Tree of Savior Forum

Gung Ho VS Concentrate Calculator

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

EDIT :

Changed thread to just link to the spreadsheet I made during it.
Copy the sheet to a personal sheet and edit at will to decide for yourself if Concentrate or Gung Ho is the skill for you

Granted both will always be better but some people really prefer PB/Restrain.

Anyhow, here you all go

Original Thread :

Since Gung Ho vs Concentrate is brought up a lot, imma throw you all some calculations.

Doing some very rough math because I don’t know how much attack is common for nearly fully geared people, and I’m only using the stat points gained from levels (dunno the actual max including quest or zemyna points).

  • Base Full STR attack : 1024
  • Base Full DEX attack : 199
  • Monster Defense : 1500 (Actually x0.878 if we take this as the tos.neet/tosbase value)
  • Weapon Attack : 5000
  • Lv10 Hexen Dropper w/ 100 Attribute : 352.5% x 7

Full STR (337) :

  • Lv15 Gung Ho : 328.95211326129 Attack
  • Base Damage with Gung Ho active : 4505.22676947323
  • (log10(((6024 + 328.95211326129) / ((1500 x 0.878)+1))^0.9 + 1)) x (6024+328.95211326129)
  • Hexen Dropper Damage : 15880.9243623931 x 7
  • Total Damage : 111166.470536752
  • Lv15 Concentrate : 819.75 additional damage
  • Base Damage (ignoring Concentrate) : 4171.69338732433
  • (log10((6024 / ((1500 x 0.878)+1))^0.9 + 1)) x 6024
  • Hexen Dropper Damage : (14705.2191903183 + 819.75) x 7
  • Total Damage : 108674.7843322281

Full DEX (335)

  • Lv15 Concentrate : 1562.25 additional damage
  • Base Damage (ignoring Concentrate) : 3365.121841646
  • (log10((5199 / ((1500 x 0.878)+1))^0.9 + 1)) x 5199
  • Hexen Dropper Damage : (11862.0545156680 + 1562.25) x 7
  • Total Damage : 93970.131609676

Alright so for a 7 hit skill, even still Concentrate simply cannot catch up with Gung Ho…and it makes perfect sense. Consider that, if base skill damage (full dex) + concentrate < base skill damage (full str), it doesn’t matter how many hits a skill has, it will never do more damage. It could do 100 hits, it really doesn’t matter.

HOWEVER!

Certain skills have additional damage lines that aren’t affected by that skill’s skillFactor% and only your attack. Like Cartar Stroke and Pistol Shot.

Using Cartar Stroke Lv15 w/ 100 Attribute and Collision Attribute on a boss you can’t knock back :

  • Cartar Stroke hits : 4
  • Collision hits : 4

Full STR

  • Skill Damage : 12637.1610883724 x 4
  • Collision Damage (50% of Attack, no skill factor) : 2252.6133847366 x 4
  • Total Damage : 59559.097892436

Full DEX

  • Skill Damage : (10933.6944920049 + 1562.25) x 4
  • Collision Damage (50% of Attack, no skill factor) : (1948.9651500900 + 1562.25) x 4
  • Total Damage : 64028.6385683796

Well well well. More damage this time.

What to take away from all this is that really, Gung Ho w/ Full STR is better than Concentrate w/ Full DEX even if you rely on multihits. If you go Full DEX for other reasons (crits, which I dont advise, or attack speed) then of course, you have no choice but to use Concentrate.

The only times Concentrate is worth using on a Full STR swordie is if the class you’re playing relies on such “additional damage line” skills. But then the problem is, there’s only like 2 such skills, and Pistol Shot’s ricochet has an attack modifier almost equal to its actual skillFactor so Concentrate doesn’t win on that either : only Cartar Stroke benefits from it more than from Gung Ho. And only on immovable targets.

Granted you could really just use both. Gung Ho doesn’t use up a buff limit slot anyway (Concentrate does tho).

Maybe not rely on a level 15 PB as much if you truly want to do more damage, eh? :wink:

4 Likes
#2

Thanks for the numbers!

Wait what? How? Is it a Lv2 buff now? I still see it in the primary bar though…

#3

It’s in the primary bar yes, but like Cassis Crista and Double Weapon Assault, it’s excluded from the buff limit
It’s the little “limited” tag on tos.neet :

Gung Ho https://tos.neet.tv/skills/10003
Cassis Crista https://tos.neet.tv/skills/11301

Zalciai : https://tos.neet.tv/skills/40102
Concentrate : https://tos.neet.tv/skills/10004

It’s worth testing if you want. I have noticed gung ho seemingly remaining active forever no matter how many buffs I get, but dungeons are pretty hectic so I may simply not notice it going poof.

2 Likes
#4

Undoubtedly Gung-ho works better as the game and investment to Str goes on.

Tbqh I’m on the Conce side since there’s no downside in it, not really fond of lowering my natural def for more attack.

I know its more or less like a noob trap but, right now Conce is like Bless, the solid 1k+ def-bypass additional damage really feels too good.
A rough 300PA from a 300Str lvl15 gungho will felt more with higher %scaling that has less hit counts tho.

#5

Concentrate is also good for AA.

Generally speaking, Critical Damage is higher with high DEX than with high STR. And that also applies to skills.

That is because a high DEX will be using any weapon a high STR would use, so the only difference is what your character offers as base damage, and DEX wins here:

300 STR + 50 DEX = base 1652 critical damage
50 STR + 300 DEX = base 1965 critical damage

(1 DEX = 4 critical attack + 10 critical attack for each 10 DEX)

The only situation where DEX may not win is if your combo relies on various high %skill factor skills like Fencer with a Venier/Lolo/Solmiki (+2 to all skill levels), which I have not calculated yet if the 1.5% of critical damage wins.

But of course, if you’re not criting and/or are using skills that scale with STR, why the heck would you pick high DEX.

In the end, both Gung Ho and Concentrate are useful, even for High STR. You can take 15/15/15 with Pain Barrier, so, why not take all, ditch out that Restrain and Double Slash :D.

#6

I’m still new to the game, my character didn’t even reach lvl 200, but I’d like to leave some thoghts.

Accordding to your numbers, if the damage skill have a modifier of ~249% or more per hit, Gung Ho is better then Concentrate, is that right? I mean, you used Hexen Dropper Damage, but how much this calculus would give for Hoplite’s Spear Throw while I cannot get full attribute? If my rough math is right, the difference would be around 792 damage for Concentrate.

Yesterday, I’ve talked with a lvl 330 character to get some tips. He said he uses 7 ellaganos cards (which give him 70 dex) and that you will need some DEX for block penatration. Then, considering just 7 ellaganos, concentrate would give 1112.25 attack. So, a skill would need ~339% or more per hit to Gung Ho be better than Concentrate.

Wouldn’t it be better to put points on both Gung Ho and Concentrate?

I plan on having Gung Ho 5 and Concentrate 10.

(Sorry for spelling errors, english is not my native language)

#7

Analyze your skill rotation, does it have more multiple low% hit skills? Then Concentrate is the answer.

But, if it has more one hit burst skill or even some multi hit with high%, Gung Ho will win.

But frankly, if the focus is DPS, getting both is the answer.

#8

Hi sir, im using cors3dopp1 build right now and my skills are mostly:

Main:
Cyclone
Pistol shot

Fillers:
Double slash
Hexxen
Dustdevil

I’m not really keen on checking %hits… What would you advise that i consider? higher Concentrate or higher gung ho level?

#9

Give me a second here, working on something I think a lot of people will appreciate…

Sneak peek :

1 Like
#10

Assuming that your build is Swordsman3>?>Corsair3>Doppel with maxed skills, no attribute enhance.

Cyclone = 180%/0.2s
Pistol Shot = 269%/hit

Double Slash = 304%/hit
Hexen Dropper = 235%/hit
Dust Devil = 342%/hit

If you want the number with Attribute Enhance, just add half of the % value.

I would pick Concentrate.

#11

Or restrain.

I find restrain to be pretty useless in both TBL and PvE

#12

Alright done.

Just copy the spreadsheet below to a personal version so you can edit it, I’m not about to give the world editing rights to one spreadsheet :wink:

You can just fill in your numbers and see for yourself what works best:

#13

Thanks… will you advise further? full str? full dex or hybrid or do you consider any sweetspot for dex and str?

#14

You could stun lock a group of enemies with Attaque Composee till death with Restrain. I did Inner District 9 with it.

But I would also ditch restrain out if I had the option.

You need a minimum of Accuracy and Block Penetration for PVE, so you have to see how is your gear choice first. If they give you plenty of both (around 190 accuracy and block pen), then you can invest highly on one stat.

Now, if you are picking Concentrate, or at least focusing on it, then DEX is the only option.

1 Like
#15

You could, but eventually you get to a point where something like this doesn’t make a difference. I guess restrain becomes less and less useful as you approach high end equips. Until then it can be pretty nice, but also stun locking a group of enemies with attaque composee would be heavily limited by AoE attack ratio too right? Since the stun lasts less than a second I feel like it would be pretty hard to keep an entire group (implying like 6+?) medium sized enemies under complete stunlock with only one skill that has 5 overheats. Difficulty doesn’t imply impossibility though. What I’m mostly getting at either way is that stunlocking a group of enemies doesn’t mean much if you can 1-2 hit them instead

On the other side, I’ve cleared solmiki 40F and can say with 100% certainty that restrain would not have helped my group or myself at all (in fact it may have hurt us tbh) and TBL is whatever because stuns don’t matter if it’s just a battle of who can one hit who first. If restrain can proc through blocks and misses, that’s another story I guess for TBL, but this thought just occurred to me as I’m typing this so I have no idea

#16

Some monsters have some stun immunity, and ET is pretty much like that, so yeah, you’re right on that.

I did that before the patch, btw, so I was talking about 0 CD. Back then Inner District was harder if you didn’t stun anything. AOE was kinda solved by me with Phada and Catacombs Rapier, which was my combo for mobbing.

But yeah, I agree with you, today restrain is kinda whatever. I myself am not picking it anymore.

TBL I would say it depends, because Restrain procs even when they block you, which is useful. But TBL is what like you said, it is a fight between who can hit hard first.

#17

Ahhhh okay, that makes a lot of sense. I’ve actually never used restrain until the combat update but yeah it’s interesting how it procs through blocks

#18

it’s most useful effect is that it procs through safety zone, but yeah it seems most people will oneshot you before you could stunlock someone and even then it only took a few seconds for a stunlock before you end up killing them when you are high end too

#19

So I need minimum of 190 for either accuracy or block pen right? That equates to a starting dex or str of 155… Any particular reason for the 190 number?

#20

The highest evasion rate you can find with Bosses and Elites is 190. Having an equal number makes the Evasion Chance = 0% (evasion chance = (max(0, evasion – accuracy)) ^ 0.65 from dev blog).

The block number is actually kinda not guaranteed because the database does not inform its block rate, however, we can assume that by CON value how much would the minimum block be, at least. The highest CON from boss/elite is 163. A Level 330 character with 163 CON has a base of 194 block. Having an equal number also makes block chance = 0% (block chance = (max(0, block – block penetration)) ^ 0.7 from dev blog)

Of course, I’m considering the worst case scenario. Most common mobs don’t have that much block/evasion.