Tree of Savior Forum

How IMC increases game difficulty is really worrying

General Discussion
#21

As much as I want to refrain myself from saying this, but have you ever think from the point of view of the developers? First, all of us demanded ToS to be free from P2W elements (hell, some of us even demanded to not have F2P Premium features like 2x EXP / Drops) and retain the F2P model, which is somewhat accepted by the developer for now, then the question comes, how else can the developers make money now? While I respect the developers for their ambitious intention to make a good MMORPG with their heart, the developers still need monetary supports to actually develop something and make a living out of it. They don’t get unlimited R&D funds out of thin air. If we keep bombarding and make nonsense demands which further increase their burden, don’t you think it is quite inhuman to do so, at least at this stage?

I’m not saying such features can never be implemented nor suggested, but talking about it and making it a reality is completely different things. For now, it is the right direction for the developer to pull out something like this since it is reusing the old features to enhance / adding it as a temporal resort to increase the “difficulty” and observe how well would the community react to it. The feature you’ve mentioned (although I’m still against it to be a “reflex to be invulnerable game” since it’ll bring a detrimental effect for players to party up) can wait until ToS has matured, made its successful position in the field of MMORPG and earned enough luxurious fund to do so.

2 Likes
#22

Not an excuse, if it makes the game a whole lot better, then they need to invest more on it.

#23

Pressing buttons to cast a skill which then looks to you like you are instantly casting it and avoiding a voidzone are two entirely different things.

I’ve played games like Secret world and Finaly Fantasy 14 on NA servers while I was in Europe and every single voidzone was a struggle. I was out of the danger on my screen, but that doesn’t matter if the game doesn’t realize that.

PVP would be a huge mess where only people who live basicly right next to the server can reach the top.

This kind of system also gets pretty boring pretty fast and has been done numerous times.

The best system would be if they’d take the system RO had and tried to improve upon it with innovative ideas

#24

I already gave Dragon Nest SEA with 200ms ping as an example yet you just ignored it. To be honest, lag compensation features should’ve been obvious already ever since. Split sec iframes should only be possible with 0ms ping yet they work even on 100-200ms pings. Lag compensation is there, just not noticed by all players.

The definition of boring is having enemies with cheap one shot skills and impossible to dodge attacks.

#25

I already gave Dragon Nest SEA with 200ms ping as an example yet you just ignored it.

I haven’t played Dragon Nest before, so I can’t make a judgement about how important latency is in that game, I can only speak from my own experience where I played numerous games of this kind in which the latency was a huge issue.

The definition of boring is having enemies with cheap one shot skills and impossible to dodge attacks.

Of course this is something that needs to be worked on by IMC, I’m not questioning that. But the general direction of giving enemies attacks that can potentially actually harm you if you play wrong is a good one.

Again, I can’t confirm your claims since I’m not playing the korean open beta so I’m just going to have to rely on your word on this.
But have you considered that maybe the way you are playing is not the most optimal way?
If it really was as bad as you say all the korean people wouldn’t be able to progress.

#26

IMC hired satan to design those mobs :joy:

1 Like
#27

There are indeed games like Onigiri which had very strict or almost no lag compensation feature to prevent the so-called “ghosting” on MMOs. Still, PSO2 SEA and DN SEA have extremely good lag compensation features that can be implemented on ToS so that reflex-based features can be added, ToS needs to improve and grow, not get more and more band-aid fixes.

The biggest wall was the part where there are tons of ranged mage mobs (almost same density as demon prison) and the only way to get through them as an Archer was to kill them all so you can proceed because aggro-ing them all would result to death. I did find a way to get through all the increased difficulty such as stopping for a while and heal yourself because some random Spion Archer suddenly decided to take out 90% of your HP or staying away from those archer pawndels so that they won’t cast caltrop on me where the Clerics are the ones dying instead as they need to get closer to the tank to heal them. Best way to increase difficulty right?

#28

Well, you got past them so I don’t see the problem

#29

This is the problem. Just because you can still find a way doesn’t mean it was delivered in the best way. It’s not challenging, doesn’t feel engaging, it’s all lame band-aid increase in difficulty.

P.S. And I thought my post was sarcastic enough.

1 Like
#30

It’s not challenging, doesn’t feel engaging, it’s all lame band-aid increase in difficulty.

Same applies to your suggestion.
They somehow need to find a way to make monsters challenging while also making the player feel rewarded after killing them.

I have more fun killing a bunch of hard to kill monsters which force me to sit down and rest and get a good chunk of experience for each enemy as reward rather than endlessly 1 shotting enemies that give me 0,1% exp each.

Killing firelock soldiers back in RO as a acolyte was one of the most funs I ever had with leveling in a MMO.
They could 2 shot me really easily but I was able to get immune to their attacks with a buff that had to be targeted on the ground. I would then use 50% of my MP to kill a single one of them and get 5% experience. I died a lot of times because their numbers would overpower me sometimes or because I misplaced my buff.

But it still felt very rewarding and fun because it actually forced me to pay attention during a task that is usually really mindless

1 Like
#31

Rewarded? You’re not rewarded for dealing with the enemies with annoying attacks/skills, they still have the same exp as other same level mobs but other mobs were alot easier to handle.

Oh, you see, you had a way to counter the enemies with ranged attacks with Pneuma on RO but on ToS? Nothing like that especially something comparable with 0s cooldown Pneuma.

RO did reward you for killing higher level mobs and they dont get ridiculous stat buffs as well if you’re gapped. But we’re talking about ToS here. ToS forces you to play only with mobs same level as you or around your level with minimal gap.

#32

I don’t think ‘band-aid’ is the word you’re looking for. What you probably mean is ‘overpowered’.

If #1’s (Multi-shot) damage from the multi-shot was reduced by 75%, but the heat-seeking and knock-down mechanics were still present, you wouldn’t find it an issue.

If #2’s (Caltrops) damage was reduced by 50% (400-500), you wouldn’t find it an issue (It’s an instance dungeon afterall, so the added knock-down mechanic and improved targeting AI should stay. Plus, Clerics are meant to be almost a requirement there).

If #3’s homing projectiles (Magic Missile) was reduced by 75% in only the early-level maps then there’s no room for complaint even if they do have 100% hit-rate, because you would only get punished for luring too many of them at once.

And #4… I can see that as annoying if it’s done by ranged mobs. But if it’s not a 100% hit-chance homing projectile like #3, then no change needed.

So the main issue here is just the damage output dealt. Mechanic wise, they did a good job.

#33

You are actually correct on all 4 points but there’s still a problem. How good is this added difficulty? Was it challenging? Was it engaging? No. They are all just guarantee, an assurance that you would still take damage no matter what, no matter how good is your build, no matter how skilled you are. It gives the point and click aura in the game which I hoped it didn’t because at first, as it looked like a hack and slash game but with a classic game feel like Legend of Mana. Overpowered attacks, aim-botting and homing attacks needs to go.

#34

Yeah, I’m glad we can agree on this.

But I’m optimistic.
I mean, they did the first right step now all they need to do is follow it up

#35

I still don’t like where they are heading to. Refer to my reply to Sixaxis above.

#36

Just look at these (The mobs) as pot holes on a road. You’ll run across them every now and then and they’re aggravating, but they don’t show up often enough to the point where you feel like you need to take a different road (Game). Unfortunately, the roads (Maps) you’re taking are also using the early 1900’s style pavement by the local government so it’s made entirely by bricks without being covered with Asphalt (-difficulty patches). This makes the travel through those areas uncomfortable, but you won’t be riding on them for long.

I’d agree to reducing the damage output in those certain cases, but not removing those mechanics from the game all-together. Yes they may be unavoidable, but unavoidable doesn’t equal bad. As long as it’s done in moderation, then it’s a good thing that allows you to break away from the monotone “Solo mode with pots” that practically all of Lvl 1 - 140 used to be.

EDIT: Did… did you mark your own post as the Thread Solution?

1 Like
#37

Wait, the game got slightly more challenging and that’s a bad thing?

Personally I find it much more enjoyable, although most of the game is still a joke regardless.

6 Likes
#38

The thread has no solution in the first place. I just chose it as solution so that people who has the same reaction as you and the others can read it beforehand.

Adding in point and click mechanics is bad. That thing is old and literally gives no challenge as it will just require you higher stat or higher gear while making actual player skills altogether useless.

#39

So, we need a party, hail supports :grinning:

2 Likes
#40

Adding in point and click mechanics is bad. That thing is old and literally gives no challenge as it will just require you higher stat or higher gear while making actual player skills altogether useless.

So are voidzonebased dodge mechanics.

That stuff has been around for years now and it was never fun.

Instead of going for one path or another IMC should just find a way of their own to make the game fun, maybe with a combination of both system, added in with some other interesting mechanics