astronomically (you can be rank 3, highlander 2 and have a better DPS than a R8 class focused on damage only, really ?)
- You will not be able to benefit of the Serpentine debuff for the entire duration in a realistic total combo
- Yes Serpentine can sometimes add a bleed (10% chance), i donât count that because it depends on luck and we already assume that you will be able to
Yes, Dragoon can be more mobile with his Cataphract but ⌠thatâs not possible to not take Cataphract (test it tomorrow and try to touch someone with your animations lol, you can use Dethrone unbuffed, thatâs all)
Doppel should have a better DPS than Dragoon. Thatâs THE dps class of the swordsman tree. But ⌠Dragoon too offer damage only and that class should be able to burst more, to have her own identity or advantage.
Even if the Doppel donât exist. Why take that ⌠When Lancer exist and can trade R7 for a precious Corsair circle ? The class deal more damage, have far higher utility, excellent animations, a very strong buff, higher damage, 2x less mana cost, more overheat. The only advantages of the Dragoon are slightly less cooldowns.
I will not argue for Cataphract : Swordsman C3 have better DPS :).
2 Likes
My thoughts exactly. Its just infuriating how people donât understand whenever I keep pointing out dragoon will become â â â â after patch. They say like dethrone is 16s cd, fullscreen attack, dethrone has root, gae bulg got buffed. Like LOL. I play SW3-cata3-goon2 and I already forsee the problem. Dragon tooth, soar and serpentine all 3 skills lock you in place for some pointless animation. (wait soar actually exist?!) Oh lets not forget the crazy amount of SP the skills require to castâŚ
Cataphract damage is non existentâŚ
Now im not even sure what class to reset him to. Pretty sure ill main my cleric but i still want a fun swordie class. Was considering corsair3 then i realize how expensive it is to gear him to⌠A 1h sword, a dagger and a pistol⌠Maybe i will do some lancer variation
Physical Inquisitor : 20000% burst AoE possible but i will not tell you how xD, with utility, strong anti-mage debuffs and some good magical damage too.
A single Conviction + 3xGod Smash with a blunt Weapon, even without the wheel, Maleficarum, etc âŚdeal more damage than a FULL Dragoon rotation + Earth Wave + Doom Spike. Enjoy.
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My cleric is gonna be a dex based monk3-inq actually⌠(resetting from pala3-inq) Ive seen video of a ktos monk achieving 16k x2 - 26k x2(crit) with DP at insane speed. Goon2 just doesnt compareâŚ
What are your thoughts on a good lancer build that would work post-patch? I donât want to waste any fund on my swordie too much and have him use the same 2h spear he has been using instead of regearing.
Why do people complain about Cataphract when this thread is about Dragoon? Youâre just not seeing the whole picture now that Cataphract isnât that good anymore. You can choose several other Classes below Rank 7 to build up your Dragoon like the guy in the video.
He wasnât riding anything and still destroyed the boss.
About Dragoon skill casting locking you in one place: You sure donât understand that youâre using a thrusting weapon,do you? That is how it is supposed to be. Clerics were locked in a place even when casting most of their magic, with some even featuring interruptable casttimeâŚ
The Class doesnât lose anything from this. You just need to use CC moves like Bash with knockdown attribute first and then you wonât take as many hitsâŚ
About PVP. If you want to get some PVP action, why not invest into Corsair? You can just hook your target and then advance onto him like no tomorrow. No need to run after him like a chicken. PVP is just a portion of the game and unless you got endgame gear already youâre still a victim of the whales because this game lacks good PVP balancing <_<
Just do me a favor and donât argue with PVP somewhere in your arguments, thatâs like arguing : âMy Class build isnât viable enough for ET runsâ. Endgame is metagame, point.
IMC didnât see the whole picture to eradicate meta so itâs still there together with Class discrimination.
You talk as if you have experience using dragoon, Do really have dragoon on your team? Can you screenshot them here?
All of top rank and overgeared Dragoons on Telsiai are going to ditch Dragoon 2. We all know how underwhelming and garbage it is and you dare to talk about us on your opinionated cleric mentality.
Fact check. All of these people saying Dragoon is fine are all maining Cleric or Magic classes because the balance clearly favors them so they dont wanna change this. It wasnt a balanced update, just favors them.
This Adeodatus even teaching us in PVP. LOL, how far did you climb in TBL my friend? Using your dragoon. Your ignorance is all over the place.
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No, I donât have a Dragoon, so what? Do you want to discriminate against peoples opinions because they donât have the thing they talk about at hand?
Did you personally play Dragoon on the Korean test server to say that Iâm wrong with everything and that Dragoon is garbage?
Youâre ignorant to my opinion on the change and just argue with top rank overgeared people.
If they are overgeared and just jumped meta because Dragoon was overpowered before, itâs clear that those metaplayers will just jump the next meta [i.e. Lancer or Doppelsoeldner] because they have higher return from their investment.
My last sentence explicitly stated that IMC didnât rebalance the meta out so this result is obvious. Are you ignorant to that fact or did you even read my post?
About PVP: I donât play PVP and I donât give a â â â â about it since itâs just the playground of whales and metas in Âą every game except maybe pre-renewal RO.
I just answered the guy who answered me by putting some random PVP argument into their question. PVP is not even remotely part of the game. It is not balanced. It is not fair. Point.
As long as the thread is not explicitly asking about PVP, I donât see a reason why someone would argument with PVP-gameplay unless heâs running out of argumentsâŚ
And please throw that Telsiai-mentality out of the window. Afaik thatâs a SEA-server, isnât it?
People from SEA surely tend to approach games from a whole different perspective than Europeans do [we are less competitive but more intellectually focused when playing games].
Competitive gamers just see the output numbers and drop the Classes dead they deem unworthy.
Please hold your horses a little, take a deep breath and repeat : "TOS is not a competitive game. Dragoon is not garbage."
Feeling better now?
Another thing: The changes do not favor Clerics or Wizards. In fact they are even putting them at a disadvantage. The new armor changes make it very hard to achieve a decent defence and dodge rate for Clerics and Wizards and make them more dependent on SP recovery because of the high SP cosumption of skills.
Archer and Swordsman have good damage on their Baseclasscircles while Wizard and Cleric do not [with the exception of Heal if you just use it for damage]. They also feature 5 overheat 10 secs CD skills for basic damage output without any setup. Meanwhile Cleric & Wizard need some setup for the damage with Cure/Heal and Energy Bolt/Magic Missile to achieve decent performance[ e.g. Sleep+ Energy Bolt, Blessing+Heal, Joint Penalty+Magic Missile].
This continues for Clerics all the way through to Circle 8 while Wizard has some issues with casting skills.
Meanwhile, Swordies and Archers can put some points into DEX and just spam more skills per rotation because they are mostly affected by ASPD -> more damageoutput per second. STR now grants accuracy and attack power and scales nicely with GungHo.
I donât see any merits except the reliance to either use a shield to block actively or to evade more actively as potions are not as potent anymore [i.e. you recieve more damage due to the lost evasion from DEX-meta and defence-scaling].
If you find any advantages, feel free to show them to me âwho proudly mains a Clericâ!
I think Adeodatus who dont use Dragoon and his friends will be the remaining Dragoons left in this server. You not only refused to accept the experience of someone who have Dragoon but also dictating us to still use it to feed your ego. If you think Cleric or Magics are underwhelming, how about make another thread for it? Instead of here.
It is common sense to know what you talking about the subject, thats why merit is much preferable, you have none because you only use Clerics. We all like theorycrafting but you yourself are using them as fact or rather dictating us even though we know it will not work specially on a more complicated things like swordsman PVP.
1 Like