Hence why I couldn’t stop laughing when he wrote that.
Circle 2 Monk is way less powerful than Circle 3, an there is no way he’s making up that difference with a strength based Plague Doctor.
It was a good joke though, an I hope he likes PvP. Because for PvE with another Plague Doctor his build is pretty much done for.
It’s not “way less powerful”.
Monk 3 only gets longer duration on One Inch punch and Energy Blast, some DPS increase from double punch and nearly useless Golden bell shield.
If it has nothing to improve their strong sides on Rank8, then it’s a really bad class choice comparing to PD.
PD can even spread one inch punch and bleeding to 15 mobs, lol.
You get Priest3 mainly for Stone Skin and better Revive/Mass Heal. Stone Skin is extremely important for PvP.
Though I’m personally using Cleric2PriestKrivis build, but start to feel like priest3 would be better, as it grants so much more utility with Revive, Stone Skin and Mass Heal. The only reason I avoided Priest3 is universality, I don’t want to be useless if I have another priest3 in party, and I was focusing on solo play with this character anyway. And at least all of my circles are useful in any party, so I don’t regret not going priest3.
Actually One Inch Punch & Energy Blast are about a 3rd as powerful on circle 2 compared 2 circle 3. Considering they’re your most damaging moves that’s my definition of way less powerful.
Some suggestions from someone that played Priest Monk on Ktos:
Skills:
Cleric - Cure 1 Desprotected Zone 4 (Why? Because it gives you a way to cure from death sentence and other annoying rank 1 debuffs)
Priest - Blessing 5 is enough, also Sacrament 1 is enough for utility (you just need it for the second line on your auto attacks), Resurrection 5, Revive 10 and Mass Heal 10
Monk - God Finger Flick 1, the damage sucks, you gonna pick for the attribute that increase strike damage. Inch Punch, Energy Blast and Double Punch always maxed.
Also i think P.D monk is better than monk c3. Golden Bell, Energy Blast lvl10 and Inch Punch lvl10 are a bad trade compared to cc immunity and pandemic (what i cant confirm , but seems like can spread inch punch on enemies). Also Energy Blast lvl10 have a huge cast time (but the damage is very high), Golden bell is almost useless in almost all situations and Inch Punch lvl5 already have enough damage and duration.
Not sure if One Inch Punch dot damage scales with level (for palm strike it’s only initial damage that scales), but yeah, you get like 50% extra damage to single target.
If energy blast gets 1 second duration per level, its total skill damage is indeed more than doubled, and it becomes extremely powerful.
But an alternative is 100% uptime mass CC immunity, 100% uptime healing factor and one inch punch and palm strike dots spread to 15 monsters/players. It completely covers monks lack of AoE damage and turns it provides incredible utility.
Before kToS PD nerfs I’d definitely pick it over Monk3, but right now I’ll still wait till rank8 to decide. If PD2 would be any good, I’d probably get it, otherwise I’d stick with monk3 and rank8 class, if it’d have any synergy.
The problem with monks is, that they don’t have any top level weapons. Sunkus is the best one even for level 280, since as you said, it improves 2 main skills and it can’t be beaten by simple stats. 2 extra seconds are extremely good, especially for monk2, but not as good for monk3, because it has already so long duration that mobs will rarely survive for that long.
And in GvG PD is still better, as nothing can beat CC immunity.
Bumping. Major update to the guide. A bit unrefined, will refine later and add a little FAQ to the VI. Dr Monk section. For now the major ideas are there.
Regarding comparsion of monk3 with Plague doctor, I need to add that Incinerate will only deal flat damage, not affected by your physical attack, while extra seconds of Energy blast and One-Inch Punch dot will scale with your physical attack. Let’s say, you will have around 1500 physical attack and 500 magic attack. If you apple Incinerate after bleeed and one-inch punch debuff + deprotected zone, it’d result in 11 seconds duration. So 17k additional damage.
In comparsion, One-Inch Punch will deal around 2.5k damage per tick(not sure about scaling, but it deals like 1400 with my 600 patk), so 12.5k damage from 5 extra seconds. I need to test if dot damage scales with level, it might be higher or lower. We can see that incinerate deals more damage. But we also have Energy blast with double duration. Extra 2.5 seconds is extra 5 hits. Level 5 energy blast is 10*(1500+1145)-5*(1500+720)=15350 damage. So it’s also lower than Incineration damage, but don’t forget that it has knockback, so it will also provide 5 seconds of CC.
Final part, is the reasons why PD is worth getting. In my opinion Incineration is nearly the weakest skill you can get.
1)Healing Factor. At level 5 it has nearly 100% uptime, and with Divine Might it’s 100%. It makes your tank basically immortal. If you have a linker2, it makes your team nearly immortal.
2)Bloodletting. At level 5 it as wel has nearly 100% uptime, and again, with Divine might it’s 100%. Sure it was nerfed in kToS, but only for arena. In GvG it still has full duration, so it’s permanent immunity to CC.
3)Pandemic. For me it’s probably the main reason to get monk. Because according to the description you can share any status effects to other enemies. So at level 4 it will share One-Inch punch dot and Palm strike bleed up to 11 enemies. It will effectively bring much more damage than Incinerate. The only question is range, if sharing range is quite low, then it might be more effective to just cast Incinerate, but if it’s wide enough, then it can cripple the entire pack of enemies.
Now imagine how terrifying it can be in GvG if enemy has lost a protection from status effects for a few moments. During 5 seconds of silence it will eat most of the enemy parties exp. At level 4 it will destroy 11 players making them unable to fight for a quite long period of time. It’s the main reason why I’m ready to drop Energy blast level 10 in PvP.
Finally, there is no good weapon for monk at 220+(like sunkus maul), that’s why focusing on monk too much is not a really good idea. So getting PD will help a lot. I need to carry out a research to measure if One-Inch punch dot depends on skill level, how patk affects HP and SP drain, and if there is INT scaling for Energy blast. If Energy blast scales with INT it might be much better to make a INT based monk build, if it doesn’t, then SPR based build might work the best. In this case monk will mainly be used for Energy blast knockback and dots + supporting, while main focus would be on PD and other classes skills. This way we can get an extreme carry protector, as it will guard your main DPS from enemy melee characters, knockbacking them with Palm Strike, and then using One-Inch+Pandemic combo on them for enemy team devastation. But it’s heavily dependable on Pandemic range.
Beak mask level 1 would help to protect yourself, but there is only one level 3 status effect and it’s impossible to apply if there are no level 1 or 2 status effects applied, so bloodletting is a better buff and should be maxed. For that reason I’d rather get Cleric2 over priest3, but you can just get another cleric in your party for Divine Might.
Overall I still don’t think that PD is that much better, becuse if you have another PD in your party, monk3 becomes extremely powerful. Even if you don’t, it still has more CC and damage on a group of mobs with level 10 energy blast. Also if you go monk3 I’d recommend using Sunkus Maul till the end of the game, as it will provide more damage than any other weapon. You can as well enhance it to 15+ to achieve high patk values.
In my build, that includes Cleric2, I’d drop Incinerate completely to max bloodletting, healing factor and discerning evil(up to level 3-4), and get 1 level in Beak Mask and maybe fumigate (though it’s unnecesary).
Would like to hear your feedback about monks skill interactions with PD skills, so I would be able to decide about my R7 class choice and compare both variants.
@Derael
So let me begin by saying that no matter what, good things come to those who wait. My one singular fear about Monk 2 PD1 is that Rank 8 releases and there’s something juicy that makes Monk 3 far more desirable. That’s my one and only issue with my build at the moment, is it future proof? But that’s a common fear for anyone. So if you have yet to pick your Rank 7 and share this fear and you’re willing to wait. Wait it out and see if there’s some god like Rank 8 class advancement choice that going PD1 @ R7 would make unwise.
I would not advocate a Int based Monk-PD because incinerate already has amazingly high base Atk. Even with just a +9 Suncus Maul (which doesn’t help m.atk to my knowledge, except the base +175) I have roughly 450 m.atk. I can’t imagine losing out on Con, Str, Dex or even Spr for some linear gains to incinerate. It’d also make you more dependent on the other m.atk abilities in a possible Monk-PD kit that just doesn’t flow well at all with Monk.
All that being said, to address your primary question. PD offense works extremely well with Monk skills. However as I stated in my guide I haven’t seen Pandemic work and so I can’t experiment with it properly to see the true theoretically potential. But for now I can destroy high hp mobs with ease.
The typical combo is
(Palm Strike) -> One-Inch Punch -> Hand Knife -> (Deprotect Zone) -> Incinerate
The bleeds and fire DoT do incredible damage on their own. Palm strike is in parenthesis because it’s not wise if mobs can be knocked back. Deprotect Zone as well because it’s only useful if the damage difference is necessary killing the monster, it typically isn’t. But certainly do not use it before Hand Knife as the knock back applies even to monsters immune to knock back when combined with Deprotect Zone
Edit:
You’re right multiple PDs do lose value. But only because incinerate doesn’t stack from different sources. However it’s still nice to have staggered Bloodletting. And in an ideal case you’d also stagger incinerates though the need becomes little if you’re applying it with a high debuff count
I should make a video of me soloing in those 3 star 230+ maps where I’d imagine most classes would be struggling. At the moment I can handle those high hp/ high damage magic monsters at a pretty consistent rate.
Between Full Heal, Revive, Heals, Safety Walls, and my build’s moderate damage it would appear to be among the top “soloist” types. Of course I’d imagine an Archer or Wizard would excel at maps where there were no ranged/mages. But this build offers an overall general coverage of any need.
Pretty much any Cleric has the survivability to solo those mobs end-game. The question is if that’s a constructive use of time.
I think we’d all agree no. So while it’s great that you can do that decently well, it’s ultimately a pointless task to be good at.
I just don’t get the logic of being a physical based Plague Doctor. I’d like to experience PD myself. But there’s no way in hell I’d use a Monk base for that.
Explain to me what makes your Plague Doctor better than an Intellect/Spirit based DPS Plague Doctor. Because I’m not seeing it.
An if the end goal is to be a below average Plague Doctor. What exactly is the point in that?
Why build a character around physical attack & melee statistics, then not maximise the only class that allows you to use those stats?
Circle 2 Monk doesn’t make nearly as much use out of those stats as Circle 3 does. Thus you’re in large part wasting those stats.
Physical based PD that can hold its own in melee while dishing out a Monk’s damage and bringing the utility of a PD.
What are the atlernatives that seem so very lucrative? Diev with Carve Attack (Out performed by Double Punch) or Owl statues that are easily avoidable/knocked away/pewing their poison in the wrong direction? Sadhu with their Astral Body explosion and Possession that hardly comes on par with something like Energy Blast or numerous Monk strikes?
In the game’s current state, Str or Int scales so poorly that you could throw 50 points into this or that and it really wouldn’t matter. In the same vein of being too fixated on “min/maxing” you’re throwing out the baby with the bath water if you avoid an amazing Class Advancement like Plague Doctor just because you cannot maximize the potential of Incinerate.
WHEN and IF Pandemic is proven useful, it’ll only benefit a Monk even more to have it in their kit. You need to be up in the fray to utilize it, and spreading your party’s debuffs will always be a plus. But you’re more asking what this particular build does better than other PD builds, not PD itself. For that, we’d have to begin an overall larger discussion that’ll never end. There is no king end build for Clerics. Their core is support, and at the end, well-rounded is probably what it’ll always be optimized to be, if not full support.
And sure maybe any Cleric can survive those mobs, the argument wasn’t that. It’s how many others can perform as well in those scenarios. I’m not sure how you throw the merit of that feat so easily away. If a Class can stand well on its own in some of the more difficult settings, it’ll only be proven stronger in a group setting.
Hey… right now I play the similar build like yours, but I take pardoner rather than monk… I use mainly auto attack and incineration - discerning - pandemic combo, about 220 dex and 90 con, no int and str at all
I can confirm that physical plague doctor is viable mainly because incineration damage scale itself without any investment in magic attack, per tick is about 2000 with maxed attribute (we can get magic attack from weapon 300 from catacomb mace - and 170 from blessing, its already like 470 int),
so the incineration is like filler to our physical attack… And as pardoner I can confirm this is the easiest build to solo until endgame, you can fill those lack of dps with money (better weapon scales better because of very high dex -> 1,5 times damage), also the survivability is very high mainly because you have evasion, block, and rather high hp
That’s not the question I’m asking though. You both seem to be telling me the benefit of Plague Doctor. I’m not questioning the benefit of Plague Doctor I’m well aware it’s a powerful class.
I’ll explain it like this.
Is physical based Plague Doctor better than magical based Plague Doctor = Yes/No. (ignoring other factors of the build we’ll get to those)
If = Yes = Then class has a viable niche, thus build is legitimate.
If = No = Is Monk 2 Better DPS than Magical based Cleric = Yes/No?
If = Yes = Then class has a viable niche, thus build is legitimate.
If = No = Is the overall build better at support than a magic based Cleric = Yes/No?
If = Yes = Then class has a viable niche, thus the class is legitimate.
If = No = Does the overall class heal better than a magical based Cleric = Yes/No?
If = Yes = Then class has a viable niche, thus the build it legitimate.
If = No = Then what the fu-k is the point of the build?
Because to all those questions the answer seems no to me. I’ll throw you a bone an say maybe this build has a survivability niche over all other Clerics. But Cleric is already the most survivable class in the game.
I don’t see the point of making it more durable outside of PvP.
I already addressed that. And you’re asking a loaded question. You’re essentially asking a leading question like, “Is a Int based Swordsman better than a Str based Swordsman”. Loaded Question. I don’t see how you can asses a Class in this game without looking at all the variables such as, Class Ranks, Stat builds, skill choices.
The very first post address all of this lol.
It’s not a loaded question. I’m asking quite simply if I make a correctly specced intellect based Cleric Plague Doctor.
What exactly are you going to offer to a team better than what I offer.
It doesn’t seem to be DPS.
It doesn’t seem to be Support.
It doesn’t seem to be Healing.
So what exactly do you offer?
It should take you less than a single paragraph to spell that out. One single paragraph explaining what your class has to offer over an intellect based Plague Doctor.
I don’t want to here what’s good about Plague Doctors. I want to hear what makes your Plague Doctor build not just an inferior version to an Intellect based one using magical attacks.
Uh… you keep talking about INT PD but PD has never been about Incinerate, but rather about it’s CC immunity & Survivability in PvP.
I don’t see any diference between a INT PD and a STR PD for PvP, where you get PD to not get fisted by wizards like you do without it.
I think you’re looking at it in a PvE perspective, not PvP.
You’re still looking at things too narrowly. It’s a Monk build. It’s a jack of all trades. Your concerns are addressed in the original post, perhaps not strictly written out. It’s there for you to comprehend and make those inferences yourself.
I don’t know how more loaded your question can get. [quote=“Menech, post:66, topic:182309, full:true”]
It’s not a loaded question. I’m asking quite simply if I make a correctly specced intellect based Cleric Plague Doctor.
What exactly are you going to offer to a team better than what I offer.
[/quote]
You’re asking me to compare my build to some imaginary build you’ve yet to highlight.
That might be it, @Menech if you’re not looking for something that has PvP viability and strictly focus on PvE this entire guide might not be for you. I’m pretty satisfied with how I’ve performed in GvG with this character so far. PD in every party is a must, so many things are avoided in PvP settings from Bloodletting. I laugh at the enemies as I move around freely and drop energy blasts on them. Providing my own Status protection is absolutely amazing. And when you land those incinerates, oh the joy. Providing max rank revives for my party is gold. Although it bugs out sometimes and doesn’t trigger the 50% HP heal, when it does and the 10 seconds of invincibility happens, ohhhhhh boy. Free reign, or a second chance at surviving.
I already acknowledged the build should be decent for PvP. This is a question of PvE. Since you asked for a build I decided to provide you with one.
Keep in mind I’m no expert with Plague Doctor, I just made this build around doing everything your build does but better in PvE.
It’s definitely going to have more DPS, an better healing I don’t think anyone would debate that.
I also think overall it has a better range of support skills. An a higher level of Plague Doctor skills thanks to Cleric buff.
What would make your build specifically for PvE better than this for example?