Tree of Savior Forum

Gemstone Feud Feedback


#1

With [Re:Build] Gemstone Feud has seen some huge shifts in how it feels and how it is played. Here are some observations about the current state of the mode and how I or some people I know feel about it.

  1. It’s awfully laggy! This is the most apparent issue right now. I’m sure that IMC is always working on improving the servers/netcode, but it’s worth pointing this out.

  2. Damage on neutral objectives is really weirdly tuned. Small crystals die in a few basic attacks while monsters and big crystals take a bit more work. The boss can die within 5 seconds with the appropriate setup. It’s unusual that small crystals should take less work to kill than monsters, especially since they drop ten times as many gems. It is nice that crystals and monsters are easy to kill, since that allows weaker players to participate and farm gems. Having these things be generally weak is also nice because I can save skills for actual fighting. It is bad that the boss that spawns at 5-minutes dies so quickly since it makes it so that there isn’t really anything to fight over.

  • My suggestion is to make the boss tankier, or have his tankiness scale with the size of the match. Further, make the crystals a little bit tougher compared to the small monsters. Alternatively, the small monsters could be made weaker than the crystals.
  1. The team NPC are far too weak. The NPC where players turn in their gems die far too easily. They can die in a single attack, making point accumulation extremely frustrating. Points are constantly being lost by the NPC dying and there are long stretches of time during which players must wait for the NPC to respawn. This is further exacerbated by extremely fast and/or invisible classes. Gemstone feud as it is now, it is just playing tower defense against a flock of suicide bombers, while your tower always has only 1 HP. Scouts are particularly annoying when defending since they are very difficult to detect. Schwartzer Reiters are particularly annoying since they are so fast and can go invisible.
  • At the very least, make the NPC tankier. Optionally, consider adding something besides damage to deter attackers. Perhaps a slow or cloak detection could be added so that attackers are more susceptible to counterattack when they make an attempt on the NPC.
  1. Clerics seem to be overbearing. There isn’t enough damage and clerics seem to have every tool to counter so-called counters to clerics. With revive and heals, a lot of damage is required to beat a cleric. With the new damage tuning, it feels far too difficult to basically kill a cleric twice. One would think that assassin’s heart piercer would be a counter to clerics’ healing, but plague doctor’s beak mask nullifies that. This leads me to the next point.
  • Plague doctor’s beak mask is near-impossible to play around when combined with clerics’ many other options. Beak mask makes plague doctors nearly unstoppable. With a 60-second duration and 10-second cooldown, plague doctors can maintain perpetual debuff immunity. While some stuns (Pied Piper’s Dissonanz and Assassin’s Instant Acceleration) can stop plague doctors, plague doctors also happen to have a crazy speed boost in modafinil. There are tools to catch plague doctors, but they’re extremely difficult to hit with their high movement speed. I’ve heard that beak mask could be removed using brick break with swell hands, but I think it’s unreasonable that two different classes to put two classes together in one build just to deal with beak mask. And even if we could force beak mask off, its unreasonably short cooldown means it could easily be re-equipped.

  • Clerics being unstoppable and unkillable healers might not be so unreasonable if they were just healers, but they also have considerable kill pressure. Inquisitors seem to do huge amounts of damage without depending on other classes to boost that damage. With the boost in base attack across the board, wizards are obliterated by Malleus Maleficarum, God Smash makes light work of players’ armor, and Ripper is amazing for capturing targets to setup for everything else. Oracle’s Twist of Fate combined with Prophecy and Death Sentence means having a skill that can kill anyone under 50%, even a tank. And this is without any weapon investment or needing synergies with other classes. Clerics seem to get amazing offensive options without seriously sacrificing defensive or support options.

  • Give us more counterplay against beak mask. If beak mask weren’t so strong then everything else about PvP clerics wouldn’t be so glaring. They wouldn’t be able to go anywhere they want, heal whenever they want, or attack whenever they want. If plague doctor could be disabled, then they wouldn’t be able to heal and would get killed. If an inquisitor could be disabled, they wouldn’t be able to take advantage of their unreasonable amounts of damage. Giving beak mask a shorter duration, longer cooldown, or just generally less effectivenss would make it less obnoxious. Alternatively, we could give more or easier options against beak mask. Perhaps let Murmillo’s Headbutt take off helmets. Maybe make Assassin’s Brick Smash not require swell hands while giving the swell hands interaction some other effect.

  • Reduce the part of Malleus Maleficarum that deals damage based on the target’s magic attack. The scaling ratio feels like it is more suitable for pre-rebuild attack numbers.

  • Make Twist of Fate depend on current HP instead of max HP, and maybe just for PvP. Or maybe add a time delay on the damage so that its reliability is reduced. I argued that ToF is a sure-kill on any target below a certain threshold, but that’s only an issue if enemies can reach that threshold. An oracle on its own probably won’t have the damage to make that happen. However, in a team setting, just having that skill is a huge threat against their opposition.


#2

That’s a stupid idea tbh. Twist of Fate should stay the way it is,
If you want to balance it with current HP, it just becomes weak, since it recovers twice the amount of HP lost unless you invest in the attribute, making it stupidly weak.

Also, guess what? It’s not affected by cards and attack buffs like Death Sentence, so you can’t really get it any better than it currently is.

And you forgot two things:

  1. there is Peltatsta, which is extremely hard till impossible to kill without Twist of Fate. Twist of Fate is the natural counter to Peltasta.

  2. Twist of Fate compensates for evaded damage by Scouts/Archers.
    Since Scouts&Archers can evade a lot of your incoming attacks, it’s only justified that once you’ve executed up to twice the amount of attacks to deal the same damage due to low accuracy on Clerics, you can take them down in one hit.

Clerics only have 3 Classes like everyone else.
If you put Plague Doctor and Oracle on it, you only have one left to deal damage.
That means you sacrifice two Classes for support to have one that deals damage, which is what I call equivalent exchange. There is no real benefit in such a build outside of PVP.

Beak Mask can be removed by Mikos Gohei and by Retiarius’ Disarm, if you’re looking for more abilities.

If you’re looking for real pains, why not look at Scouts being invulnerable while dealing damage, e.g. Bullet Markers Bloody Overdrive, which deals damage and simultaneously makes him immune to damage?
If he cloaks into your base your NPC is dead.

That would be stupid, since it only lasts 10 seconds and requires at least 8 points into the skill to be substantial threat. There’s nothing keeping you from swapping the weapon to something with a low matk in these 10 seconds to receive less overall damage.

And if you’re caught in Iron Maiden,you’re already dead anyway.


#3

Okay. Someone misinformed me regarding the skill’s synergies. Still annoying that being under 33% means guaranteed death, but just somewhat less annoying than 50%.

Peltasta is also way too strong. If they weren’t so impossible to kill then Twist of Fate wouldn’t also need to be so strong.

What I’m saying is that you only need one circle for damage as a cleric. You just go inquisitor and you’re done. Oracle is separate. If you happen to want to go a full support build with oracle you don’t even need to build damage to be a damage threat while also immensely improving the survivability and damage of your team. Whether or not there is benefit outside is PvP in a discussion of how strong things are in PvP.

I must admit that I overlooked these abilities, but their AoE is small and it’s difficult hitting a plague doctor that’s also on modafinil. Like I pointed out before, even if you manage to land these skills (good luck) the plague doctor can put the mask right back on due to the low CD/long duration of beak mask.

These are annoying too, but just because it’s annoying doesn’t make beak mask any less frustrating to deal with. I already pointed out that scouts are obnoxiously good at killing the pathetically weak NPC. Besides, scouts can be caught exiting these skills with crowd control. Long-duration CC’s like magnetic force or frost pillar are especially good at this.

Ten seconds? Ten seconds is the duration of the debuff. Is that what you’re talking about? An inquisitor isn’t going to need that if the wizard is dead with the first button press. As for unequipping their weapon - that’s just asking to die. As long as the inquisitor does not spend their Malleus cooldown they can hold onto the threat against a wizard. The wizard is rendered useless and unable to fight until the skill is used. The moment the wizard decides they might try to use their real weapon and do some damage they get nuked.


#4

The fact that the NPC and the middle Boss can die to anyone in 1 hit makes gemstone really unfun right now.
They should be team objectives that takes multiple players to take it down being high-risk and high-rewards things that can make comebacks possible but now it just feels like a clownfiesta where anyone runs at it throw any skill and it’s dead.
Gemstone is really lackluster right now.


#5

1 - When a member enters the party the game hangs for 5 - 10 seconds, this happens to all my guild friends.

2 - During Gemstone Feud the connection drops and I can not go back, this also happens to everyone on the server and while we are in the game hangs several times.

I believe the 2 problems are related because during the first 5 minutes in the Feud Gemstone some new players enter the match.

Another serious problem is that the Miners Village channel falls when there are a lot of people, this needs to be resolved soon, there is an initial map that hinders even the new players, I think the entry should be on another map and with more channels.

Another serious problem is the amount of people in the Feud Gemstone, when it has 15 x 15 usually stays stable, when that number increases the connection gets worse, in matches of 25x25 the server drops. It should have a lower limit, for example 30 players.


#6

I’m not even sure if IMC is aware of Gemstone Feud situation right now since there’s not a single mention of it in the Known Issues posts. The thing is unplayable. You’re lucky if you even get to play an entire match without a single crash. It is laggy for the most of the time inside the feud and there are some weird unusual bugs that prevents you to move or to use skills. The whole experience is very frustrating.

And seriously, I can’t understand IMC’s logistic of “let’s develop content first, optimization later”. People will leave. Your game is not able to handle 40 players in the same map. ToS is in an unbelievable state where it needs to have LESS players for a better game experience.

This should be considered top priority IMC. I don’t know if there’s a definitive solution to this since it seems it’s a game engine problem, but you should be focusing on making the content you already have playable before adding new ones…