Yes you can, Dragoon has the attributes to use both 1H and 2H spears, so it is not absolutely necessary to pick Hoplite or Cataphract before it.
It does help to have Spear Lunge on your build to increase the damage from your Dragoon skills, but you could do without it and use a different build that focuses around other benefits while still using spears.
How is the end game pvp meta? Is it 1 hit kills with some CC, or utility could be important because you need to debuff the enemy first?
Edit 1: Would it be easy for swordsman to dash and land a debuff in pvp?
Edit 2: Does Corsair’s Iron Hook still bind the enemy while the user use another skill in melee range? (Using another skill without moving).
Thanks in advance
I think doing something more experimental will be more interesting since, like you said, if i want cataphract c3 on PVP i would simply log in on a Dragoon with catac3 build. The main objective is giving a unique fell to The class, even of it only shine on some specific situations.
What’s the big use of Corsair in those experimental builds? The CC Hook, Jolly Roger?
Some people say Finestra is not good on pvp, because of the loss of evasion, is that true?
Hi, can I ask your opinion about going for sword > pelt > hop2 > cata3 instead of going for sword > pelt> hop > cata3> drag. I think finestra is a really good skill and the additional damage from a point in spear lunge is nice to have.
I’d like to ask you guys who are experts playing as Swordies. Is it true swordsmen don’t deal enough damage to get a cube fighting WORLD BOSSES?!!? People usually say Mages and Archers always get them for party members. LOL. Can’t believe!
@jeffbr92 According to info, cubes from world bosses are garnted to top 6 DPSers on them and their parties. Considering current (sad) state of swordsmans in term of their DPS, i guess its true.
Also, question about Swordsman C1. Is anything there from skills worth being maxed in attributes? I know gung-ho and concentration are completely unviable in lategame, thats why im asking if anything else is worth.
It is mostly about hard CC and capitalizing on them to deal damage.
For example, landing an Iron Hook, Impale a stun, a slow, etc; and then following it with a strong damage source like Cyclone, Hexen Dropper, Sept Etoiles, Stabbing, etc. Or overpowering through movement speed and Rush from Cataphract.
I wouldn’t say it is “easy” to dash in and land a soft/hard CC, but it is also not impossible.
The problem in PvP right now is that CC from other classes (Cryo, Kino, etc) are too potent and strong making it challenging to close the gap and reach them if you fall into these skills.
That is why Cataphract helps a lot in these situations as having that high movement speed from Trot allows you to have a bigger window to move out of the area where those skills will land and reducing the time it takes you to reach the opponent.
These issues are being currently addressed in kTOS with a direct nerf in PvP to these potent CC skills from those classes and something similar should come to our version and open up more strategies for Swordsmen to go into PvP.
And yeah, if you land Iron Hook, you can use any skills and keep the target binded as long as you don’t move or move the target through these skills.
Iron Hook is the only CC skills we have that goes through Bloodletting and it is pretty potent in group scenarios where your teammates can take advantage of it and burst down the targets that you trapped with it.
It also allows you to burst down someone down if you manage to land it on melee range so you can use your skills on them.
No, the Evasion reduction is negligible.
I don’t really have the experience using every class from those other trees, so I don’t think I could make one, sorry.
1H+Shield and 2H.
Use them whenever you feel each is better to use. If you feel the need to use a shield, pull it out, otherwise just use the 2H spear.
I don’t think it is worth giving up Dragoon in any case. If you really want both classes, then you could do something like:
I like how finestra works since I can save a bit of points in dex to put to str. However, I am not sure as to how much damage I will lose from not getting dragoon. Lvl 10 Pierce and Lvl 10 stabbing vs lvl 5 Serpentine and dragontooth. Is the difference really big? because I’m only considering dragoon because of its damage.
Cata c3 rush and lvl 15 trot is too hard to pass up. I think without rush i am limited to just pierce and strike damage. Also 100% up time for trot is really nice.
The main difference is that you will still have a pretty big gap on your rotation to deal damage, which you will have to cover with auto-attacks and at Rank 7 that isn’t very efficient.
The damage you deal is mostly defined by the skills that you use, rather than the stats that you have. Adding more multi-hit skills to your kit is always a better option than slightly increasing your damage on previous ones.
Sure, you could increase your damage per hit by a few hundred points on the best scenario by using those points from Finestra into STR instead and that could add a little bit of extra damage to your Stabbing, Rush, Earth Wave and Doom Spike.
Then look at multi-hit skills like Dragontooth and Serpentine which can easily deal between 25k~50k+ damage and Dragon Soar which deals between 15~20k+ damage and they can also be enhanced through their damage attribute and other modifiers.
When you compare both of them, no matter what, you will always be dealing less damage than a build with Dragoon on it.
Giving up a Rank 7 option for a little bit of extra stats from Finestra is never worth it.
That is why if you want to play Cataphract C3, then it is better to not get Hoplite C2 and instead go for Dragoon.
Thanks again for the help, sorry for asking so many things, it’s just that it’s to hard to just level a character to rank 7 to not use it much, so i wanna do something interesting with the classes on the build.
Among the 3 builds you said to me, all have hoplite, is it in the build just to help leveling, since there is nothing better for the build at rank 3? Or does it have some posterior utility in these builds?
On the case of the Rodelero build, it is because spear is a much better weapon choice than sword. Ideally you want to move from sword to rapier or spear on a shield build and in this case Hoplite is the only choice as Fencer is only available past Rank 6.
On the other build, it is because you can’t use 1H spears with Cataphract unless you get Hoplite before it (or Dragoon at Rank 7) and it is convenient because you can switch between 1H Spear+Shield and 2H Spear depending on what the situation demands for.
Finestra also gives you some extra AoE Ratio and Stabbing is a pretty nice skill.
I’m considering sword c3 - pelt c1 - corsair c1 or c2 - fencer c1 or c2 for some pvp and pve. Anyone can give me some insight if this build will work? And from what i heard dwa doesn’t work with rapiers, is that true? Appreciate any feedback .)
What is better for my build (3str:2 dex :1 con Swordsman>peltasta>hop>cata 2(going for 3 and, after it, dragoon) ) when i reach level 170: 2h spear Elements or a Geras Spear + Arde dagger? Or maybe something else…