Last time I looked at the market tokens were 13mill (Silute) … are they THAT expensive now? I should start selling tokens… 
Edit: Just checked: cheapest ones 11mill, more expensive ones 12mill. I think they don’t get (for now, at least) higher than 13mil. I know I wouldn’t buy them.
But afaik, prices varies greatly between servers… not sure how it is now on others.
There may actually be a good justification for the market comission fee, however accidental. One of its “good” effects is that is punishes overpricing (as mentioned by one user above). Supposing you sell an item at a high price and then no one buys, the comission fee exists to force you into lowering your price the next time you want to post, thereby controlling rampant inflation. It is true, I will agree with you: it is harsh on the seller but the after effect is overall more lenient to buyers in the long run. However, as I said, it’s quite likely accidental and wasn’t the intention in the first place.
As for taxes for businesses? Scrap them. They don’t help anyone. All it does is push up prices and make selling inefficient.
A slight correction:
Just because they post at 20m does not mean that they “sell”. The only way to determine this is whether or not they continue to sell at that price after an entire series of auction “cycles” (which, in this game is 7 days.)–even then, that may not necessarily be conclusive since it will depend on how much these sellers lose in the long run. In short, it’s kind of early to tell at this point. Supposing the price maintains, then, yes, I will have to agree with you on that one.
Yes, I know that, I figure giving an extended explanation to the raging child that started this whole thread would go too far above his head.
His reply to me pretty much proves his age.
(Also because, i sold a couple leftover tokens when I came back at 16-18m, figured 20m is the point where people stopped buying. Or is that the market cap? Forgot how the silly limits worked)
how Irony, so calling people poor and a kid is mature to you? lol. arent you the butthurt one here? i have a feeling your real account starts with H 
I think this thread should have been focused on suggesting/critizing token benefits instead of market price.
It’s just absolutely pointless to talk about it otherwise as the company doesn’t have any obligations to keep the token price in check, which they have somewhat done before.
It’s really a huge benefit for free players to have the option available in the first place.
As I have tried to explain before there’s multiple factors that go into the pricing of tokens.
I think it’s very shortsighted to assume people are greedy for it.
Should these people buy tokens and sell them cheap as some kind of charity? Why is it so awful to want to benefit from it? Isn’t gacha and especially diamond anvils more of an issue than token market price…?
Honestly this thread is starting to look like just whining of not wanting to work towards getting a token and wanting an easy way to obtain it which is absolutely silly.
I also refuse to accept the new player argument anymore as it’s simply not realistical to provide a cheap token sale to them, it just doesn’t work and won’t work. There’s other solutions to that and this threads purpose is clearly not to address them.
because this in particular, I don’t think IMC will do anything about it. If you’ve been in the forums for long you will see many people complaining about the attribute learning and trading.
Their reasoning for trading is to counter bots (lol, a big f.u. to everyone in the game and bots are just laughing).
I don’t think they’ll remove this benefit, it’s a reason to keep tokens selling and you know they’ll do everything to get more out of their business.
This is why we go back to killing inflation instead of lowering token benefits further(which is less likely to happen).
There is also this ET issue where you wouldn’t get invited because you don’t have a token making their runs stuck at 1/2 and have to find another non token user instead of anyone.
Hello everyone!
I think this might be useful for the discussion in some ways.
Token benefits:
Able to learn attributes instantaneously:
1.a) Breaks basic gameplay.
1.b) Is really inconvenient. On top list of issues.
1.c) Does not effectively affect bots or other cheaters.
1.d) Compared to other games, is a bad thing.
Reduced Market commission fee (from 30% to 10%):
2.a) Does not break basic gameplay.
2.b) Is a little inconvenient along with other token features.
2.c) Affects bots. But doesn’t really effectively stops them.
2.d) Compared to other games, is reasonable, but mostly a bad thing. Some games applies reductions to exp or resources obtained from farming.
Able to list up to 10 items on the Market:
3.a) Does not break basic gameplay.
3.b) Is a little inconvenient along with other token features.
3.c) Affects bots. But doesn’t really effectively stops them.
3.d) Compared to other games, is reasonable. Some games doesn’t allow market listing at all if you’re not a premium player. Although you usually can manually trade or sell to previously listed offers. Some might require you to manually arrange trades or use 3rd party software for this end.
Able to use Premium Gestures
5.a) Does not break basic gameplay.
5.b) Cosmetic feature.
5.c) Does not affect bots.
5.d) Compared to other games, is totally fine.
Increased maximum buff count: N/A. Removed.
Able to use Personal Trade up to 30 times.
7.a) Breaks basic gameplay.
7.b) Is really inconvenient. On top list of issues.
7.c) Affects bots. But game features advanced in a way where this doesn’t effectively stops bots. Affects RMTers because it makes it harder to go unnoticed. Prevents mass-trading.
7.d) Compared to other games, is a really bad thing.
1 extra instance entry for missions and dungeons.
8.a) Does not break basic gameplay.
8.b) Is inconvenient. Especially on content like Earth Tower and Raids.
8.c) Affects bots. Although silver farmed from dungeons is now reduced. So, afaik, it doesn’t effectively affects them currently.
8.d) Compared to other games, is a little reasonable. Some games disallows access to entire regions or contents without a premium account.
Token price and ability to buy them with varying effort.
9.a) Does not break basic gameplay.
9.b) Is convenient and inconvenient at the same time.
9.c) Affects bots but not effectively. Requiring silver investment for alt accounts effectively increases the effort to set them up and can make it inviable to keep them for long.
9.d) Comparing to other games, is actually fair. Most other games have far more expensive premium accounts if bought with in-game currency. On these games you’re supposed to pay money for the premium account when starting. On the other hand the restrictions are what mostly makes this a bad thing.
Relationship with other players.
10.a) Does not break basic gameplay.
10.b) Is inconvenient. Requires more effort to participate on same content.
10.c) Affects bots and alt accounts. Prevents certain abuses or makes them inviable.
10.d) Compared to other games, is fine. Our main problem is with the community: It’s totally possible to change characters for the second Earth Tower entry and use this to farm two pieces at once instead of one, the end result is the same. But in practice players will judge you even if you have 2 well geared characters. The only big problem here is, again, trading, since you can’t effectively sell items but it doesn’t really stops you from buying or selling weapons intended for transcendence, since they get locked to a character anyway.
I hope this covers all of tokens benefits with both points of view, but also considering “what if there was no restriction” on some of the items. I also hope this helps the discussion in a healthy and good way.
Have a great night! o/
If it’s about inflation a premium item being too expensive is a poor reasoning to ask changes to it.
If I think about this thread and how it’s mostly built upon the new player argument it falls flat on reduced inflation as it doesn’t help them as much on acquiring tokens than others.
It more comes down to regular players whining about not having an easy way to obtain token, which is silly.
People should either suck it up or buy it with real money.
This is not to say that I disagree with the need for more measures against inflation. But when asking for them the discussion should be focused entirely on something else.
I mean if you really think about it. Why would IMC care that people have a hard time buying token from the market? Is that in any way logical to someone?
Token is an intented premium feature. I get that the benefits can be too good for those without it but in the end it’s meant primarily for paying players. As I said having the option to sell it in market is already a great benefit.
Most people buy token from market still cause they find no reason paying for it as it’s reasonably easy to obtain, better save real money. So when people start complaining it’s too hard it’s just doesn’t make any sense. Like cmon just buy it for tp then.
tl.dr Inflation discussion should be focused on something else to get IMC’s attention. This is hardly seen as anything else than whining about something they don’t need to care about.
Because this affects both parties. I can have perma token anytime I want, I got the money. But I can’t trade with someone without token who has the item I want.
I don’t want the things I get to become 0 market value, untradable.
Premium feature yes, but look at what’s locked behind it. I’m having a lot of problems with trading right now and it isn’t fun at all. By far the biggest annoyance other than seeing bots around.
Yes, I am affected by those who do not have token status or trade count because they don’t have it and I cannot trade with them.
and they can’t even buy tokens just to trade, it’s too expensive and they don’t have time to farm/waste 15m-20m every month just to trade.
And about you saying people buy market on tokens because it’s better than paying TP, I think otherwise. They stopped buying tokens at all. You see in CM it’s pretty common for someone to not have the token buff now, more so with the people I chat who wanted to buy my stuff with trading other things can’t because of this stupid token feature which is crucial for everyone
Token price inflation discourages people to buy it. Soon we’ll reach that majority of the players won’t even have it so you have to suck it up and get untradables.
This is very common in SEA server where a lot third world countries are playing
I don’t really to get into the discussion this way. But I feel that most people not buying Tokens with TP is simply the effect of most players getting used to cheap Tokens and now facing expensive Tokens with the same “I won’t use my money” point of view they had before.
But as someone else in the thread said, it’s fault of the culture we built over months in the past, especially with GvG TP.
If we had no cheap Tokens from the start we wouldn’t feel bad about buying them with TP. :x
And this point view is especially wrong when the excuse is new players, but this culture mostly comes from old players.
Sorry if this was offensive or bad to get into the discussion like this, but I kinda wanted to. :x
It makes me feel that “people not wanting to buy Token with TP because community culture” and “some non-Token restrictions are bad” are different issues.
EDIT: Sorry for the edits. I couldn’t edit it after posting, only was able to now.
Everything you just said I agree is difficult. But imo it’s all about a different discussion than token pricing on the market.
It’s more about the token benefits/freeplayer restrictions and I think thats something that should be talked about instead.
I get that there’s annoying things about it and it would be much better for all to have a token.
It’s just difficult to do cause you need to ensure that people buy enough tokens to want to sell them in the first place and then being able to make profit out of it. (Otherwise there’s no tokens in the market.) I mean I think they added them to leticia cubes cause no one was buying enough of them directly.
Anyways if they don’t sell in the market the price will just drop. The issue will solve itself but if enough people will buy them it won’t be an issue to IMC.
There’s the issue of people getting too much behind because of inflation and it’s a much better argument against inflation than token price.
It just really comes down to ensuring that every casual and new player has a cheap way to obtain token for the convenience of the gameplay, which is unreasonable. (And in many ways not possible.)
Anyway I look at this and the arguments support the need for two different discussions.
1.Token benefits or freeplayer restrictions need change.
2. Inflation needs more measures to lessen the bridge between rich and poor players.
Token price in the market is just not the proper way to have either of these and I don’t think it should be used as an argument in either.
Right now, if you put them below 17m they’re almost instant sell.
Don’t forget, bots and RMTers are direct competitors with tokens too. They need it for maximum profit, which is why I was complaining about them, and inflation.
There’s been a sudden rise of bots recently, could be directly related to the dungeon nerf.
So I won’t really expect token to go back down so soon, the gem npc in fedimian is a nice silver sink, but people aren’t really able to maximize it again because of IMC’s timed feature.
They’re two discussions yes, but directly related to what’s happening in the game and why the price has risen up.
Bots cause inflation + competing with token market > higher token price > more casual players complaining
This token discussion has been here since EA and introduction, we’ve complained particularly about the movespeed and trade count. I don’t care about extra instances like ET, but nothing was really done about trading because “counter bots”…when in fact they’re the ones buying it themselves.
I mean sure if you guys are actually fine with this and token pricing, keep it up(at least reading at the discussion, you don’t), I barely see anyone new staying right now, specially once they see that they actually need to buy and maintain tokens status to progress or get everything by themselves and screw it with layers of rng.
See how much these bots have done now, you’d see the impact they can do, even damsel orbs price dropped when new bots infested zeteor coast. If they were to bulk sell these things+primus loots they got, they need token to maximize profit. They’re getting more than 10m a day just with silvers anyway.
“Body is too similar to what you recently posted” when I haven’t posted anything, thanks imc forum
Quick note:
“Body is too similar to what you recently posted” is an error due to Discourse platform. Probably related to ServiceWorkers. Your request was sent to the workers and these most likely denies your next request while trying to push your first one to the forums.
I hope this clears the doubt of why it happens.
[]'s o/
yeah I’m aware, but it’s never fun to use forums with all these errors popping out…
again.
it’s not about not being able to buy token with TP.
whale’s are not supposed to earn tons of silver just by selling token! this is why silver value is ■■■■.
lmao you know they can sell a lot of tokens to make a lot of profit, besides gacha is the true profit maker not tokens
you really don’t seem to understand how this all works at all
who says they don’t? wtf xD I’m just saying 20m is just too much and its as good as RMT already. that’s just ■■■■■■ up. come on man I know you’re not retarded like them. xD
Don’t bother, he dosen’t understand that people like him being able to buy tokens on the market is just a side effect of allowing folks to legally RMT silver.
If IMC removed token sales on the market (I’d say its a disadvantage overall for the game, but I wouldn’t mind just to watch some people rage), anyone who wanted to legally RMT will just shift over to the gacha drops.
Anyway, for those that are following this thread and not commenting:
Being able to sell cash store stuff on the ingame currency market came aboard from the idea that the makers of the game (in this case, IMC), would be able to profit from people who wanted to buy the ingame currency with RL cash, instead of buying from 3rd party traders (the oft-complained about bots and spammers).
Again, for those who still do not get it…
The ‘whales’ are supposed to be able to PURCHASE (not earn, literally purchase) ingame currency for cash. That is the whole point of allowing TP items to be sold on the ingame market. YES, IT IS LEGAL RMT. AND YES, IT IS WORKING AS INTENDED.
No one should be required to sell tokens cheap. All of these folks complaining about token prices are choosing beggars (Reddit - Choosing Beggars).
If the silver value drops, it only means 2 things:
Normally speaking, its an influence of both 1 + 2. As some ‘whales’ leave the game, or have bought up enough ingame currency for their uses, they stop spending, which means there’re less cash store stuff on the market, and the ingame currency cost for each cash store item goes up.
This is an extremely simplified economy lesson.
As a side point that’s not related to the above:
TP being given out as participation awards in an ingame event was a bad idea for IMC. A separate rewards store using those points would’ve worked better.
It’s a method to separate between Cash > Ingame currency (lets call it $>IC), and Ingame Gameplay > Ingame Currency (IG>IC) conversion.
Mixing up $>IC with IG>IC rewards makes players believe that the listed prices of TP store stuff reflects what the ‘whales’ would really sell their RL cash purchases for. Which really isn’t the case (I recall poking around and seeing some threads regarding there being 0 tokens being sold, purely because of the low silver cap).
In actuality, the $>IC conversion would be closer to what the RMT sites are offering. People would always go for whichever gave a better rate, as long as it is not too complicated.
So, for a simple example, assuming 100TP (1 token) goes for $10, which sells for 20m
If the RMT sites offer $5 for 20m, you’re going to have a decent amount of people who’d directly buy from the RMTers, and not IMC (In which case, its a loss for IMC).
If, on the other hand, the RMT sites offer $8 for 20m, the number of people who’d rather legally RMT, and not be caught (Yes, they are getting less value for money, but its ‘safer’ overall), would increase, and the amount of cash store items available for purchase from the general population for ingame currency would increase (And IMC gets their money)
Then, in the extremely rare case where the legal RMT conversion rate + simplicity of use is BETTER than the RMTers… The bots slowly decrease, as there is less/no profit to be made. The whole point of the botters is to sell the silver after all.
So how does this affect the token price? Each token sold (Say, 18m) involves an initial tax of 2.5% (7 days), which is 450,000. Then there is a transaction tax of 10%, for another 1.8m. Someone selling a token for 18m would only receive 15.75m, instead of the listed 18m (17.5m in the case of a 20m token)
That would mean a conversion rate of (using SEA/SA prices) 1 dollar per 1.97m silver for a 18m token and 2.19m for a 20m token.
If the bots offer much better rate…you guys can pretty much say goodbye to tokens even being available on the market 
for the most part.
EDIT: 100 TP for SEA (As I am located in SEA) costs $8.10, which works out to $0.27 per day (considering a 30 day month). There is utterly no excuse to not be able to afford one, if you can already afford to play an online game. If you cannot afford one, you really have bigger issues to worry about than being able to subscribe to a game.