Also, name on MMO that has full job reset? The only one I can think of are private servers of Ragnarok Online…
all of the money and drops the character has gathered the first time up.
it’s exactly the same as what we’ve all said before: you level up as an easy cookie-cutter build, throw a few bucks at it, and convert it to one of the complicated end-game builds. sure, in your system you might have to restart from the early levels if you do, but you’ve already had hundreds of levels to plan, and stash away gear as you go, and now you’ve got a +15 weapon for level 1,15,40,75, etc… plus a shield for lv1, an arde for 75, etc,etc,etc…
this is where the problem actually lies: people are more familiar with western style mmo’s… and simply assume that this mmo is the same as those mmo’s.
they are assuming that, like most western mmo’s, the objective is to get to the endgame content.
however… “endgame content”, the idea that you must have something to continue doing even after you’re done, is a very western notion. it actually baffled my mind when i first encountered the idea in WoW that everyone thought that leveling-up was just a form of ‘paying your dues’ and that the “real” game only started when you hit the level cap.
most “western” players have yet to realize that in ToS there simply is -no- magical post-game content at the end of it.
in ToS, like every other korean game i am aware of, the “endgame” is that you are done. congratulations, you made it! now, you can either grind for perfect gear, or you can start a new character.
the only reason to play is if you enjoy playing it. if you are not here because you -want- to invest a lot of time in leveling characters and experimenting/learning about them, then this isn’t a game that was made for you, because that is literally all that it’s about.
sure, eventually, somewhere down the road, some kind of end/meta/side-game content will be added. the battle arena will be turned on. guild wars will see some kind of expansion and development. maybe we’ll see something we don’t even expect, like a competitive “asteroids” videogame minigame, or some kind of full-contact knitting competition. who knows.
but the “core” game will remain what we already have now – a long-term leveling game.
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or maybe, instead of complaining about all the things you don’t have, you just learn to work with the things you do.
otherwise it just becomes a bunch of monster-builds.
i might be only c1 in every class, but i’m -effectively- C3 cleric, c3 Priest, c3 Krivis, c3 Diev, c3 Paladin, c3 chaplain, c3 monk, c2 Druid, c2 Oracle, c1 Plague Doctor, c1 Kabbalist… y’know, coz i just bought that attribute at every rank until i had all the “important” skills of all the other choices from that rank.
The problem is it’s really not going to go anywhere as you’ll have one side saying no to reset while another side says yes and nothing will get done unless an staff wants to take a look in to it and which ever side lose will cry and say they are leaving the game this is the last straw and then nothing will change. They may not even have the ability to offer a circle reset to players as well.
What I don’t understand why does people care so much about what others can do yet no one seems to mind you can get a potion to reset stats or skills yet circle reset is taboo. If you wanted to level quicker you can even get a token and exp tomes as well have friends to help you power level if your playing an support class.
The only logic I see why people dislike circle reset is because then people would just switch to the meta or switch to a healing class after they are max but… so what?
PVE : This might cause people to select the fastest to kill mobs however that wouldn’t much matter in a dungeon etc because without diversity they wont be any simpler as you need healers, damage, supports and even tanks for good runs to happen.
PVP : Sure, maybe people would choose the meta because it’s very op at the time however this would cause staff to notice well so many uses this build of this starter class maybe we should nerf it. I know what your thinking well they would just move on to the next op build however if you nerf builds they would get to the point where there would be a handful of builds which would promote more diversity and where more classes would be maybe in a more even playing field.
If you think the meta hurts the game well yeah it does because if you risk trying to have fun to experiment on your class in any shape at late game you’ll be screwed so the safe bet is go with someone build. Sure, You can make it to the late game however already no one cares to have a sword man in their party unless they have at least one circle into Peltasta. If the chance of someone meta gets nerfed to being useless I’m sure people will complain then quit as well because they are stuck with the choices they made when they selected the op meta.
I however will level all my characters no matter what to the max even if they are the worst skills and stats possible because it’s my own character or that I picked a skill which I didn’t like which others loved such as Aspersion. So I now have five skill points into which I wont even use anymore at a max priest class.
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I think class resets should be available until Rank 3, once for every character.
If you ■■■■ up at 500+ it’s your fault. If you cry about it, suck it up cause it’s YOUR FAULT. Reading about your build and planning ahead is 99% of the work in this game.
Reason why I agree with an early free reset at Rank 3ish is because we can’t punish newer players for not having information that should be in-game.
I knew you were Brazilian. The poor english and arguments not to mention the constant usage of the same insults in english were giving you away. Not a bad thing, but you might want to refrain from engaging serious discussions if you won’t do anything but to insult people in your argument or threaten them. Let’s not be sociopaths here alright?
Just to clarify my assumption to others, Brazil has a ratio of only about 15% of advanced+ level english speakers. Also if he takes this as an insult I’ll be 100% sure.
I would add: A reseted character can’t be alchemist, squire or pardoner.
It could be unfair for the people who leveled a class that level slower.
skill reset potion just changes what you can do within a set boundary. eg a priest will always have a very strong “support” functionality, just because that’s how almost all of its skills perform. paladins and krivis are also a supporter primarily, but “smite” and “zaibas” gives them a much more obvious aggressive edge. Dievdirbys and Bokor are both completely different types of classes. the Diev is offensive/support, using carved statues… and the Bokor is offensive using summoned monsters.
with a class reset option… the game and all its wonderful diversity would become boiled down to a simple 4-pattern leveling grind.
PvE:
each class would have 1 primary “this has been number-crunched to death as optimal” build, and -maybe- 1-2 other “acceptable” builds which mostly keep up to strength, or bring some high-value alternates to the mix (eg haste, summons, a pet that adds CC abilities, etc).
instead of all the possible class varieties we see now, where at every rank more options open up, it would just be a known selection of specifics. "oh, we’re in the rank 5 range? i guess everyone will be (this, this, that, or that).
of course you don’t have to play the meta builds. you could always play a solo-build instead, because if you aren’t the meta, you won’t be welcome in most parties.
PvP:
what? no. that’s for endgame dude, when we get our “real” builds.
apparently you don’t understand how people work…
nerfing a build means people stop playing that build and move on to the next most OP style of build.
with a class reset available, they just buy a reset and switch.
repeat until every build has been nerfed to death.
“this game sucks, they killed the pvp, i’m done with it.”
i don’t hate this idea, but it’s kinda pointless. resetting rank 1 is a reroll anyway. rank one is half an hour farming hanamings for the achievement, and then running for the Mines for your job advancement quest. there’s no progress there worth saving that isn’t better (and more cheaply) handled via a re-roll.
resetting rank 2 is almost as pointless. it’s vaguely possible that you found an actually rare drop at this point, but if you know so little that you have messed up your choice when there are only 3 choices, it isn’t that likely that you understand how rare the drop you found is.
resetting rank 3 is still somewhat pointless. sure the ~30 levels needed from r2 to r3 are a lot more challenging than the 15 levels to reach r2… but compared to what comes after, it’s all quite trivial. r3 is only a few hours of game-play lost, and not even that much if you’re the xp-card-burning type. if you’re so delicate that you can’t accept the loss of a few hours because you didn’t bother to “read the manual” (eg, research the game a bit online), then this is really not the game for you.
Oh dear, it’s another ‘‘we want resets’’ thread. And completely unbiased, just like the rest of them.
Dude, by being a token user you can literally shave hundreds if not thousands of hours off of attribute learning, and couple that with exponentially higher earning potential to spend on those attributes due to less market/trade restrictions…and you’re calling this system he suggested P2W?
The delusions in the anti-reset crowd never cease to amaze me.
This still isn’t p2w to a point that hasn’t already been reached. When TP becomes purchasable I could just as easily buy tokens, sell them for silver, and buy powerful upgraded gear for my level. Gear has a restricted minimum level so I can only become so powerful… the speed at which I could level a class would cap out to however IMC balanced it to be. If I did level an easier class I still would’ve had to invest extra time farming to prepare for reset anyway so would this method really be that much faster?
Would having a reset system in place prevent people from enjoying researching/building their characters? I actually think it’d encourage more experimentation. There are those that are just going to do cookie cutter builds anyways because they don’t want to risk making a bad build and restarting; available reset options might actually prevent less cookie cutter builds. I suppose neither of us can say what the outcome would be for certain.
So when I’m done leveling 4 characters and I’m perfectly happy with their builds and equipment I should buy another character slot and level more? Again, I never said aspects of the game other than end game weren’t worth experiencing. I’m having a lot of fun leveling right now and spent hours researching builds for all my characters. I guess when I max them all out I just won’t be apart of the “core” game anymore.
I never meant to be biased, in fact the reason I am trying to propose possible solutions to appease both crowds is because I can understand some of each sides concerns. Obviously both sides complain with little justification sometimes. In fact I dislike when someone demands a reset and doesn’t specify the conditions of the reset or how the reset should be designed for game balance. So forgive me for misleading you by not being explicit enough. Since you’re here would you like to join the discussion or you just nitpicking at little phrases?
I’m with you here.
Because like you said, people will just pick the class that easy solo level then just reset at high level.
The con of this that we wil get more unbalanced parties in dungeons and missions even for grinding parties.
Edit: I also totaly forgot world bosses and pvp… allowing class reset will push people to do the OP class of the moment and that’s not a good thing, we will lack diversity in the game.
Yeah, don’t understimate players even the casuals will feel forced to follow the meta because it will be the trend and the only way to stay “revelant” to the game.
One pros with having reset is, less build question threads 
everyone will be theory crafting their build, making it awsome… if not, just re-roll and wont even have to spend 1month to get back to where u were.
It all works both ways like I said before at the start of the post If their high level build has been nerfed to death. They will also say “this game sucks, they killed the pvp, i’m done with it.”
While yes it’s true it does limit people from picking what ever they do want the people who pick metas are always going to pick metas and the people who don’t will always not.
It’s already pretty much came down to number-crunched optimal builds you can notice that very simply when doing dungeon runs or missions only a few rare cases where I couldn’t guess what they was going for.
I’ve got no clue what your trying to comment here.
Just no reset, we have to realize what this diversity of class advancement mean for us. It has pro and con for this system.
But I agree 1 thing, they should at least release information for Rank 7 Circle2 and Circle3 plan ahead (and circle3 for tank 6), this allow peoples to plan ahead whether to take current rank 7. They not need to be detail about Rank 8, but it would be good at least we know what they do
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Not sure if you understood all the details but I did specify that the reset could also have to make you re-level didn’t I? Unless those stats were the ones you wanted end game you wouldn’t be leveling in those stats. If you have to level up the class ranks as you want them to be your still going to see diversity. Again the reset system I laid out doesn’t just let you reset and reallocate your skills, you literally have to level as that class. Whether you have better gear or not from leveling another class you still had to invest time or money getting to that point. Like I said before people could effectively level just as easy by buying/selling tokens and buying upgraded gear for their level…
this is a very big maybe, here. it depends entirely on how the system would work: -exactly- what you would lose when you use it.
or delete one. or move on to another game. or go outside, and make sure the rest of the world is still there.
most people probably aren’t going to stick to the game long enough to level 2 characters to max and finish all their gear.
But, if we allow one day class reset then it should be one time only, to prevent abuse and must be expensive and not tradable between players.
Oh no, not another one of these threads…
Yes it would. Any form of reset is detrimental as the core of the game isn’t like other games which are pretty much end game focused. The core of the game wants the player to enjoy the levelling journey to the high levels, which is why there is a tiered hierarchy of class trees.
One aspect the ‘pro-reset players’ fail to address if a reset is allowed, there wun be as much diversity in class builds from level 1 - 200+. Everyone wants to level up fast and choose the most efficient to level builds while saving their ‘reset’ when they hit class 7.
How would it feel like to the developers when all the guides here write “[Build] End game full support X”
Level 1 - 227: Level as efficient leveling build Y, once hit 227, reset to end game full support X.
Really? Might as well put market the game as “Game with 4 classes only, wide range of skills available to choose after class 7”.
Speaking of experimentation. If a group of players with different bulids reached Earth Tower, tried it and and failed at floor 7. How likely are they going to continue fighting on with their current builds if a reset if available and they know there are more efficient builds clearing up to floor 15?
Does a reset really encourage more experimentation (when you can’t reset and just have to adapt with your current build and make it work) or encourage more meta gaming (when your build can’t work just change to a tried and tested build so you can progress)? Do think hard about this :3
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did you read the post?