Tree of Savior Forum

Gems Test: Yellow Vs. Red (Glass Moles Included)


Info:

Tested on: https://tos.neet.tv/npcs/58483 (Yellow Caro) 206 cons / 514 DEF
Magic Arrow + Magic Arrow Gem:
http://puu.sh/sE0aV/aa8d37d1bc.jpg
Magic Arrow Attribute: Lv. 100
https://puu.sh/sz8Vm/583c811bdd.jpg
Crit Rate: 778


Lv. 6 Yellow Gems /w Glass Mole & Normal damage.


Lv. 6 Red Gems /w Glass Mole & Normal damage.


Conclusion:
Yellow Gems > Red Gems (unless EX. Scout 3’s Split Arrow / Wugu)

Yellow:

  • Less RNG dependent with high dex/crit meta
  • Better overall average damage
  • Consistence ticking damage
  • Doesn’t scale very well with Glass Moles
  • Need high Crit Rate

Red:

  • Scale really well with Glass Moles
  • higher max. damage
  • Inconsistence DPS (too much rng trying to max. attack)
  • Overall lower average damage comparing to yellow
  • Not very good with current high dex/crit meta
9 Likes

Special cases:

Wugushi
-Wugu poison cannot crit (yellow gem not recommended)

Scout 3
-split arrow is a T0 modifier (red gem gets double value, but still RNG), (T0 means it will double red gem value but NOT double crit attack of yellow gem)

Party with krivis 3 melstis (usually earthtower, and have ausrine too):
-red gem(/yellow gem) + glass mole card prolonged effect recommended (SR)

6 Likes

Yeah been running with Cleric 1- Krivis 3- Diev 3. It’s pretty broken. I still pref. yellow for all-round damage.

Good to know the theory craft I made a while ago was actually right. Thanks for the tests!

No problem :smiley: //20char

thanks for the test run!
btw, is there a list where we can see which skills has T1 mod and which has T0 mod? thanks in advance!

Thanks for test!

On the long run (r9+) with newer weapons or orange I believe reds will pull through with glass moles.

Percentage scaling is waaay too strong

I don’t think it changes anything (unless I misunderstood the math behind dmg calculation). If your attack increase (stat/equips/…), the bonus from your red gem (including mole) won’t be impacted since they stack additively.

if your skill is a T0 base mod it will stack multiplicative. E.g Covering fire. (Mod for clarification as stated btm, Covering fire is A T1, but i am using it’s value).

It’s a 1.5 off after 1.8 of physical glass mole and Red is flat.

Use reds if your skill are those that affect base mods.

Musket , etc this will work off better. everything else use yellow.

This only applies to now. If the scalar does get too high at one point PD/Max attack will generally win. Which might be the case next R9 we will see at it goes.

Edit for clarification: incase people got confused.

Just a small calculation on R9 if we include just 1 more glass mole.


100% attributes

level 8 gems on Red x3 main hand

0~1170 max attack average up of 585

glass mole 1.9

0~2223 = average up of 1111.5

1111 * 1.5 * 2 = 3334

Special case calcuation for % skill base mods 1.5x

take red

0~2223 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 2 = 0 ~ 10003

average up of 5000. ( at glass mole 1.9)

counting 1.8, ( the max damage is 2106))

–>0 ~ 9477 = average up of 4738.


VS

level 8 gems on Yellow x3 main hand

590 * 3 = 1770

after attr and crit

3540 bonus. ( just on attributes not counting t2 mods)

It gets closer and closer as time pass. If they add in % mods to all skill. Just render red gems as victor for that class…


TL;DR summarise
Base mod % skills go red , flat skills go yellow

Hope this clarifies those who are picking gems for all players.

1 Like

I’m sorry but i have very bad math. Can you say something simple?( for me Please) btw i just put lv7 Yellow gem on my isbality and i love it so much. ( My SR have high dex with some str 2:1) Do you think it’s a good idea or change it to the red one? Thank you

You’re assuming you can have your moles up 100% of the time which, not only is not possible but it also gets pretty expensive. Assuming you only use varnalessas, you can keep moles up once every 15 seconds, so that’s 6/15 seconds uptime -> 40% of +90% is +36% -> 585 *1.36 *1.5 *2 = 2386.8 vs 3540 from yellows. With +150% modifier, we have 585 *1.36 *1.5 *1.5 *2 = 3580.2 which is basically the same as using yellows

And most importantly… For classes that don’t even use glass moles, red gems don’t even stand a chance against yellow ones

But Covering fire = T1 not T0. why musket better with red gem?

And this, more than anything. I even covered that on another post a while back

I think I see Déjà vu “Bramia talk with Unicorn about calculation” again lol.

let try calculate a bit about red gem vs yellow gem with pretty simple way.

red gem lvl 7 = 310 yellow gem lvl 7 = 470
red gem average dmg = 155
red gem 10gm10 = 1552 = 310
red gem 10gm10 with crit = 3101.5 = 465

it’s 465 vs 470

red gem lvl 10 = 580 yellow gem lvl 10 = 870
red gem average dmg = 290 with 10gm10 = 2902= 580
red gem 10gm10 with crit = 5801.5 = 870

it’s 870 vs 870

res at 100% crit chance. you will need to use lvl10gm card*10 for got same power of yellow.

well only split arrow/wugushi or crit rate too low need red gem.

2 Likes

Thank you so much … it’s totally clear my thought. Ill stick with yellow gem for now.

you misread my summarize version?


There’s something very wrong on that RNG calcuation btw.
There are reasons why i use the whole range instead of using just the average value of 3 gems.

In reality it can 100 hits more than 50% of the damage and this goes as well to the below average and 0 bonus.

This is why you can only calculate Range averages after you add in the total damage.

If you use the base average as calcuation.
it’s pretty much diminish the point of total damage. Just a consideration.


Base mod and Skill mod does end up better with moles + red for various reasons. By and i mean both together.

Simple to say T0 mods in addition to T1 mods. If it’s just T0 it’s fine and will benefit off Red more anyway.

As for musket and so on i don’t see why you have an issue of throwing mp pot every 15 second to cap your headshot and covering fire since the cooldown of head shot is 20 and covering fire 15.

Skill cooldown rotation must be applied with consideration to most classes. Most class does have their heavy hitting skill all at 15 to 35 second cd

i can even argue that unless you have 970 critical rate you will not crit 100% and with 787 thats only 85 % of the time at most factoring one hit damage lost from crit and crit attack not processing.

Where as red gem will still function as intended.

it only ideal to consider this if you have a delicate chrono bot or full dex builds.

Again with full dex builds you are over amping your crit rate.
Whereas high dex builds can get additional 120 to 130 str which give you 120 to 130 PA plus crit attack.

i want to make a proper fair comparison but the general info must be given out.

The rest of us can handle the mechs and scenario building in versus to reality.


I mean you can even come back with saying glass mole usage is too troublesome! or if you don’t use a Lv15 pot you won’t have enough mana! Which stops your mana rotation cool down.

It’s a poison. The moment you use glass mole you will forget about ella.
This goes the same for wizards (chap).
The only one that does not really value chap/glass mole are classes that value defenses more like Swordies ( who can literally turn into a real bruiser tank).

Now, we each understand the ideal scenario and how much you micromanage.
As for mana management ever thought of into the rotation?
i actually did thought about it and the “laziness usage”/ not optimal usage.
Which i ask the general with full or high dex to yellow than red cause there a lot of situational conditional to use red.
This goes to the same as my musket thread why i advise people not to go rouge unless you are prepared for the shiet.

There are reason why some classes are good with GM and other and also ella and others plus yellow more than red.
It’s more of an open choice.

The moment you don’t use glass mole it’s as good as do not use Red because it diminish the value versus other gem.

Glass Mole and Red do come in pair, but for Classes that do not have base mod or skill mod (which is nearly 90% of the classes now). It differs from classes to classes and using Yellow is a better choice generally.


Koreans who are on the higher tier gaming have thought about it. I am pretty sure some of us have fiddle with it too.

As for the rest of us we will need to up our decision and situation consideration skills to be on the same level, at times we need to understand what we feel or think about the general layout of the class and how can we play it better.


Honestly it is not expensive really all you need is just blindly shoot at novaha for 1 h to get up to 100 of them

You are most likely pointing at my misleading use of base mod (for covering fire) i know. no worries about it, but below i have actually clarified it is just for a example. The actual skill calculation is different. Since it is a Skill mod that Applies After Crit damage.

edit 1-9: dun mind me was typing through my small phone
edit10: on pc.

yes which is why i said its near average but where is factoring base mod skills and skill mods

Dont forget linne bracelet :wink: wink wink

ikr… this is so much better than doppel eating mushroom drugs