also I thought of another counterpoint. we tested this with other skills, bash, thrust, wagon wheel, heal, cure, zaibas, fireball, firewall, earth quake, umbal blow, energy bolt and catar stroke. Energy bolt was the only spell that was off and it was EXACTLY 1.5 off EVERY single time. same with catar and 1.1. These skills are special edge cases from what I can tell. THOUGH there might be more I did not test every skill. Either case the math still is exact every single time. The multipliers don’t make it wrong.
Thing about concentrate and blessing is that it only takes one charge per attack, but still procs off all hits you do.
At first it seems like a pittance, a measly +11 damage for a rank 5 ability? What’s the deal here? But then you get the full cafrisun set and get an extra hit. Suddenly every attack does +11 twice, for one charge per attack. Then you team up with a pyromancer and get the flame enchant, and suddenly you get +11 thrice per attack. Team up with a priest too for the holy enchant and you get four +11 procs per attack. Add blessing on top of that, which then also procs four times… All of a sudden it adds up. And as the guy says, stabbing attack from hoplite, which is like what, 10 hits on a single attack? Proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc proc.
no, “multi hit” attacks only get concentrate damage ONCE cause they are only ONE hit split evenly or randomly (depending on the attack) between the individual displayed numbers. they always add up to (atk+skill-def)+concentrate
no it takes one charge for skills that only hit once, like i said some skills SHOW more hits but its just one. its an illusion. exceptions are rare so far.
Honestly the time it takes to cast concentrate (lvl 5) is not worthwhile. The extra hit you can get in will do more damage than you get out of the entire set of hits. On my barbarian I stopped using the skill entirely, especially during boss fights, as missing on that 1 hit because I was casting a buff was actually worse DPS.
As for higher ranks, I strongly disagree that it’s more worthwhile to take ranks in swordsman than to change, especially to attempt to max out on a flat damage skill like concentrate.
I think it should be changed to some kind of percentage buff, or maybe a stat % ( STR, DEX ?) increase.
to be the most effective it should be 1% of base attack power turned into concentrate damage (not reduced by slash/hit/stab modifiers)
You usually have time to use the buff while dodging, when you can’t hit the boss because it is dangerous. But yes it is probably not good for 2h builds with high burst damage like Barbarian. I’m thinking about using it on subweapon cancel because it would make a significant amount of the DPS with enough attribute points.
Hi Dyne, thanks so much for sharing this. Amazing job that you did. I have two issues nonetheless:
- A question, where does the “atk bonuses” from “Actual damage = (atk+skill atk+ atk bonuses - def)” come from?
- Bonus attack damage from buff varies. Ranger’s steady aim is multiplied by critical. The additional damage is even visible on the screen (e.g: steady aim +18, if crits steady aim +36)
Oh, I have another inquiry. Does anybody know how attribute multiplier actually works? Does it +% your skill attack or your overall (total) attack? Thanks!
- atk bonuses are just that, buffs which boost atk, or gear.
- “additional damage” as written verbatim always shows up in game as “concentrate +15” next to the damage numbers over monsters heads (15 is just a substituted value here for and example) it does NOT crit, the ranger skill might be a mistranslation or a odd case cause yeah i see it saying the same thing.
crits arent 2x damage anyway so your numbers are not actually pulled from the game.
I’m not guessing.
I know.
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attribute % boost is calculated from FINAL damage not including concentrate damage
Oops. I have to apologize for almost giving mis-leading information. Thanks again for clarifying this! I checked my screenie and didnt realize that the + damage I got was from blessing instead of steady aim. Silly me haha
And if you would please elaborate a bit more about the attribute % boost, I would be grateful.
If for example, I have lvl 5 Critical Shot with 200 skill attack and my character attack is 1000. Thus (without crit), the damage will roughly be 1200. With crit, take it roughly as 2x so it will be 2400.
Then I have attribute lvl 100 of Critical Shot which is listed as +100% damage. Would it be:
- Critical Shot 200 + Attribute bonus (100%x200) + character attack 1000 = 1400. Crit be 2800; or
- Critical Shot 200 + character attack 1000 = 1200 + Attribute bonus (100%x1200) = 2400. Crit be 4800; or
- else?
Sorry for buying your time, but I will appreciate your concern. Thanks a lot mate!
no look at the formula as i wrote it. where it says type you can substitute attribute in there too. before or after type, it doesnt really matter
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Got it. So it comes after the crit modifier. Thanks a bunch.
honestly im not entirely sure but the math should be roughly the same in either case.
Is Concentrate somehow different from Blessing? Or is it just how the spear’s multihit itself.
Because Blessing definitely adds damage to both my main swing and Sacrament’s proc.
its the same thing if it shows orange numbers and the value on each hit
From another thread.
And I’m not sure by your ‘its the same thing’ as in
‘the total damage is equal to (atk-def) + conc’
or that Concentrade will add bonus to Sacrament/Enchant Fire bonus hit as well.
Mainly because the post you replied to mentions using multiple elemental damage proc to benefit more from Concentrate as well as the multihit spear attack from Hoplite.
does sacrement add to your stat window’s “attack” stat? what about blessing? are you playing on the korean server? with blessing on iCBT it would show “blessing +82” on each attack. How old are these screenshots? as it’s beta things are subject to change.
also your sample size is inadequate for weapons you can see the physical stat has a 30 point variance and I don’t even know if this monster is resistant to your weapon type or holy damage. do it again with punches to remove the weapon variables.
also do one with blessing and no sacrement
It’s not my screenshot. And it’s iCBT if I’m not mistaken. (also, I’m not in KR beta)
I’m just asking for clarification of Concentrate + bonus hits (Sacrament/Enchant Fire/4pc Cafrisun) since your original post seem to lump it together with effects that make one attack into multi-hit (like Catar Stroke from Highlander) with these, and that screenshot shows that for Blessing at least it add to both the main hit and extra hit.
If you’re going to make a damage formula, then might as well cover things properly, no?
As someone that is going to be playing Hoplite this would be great to clear up. It would also be even better if there was less hostility in here.