Tree of Savior Forum

Has anyone compared running shot vs feint+barrage combo?

Class and Rank Archer
#1

Hi everyone this is copy pasted from my Reddit post with editing to include corrections from previous responses.

"I’m thinking if I should reroll my ranger and rogue combo class into a qs3. Currently my build is archer2-ranger1-scout1-rogue1-sr1 soon to be sr2 and 3.

Right now after looking at videos with running shot lvl7. I’m assuming with running shot on I will get 2 shots per second. With a grand cross I’m seeing critical hit numbers fly at about 6k. So assuming 100% crit rate and didel grand cross which is the best possible scenario, I should be expecting around 8-9k per hit totalling to 20k dps or 400k Damage per 20 seconds

As for feint and barrage their CD is about 20 seconds. I have leveled my barrage attribute to 70 and have been critting about 5-6k. With feint this becomes 10 hits which is about 55k damage. Barrage can be used 3 times before going on CD therefore for every 20 seconds, I can do about 150k damage. Even in the best case scenario for barrage, I’m expecting only about 7k damage with lvl 100 attribute on barrage which isn’t much when compared to the dps of running shot.

Now keeping in mind that running shot takes about 20 second to deal it’s full course of damage. This is a pretty Long time indeed where you could be using SR skills to do more damage. if it’s possible, running shot can be used simultaneously alongside SR skills but still my point stands – running shot functions more of a filler skill than actually dealing damage when compared to feint and barrage which takes only about 2-3 seconds to fully deal its total damage! In situations where running shot is more beneficial, I can see only maybe in bossing scenarios? Even then, feint and barrage combo can still be useful albeit more dangerous because of close range and dismounting and potentially cause death but quick damage offload means the downtime can be filled with SR3 skills.

I made this post initially siding towards QS3 but after doing the math, it seems like feint and barrage is more favourable in terms of dps BUT with a huge disadvantage of dismounting and close range. If IMC decides to implement a smarter companion AI or companions are buffed to take less damage I can feel that feint and barrage could be more popular.

However, As a future SR3, I wonder how these lower rank skills even matter in my skill rotation which brings to my original question; Should I reroll now to qs3 for a good balance between single target/bossing and aoe/earth tower, or keep with feint and barrage plus utility from crit rate skill and capture from rogue?

From the arguments presented above, I still have some difficulty deciding."

#2

split arrow from scout 3 and magic arrow from fletcher are stronger than both if you really want high dps.

#3

I don’t really understand the question.

Feint&barrage x 3 = Burst, animation-locked, dismounts.
Running shot = Sustained damage, mobile damage, long duration.

KToS is making adjustments for rogue, because they’d like more synergy for rogue->hakkapalle. Hakkapalle is a mounted class. Reiter is a mounted class too.

They have changed backstab to be usable on mount. Perhaps one day they will make feint usable on mount too, since ranger&rogue -> hakkapalle is common, at least ranger&rogue is common.

#4

I run both Running Shot and Feint + Barrage in my build. They complement each other, but don’t replace each other.

#5

The question is if QS3 is better for lowerr ranks than ranger+rogue. Seeing so many QS3 into SR I was really curious if running shot is really that good compared to feint and barrage.

Yes running shot is for sustained dps and feint+barrage is for burst but their total damage over 20 seconds is very close if SR skills are used to compensate feint and barrage downtime. As a result I think rogue and ranger although not very popular due to the dismount, can compete reasonably well with the QS3 meta at the price of dismounting and going close.

This is what I think from simple calculations, but of course the objective here is to know ftom someone who has run both these builds gives their opinion in terms of practicality.

#6

It depends only whether you want skill damage or auto attack + mobile damage, I wouldn’t trade my Running Shot for anything! I love QS3 because besides it’s utilities (scalter, pavise), they have a LOT of mobility, and that for me is essential for an archer. So, the only viable archer option to me was some build involving QS3.

But it’s really personal. The fact is that both are viable.

#7

QS3 running shot is strong from rank 4-5-6, and starts to fall off without Didel grand cross. Running shot has no %enhance attribute. It is still good single-target damage with sustained damage, and you will be mobile. QS3 reiter speed is great for farming fieldmobs which don’t spawn cluttered (honeymeli, woodluwa, siaulamb, etc.). QS3 running shot will 100% have some interference with reiter retreat shot & forward shot, and other skills. However, running shot & retreat shot have great matching cooldowns. Running shot full duration -> retreat shot 10s -> running shot up -> repeat.

Ranger&rogue will only be available at rank5. Rank 4 ranger without rogue will be weaker than qs3 running shot at rank4, however barrage is stronger when qs is still qs1/qs2. Shotgun Feint&barrage*3 burst is quicker damage than running shot. Barrage is more AoE. Barrage has a %enhance attribute. Currently you will need to dismount to use Feint.

Another feature of rogue&ranger is the ability to use feint&barrage with Bow, on flying enemies, and the almost guaranteed crit from behind burst.
QS3 may use bow with running shot.

If running shot duration is around 20 secs, they will get around 60 hits.
You will get 2x feint&barrage combo, one at the beginning and one at the end.

During your downtime the QS3 can’t use any skills except z-attack.
You will use retreat shot for 10s, and other skills for 10s.
Qs3 will use retreat shot after running shot ends, you will use your next feint&barrage. Retreat shot is on CD now, so you will have to fill with other skills.

A prolonged fight will probably favour the QS3 since they have a good skill cycle of 2 skills.

#8

I’d pick QS3 over ranger+rogue at lower ranks any day. I like the skills QS offers and have a use for all of them.

Pavise attracts enemies and blocks any kind of damage. (But more effective against arrows when they target you)
Scatter Caltrops does good damage and will also save your ass since it blocks most enemies, slows them down and also blocks or makes enemies target them with magic or ranged skills.
Stone Shot has a chance to stun, does 50% extra damage against plate and hits up to 2 targets.
Rapid Fire has a debuff attribute that reduces crit resist to 0, and has extended range compared to other skills.
Teardown destroys statues with one kick.
Running Shot is strong, efficient (long duration, low sp cost) and makes leveling, farming, kiting sooooo much easier. Your auto-attack turns from “meh” to something that’s actually a joy to use.

Downside though is that you’ll lack AoE.

#9

You’re forgetting that if they are going for Ranger C3, they get 2 more huge damage skills. Of course it’s mostly Aoe but spiral shother is powerful.
QS3 generally wins on single target DPS especially since all of them are running Cafri+Blessing+Sacra and +10 Grand Cross

#10

Heya Cycling between running shot and retreat shot is optimal I agree but In running shot, taking 20 seconds to unload its total damage is A bit too Long compared to feint and barrage which takes only about 3 seconds to unload its total damage. And in that next 17 seconds, the player can use SR skills for feint and barrage builds whereas for running shot, the SR player is required to stick to running shot for the full 20 seconds for its entire damage.

Therefore, at the end of 20 seconds, feint and barrage and SR skills MAY deal MORE damage than running shot alone. This is the part where I’m not sure, so if anyone has both builds, feel free to correct me.

#11

You could deal more damage if your % enhance attribute is high.

Running shot has none, it will have to rely on player buff/stat/gear/(didel) grand cross entirely for 20 seconds.

@zemoxie I believe the ranger3 skill damage is okay, however it will not be as great once you reach reiter. You’d need to UP the attributes a lot for spiral arrow. Bounce shot is used mainly to lure mobs with high HP.

#12

How running shot interact with new limacon?
This may have big impact for SR build.

#13

Yea definitely. Attributes are very important *in the sense that it is added damage compared to running shot which has none. As mentioned in the opening post, I have lvl70 attributes in barrage and I’m doing about 5-6k critical hits. So at lv100 I’m expecting about maybe 7k damage? Attributes scale linearly if I’m not wrong, so 30 level attribute difference won’t matter too much I suppose.

The point Im trying to make is this; consider running shot only when mobility and convenience of not dismounting is far better than damage alone. Because as it stands, just by looking at the numbers I can estimate that barrage and feint combo and SR skills will do more damage in that 20 second “channeling” time for running shot, adding to the fact that barrage is AoE and fits nicely onto the AoE specialty for SR (albeit very clumsy to use compared to running shot).

This may not matter as much as I’ve also mentioned when rank8 SR3 arrives alongside limacon buff I can imagine the awkward skill rotations with feint and barrage and up to a certain extent – running shot. but it’s sometimes good to know rogue and ranger can be competitive in terms of damage to qs3 which is again, I must emphasize, the point of this post if it was not clear before. However, I’m still not too sure about this unless someone has done the practical side of this discussion and gives their input.

Do take note that these are the things Im not considering aside from damange numbers alone that can be vital to overall DPS:

  1. Positioning
  2. SR skill synergy (Sneak hit+werewolf card OP?)
  3. Buffs from other classes
  4. Synergy with other classes

Slightly off topic:

The current topic is feint+barrage vs running shot but I have been experimenting the Rogue skill “Sneak hit” with werewolf cards but I have to say the results seem quite promising although I did invest about 160 points in DEX so its hard to say. I will be resetting my stats with the stat reset potion next time they’re available and go almost full STR and report my findings. In theory this should give more damage output than STR and DEX combinations.

Edit: * corrected self contradicting statement.

#14

For damages, Running Shot is superior. So if you are building a Rogue for PvE QS3 is really good. If you are building a Rogue for PvP Ranger beats QS3 by far with Steady Aim, you will not make your Barrage combo unless your target is unable to react. But Running Shot needs the +2 lvl bonus to be really strong, lvl 5 is not enough. And if you really wanna do an Archer for PvE which have 3 ranks in QS, why not doing another class than Rogue and SR.

#15

false,
QS got arrow missile defense, and a spammable 0 CD stun
QS is MUCH better in pvp than ranger.
A lot better than a rogue too

#16

I have tested a Pure STR QS3 rogue, and it is very easy to hit bosses consistently from behind. Running shot gives enough mobility to stay on their backs for sneak hit procs, I was able to compete with fletchers with magic arrow attribute below 50% enhance, and could beat fletchers vs mobile bosses (magic arrow is bad vs mobile bosses). However my fps might differ from yours. Running shot vs crowded bosses is very latency dependent.

If werewolf card grants you the effect from any side, a pure STR build + werewolf card should have nice damage output, for any build. I can’t get enough werewolf cards to lvl 10 to test.

#17

No one use shields in PvP for Archers due to the low rate chance to block, it’s same for QS. But you can try to see if it’s really helpful against Wizards and Clerics.

The stun has not 100% chance to work, and it has been nerfed. The time you get to stun one guy you are already dead because, oh yeh PvP is not about 1v1.

QS is much better in PvP than ranger, yes, can you do PvP in TBL at rank 4 and below ? Sigh. So Ranger give you massive damages combined with Scout and Rogue, you can almost OS squishy people. Yeh, QS much better in PvP, standing here while spamming Stone Shot until you stunned your enemy. And here the Rogue who was smart enough to hide himself OS the QS in the back, byebye.

QS is a good class for PvP but clearly not better than Rogue, if you know how to build.

Oh wait, why am I trying to prove my point with your poor argumentation. Maybe a day I’ll play the game you guys are playing where QS are able to stun people in PvP without dying in half a second.

1 Like
#18

I agree that with a scout, an archer would be better for pvp.
But saying no archer uses shield in pvp is wrong. Most of the top ranking archers (rare) in tbl use shield esp if you are a qs with the shield mastery.

Really, for tbl is all about how you play your character. Even if you have scout you will not dominate pvp. And yeah stun is not 100 prcnt but from my experience it is very rare for me not to stun my opponent unless they have shield or ausrine or whatever.

If you taking scout, you must have 1 shot kill like canoneer or musket or dot like wugu or fletch or else you are dead. If you only rely on ranger skills you will be dead. Lol, i hvnt been killed by any barrage hit in tbl.

#19

You are right, few people are using it. But it doesn’t save you againt the 4 other people, unless you are fighting against 5 Archers xD.

The day this game will be balanced in PvP we will focus on top ranked people :slight_smile:.

It is also rare enemies are nude and have nothing to counter your stun.

#20

lol my point is you pointing out Ranger/Rouge class is superior to QS in pvp. lol it doesnt offer much in pvp unless you have scout. and once that cloak in on cd you are done and you need to do melee mode just to hit that barrage. atleast for qs you have running shot, caltrops and stun.

My case of pointing out top ranking archers is the use of shield.

What do you mean by NUDE lol? It’s not rare to stun in pvp. I guess you haven’t played QS much. Even if you have shield i can spam stun you and i tell you you will get stunned except for PD and the ones with ausrine.