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Class and Rank
#41

Guys, how do you think, who can do more damage in, say, 5 (or 10?) minutes to a boss, wiz3-ele3 or pyro2-ele3?

I heard many poeple say that pyro2-ele3 is the best boss dps. But I’m not sure if they took the fireball ‘football’ into account.

However, even without fireballs, pyro’s flameground lvl10 and fire pillar (with arde) may be better than just having quick cast. If anyone is good at maths (calculating all the skills , cds, animation delays and cast times for both builds with arde), could you tell us the final result?

Btw, how long are world boss fights? Never been in one…

#42

If you’re alone, I’d guess pyro.

I’ll do the maths using Minara’s build, and assume that both builds have equal base attack, and do equal amounts of auto attacks,

#43

Thanks! And use Arde Dagger for the calculations, please :two_hearts:

#44

I would say Pyro 2 Ele 3 too. However, when you get to rank 7, Wiz 3 Ele 3 will probably deal more damage as the quick cast will scale on all future rank.

#45

So, lets say that the ele has Quick cast up perfectly for every damage skill. 8/15 seconds of Hail and frost cloud are effected, and all the non-constant effects are effected. Total time will be 5 minutes

Frost cloud:
Every 30 seconds we do 8 seconds of 150% and 2 of 100%, at 3 hits per second.
Call it 36 * (matk+643) + 6 * (matk+643) or 42 * (matk+643)
Cloud gets 10 uses total, for 420 * (matk+643)

Hail:
Lasts 20 seconds, and hits ??? times per second. gonna call it 2.5.
every 45 seconds we do 8 seconds are quick cast, next 7 are not, last 5 are.
30 * (matk+309) + 17.5 * (matk+309) + 18.75 * (matk+309)
Hail is used 6 times, total damage is 397.5 * (matk+309)

Meteor:
Single hit for 4 * matk +2980
can be cast at full strength 3 times
total is 3 * 1.5 * (4 * matk +2980) or 18 * matk + 13410

Electrocute:
Hits 7? times for what I hear is not matk+575
can be cast 9 times, total damage is 9 * 1.5 * 7 (matk+575) or 94.5 * (matk + 575)

Prominence:
Who knows? call it one hit a second.
so 8 sec of quickcast and 2 sec of not, once a minute
12 * (matk+144) + 2 * (matk+144) is 70 * (matk+144)

Freezing sphere:
1.5 (matk +292), three in 30 seconds
1.5 * 1.5 * 3 * 10 * (matk +292) or 67.5 * (matk +292)

Magic Missile
4 hits, twice a cooldown, every 17 sec
can be used 17 times in 5 min
4 * 1.5 * 2 * 17 * (matk + 373) is 204 * (matk + 373)

Energy bolt
1.5 * (matk + 154) three in 9 seconds
1.5 * 1.5 * 3 * 33 * (matk + 154) or 222.75 * (matk + 154)

Earthquake + lethargy
2 * (matk + 112) every 17 sec
1.5 * 2 * 17 * (matk + 112) or 51 * (matk + 112)

Total Elementalist damage over 5 minutes:
420 * (matk+643) + 397.5 * (matk+309) + 18 * matk + 13410 + 94.5 * (matk + 575) + 70 * (matk+144) + 67.5 * (matk +292) + 204 * (matk + 373) + 222.75 * (matk + 154) + 51 * (matk + 112)
or
420+397.5+18+94.5+70+67.5+204+222.75+51 magic attack, plus 270060 +122827.5 + 13410 + 54337.5 + 10080 + 19710 + 76092 + 34303.5 + 5712
or An wiz-3 ele-3 deals 1545.25 magic attack + 606532.5 over 5 minutes

@Mirarara Do a check over to make sure I estimated number of hits more or less right, I’ve never been an Ele.

I’ll get on the pyro calc

edit fixed frost cloud and hail

1 Like
#46

Frost cloud:
Every 30 seconds we do 10 seconds at 3 hits per second.
Call it 30 * (matk+643)
Cloud gets 10 uses total, for 300 * (matk+643)

Hail:
Lasts 20 seconds, and hits ??? times per second. gonna call it 2.5.
every 45 seconds we do 20
50* (matk+309)
Hail is used 6 times, total damage is 300 * (matk+309)

Meteor:
Single hit for 4 * matk +2980
can be cast at full strength 3 times
total is 3 * (4 * matk +2980) or 12 * matk + 8940

Electrocute:
Hits 7? times for what I hear is not matk+575
can be cast 9 times, total damage is 9 * 7 (matk+575) or 63 * (matk + 575)

Prominence:
Who knows? call it one hit a second for 10 sec once a minute
10 * (matk+144) is 50 * (matk+144)

Freezing sphere:
1.5 (matk +292), three in 30 seconds
1.5 * 3 * 10 * (matk +292) or 45 * (matk +292)

Energy bolt
1.5 * (matk + 93) three in 9 seconds
1.5 * 3 * 33 * (matk + 93) or 148.5 * (matk + 93)

Earthquake + lethargy
2 * (matk + 112) every 17 sec
2 * 17 * (matk + 112) or 34 * (matk + 112)

The pyro has fireball 10, enchant flame 5, flame ground 10, fire pillar 5

Fireball:
10 hits, twice every 15 seconds

10 * 2 * 20 (matk + 234) is 400 * (matk + 234)

Flame ground:
1.5 hits per sec, for 25 sec, every 25 sec
1.5 * 25 * 12 * (matk +171) 450 * (matk +171)

Enchant flame

  • 30 damage per hit, I guess? add it in later

Fire Pillar:
2 hits per sec of 12 sec every 95 sec

2 * 12 * 3 * (matk + 161) or 72 * (matk + 161)

total is
(300 + 300 +12 + 63 + 50 + 45 + 148.5 + 34 + 400 + 450 + 72) * (matk + 30) +192900 + 92700 + 107280 + 36225 + 7200+ 13140 + 13810.5 + 3808 + 93600 + 76950 + 11592
or
1874.5 * (matk+30) + 649205.5
or
A pyro-2 ele-3 deals 1874.5 * (matk) + 705440.5 over 5 mintues

So yes, pyros are better at soloing bosses, in perfect conditions.

Matk is Level + int + gear + elemental damage, and is considered equal for both.

Edit: changed frost cloud and hail

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#47

Too complicated and there are some wrongs in your calculations @@.

-Frost Cloud: 3hits/s
-Hail: ~1-4 hits/s.

Also, no one use Prominence or Electrocute at boss anyway. And you should consider the cast time too, its not easy to full cast Hail + Meteor when soloing without surespell.

But yeah, i agree Pyro 2 - ele 3 is better in solo boss at current stage since pyro skills are instant cast and easier to lure them to the skills range, but when ranks 7+ come wiz 3 will triump over with more skills to come.

About world boss, i think Wiz 3 is better cuz you can’t use fireball in there, Flame Ground has slow ticks and they hardly stay at the same spot over 10s.

#48

eh, taking in all the fuzzy variables makes things harder to guesstimate. I basically assumed we’re fighting a giant statue that never attacks, and doesn’t fly. Pyro will absolutely have issues if the boss moves around or people are hitting fireballs, but so will all the ele skills.

If tiers 7-max add more than ~600 hits total (or some massive amount of skill damage) to the combo, wiz 3 will outrun pyro 2 on our immobile boss. If we remove prominence and Electrocute, that number rises to ~650.

After seeing warlock and featherfoot, I get the feeling that wiz-3 ele-3s that want to boss will be adding pyro anyway.

#49

Only hail though, Frost Cloud has only 10s duration thus easier to get full 30 hits on boss :laughing:

I don’t think so, ranks 7 skills has much more higher base dmg (2,5k - 3k at level 15) and i believe they’ll get much better at higher levels :smiley:. All the vids we saw so far are level 1 skills only and no attributes.

#50

Meteor is probably 4 * (matk + 2980), I can’t imagine my meteor to reach 20k if this is not the formula.

We usually don’t use electrocute and prominence in boss fight, so yeah, that makes the difference bigger. But this is a good calculation to show that Pyro 2 Ele 3 will be dealing more damage at Rank 6.

From the video, it seems that Warlock is a good multi hit class though. I would imagine that Wiz 3 will be equal, if not better at that point.

#51

Thanks a lot for the hard work!

If we remove the fireball damage or leave just, say 1 hit from every fireball, who will win? I’m not good at math at all , sorry ;(

About warlock - the dark pillar is on a huge 2 min cd. The other skills in c1 are ‘spirits’ if I’m not mistaken, and these spirits may not be affected by quick cast (but we do not know it now) which will probably make pyro2 win again.

I’m really torn apart in making my build, going wiz3 in kOBT now, but I keep doubting if it’s really worth it.

#52

Warlock:

I don’t know enough about the class to quess, I figured the only skill it has for bossing would be the Pole of Agony- a clone of one of the lesser skills in the pyro tree. looks to last something like 6+1 per level seconds?
Any idea what kind of damage the soul orbs of Invocation will do? It looks like 1/ thing killed, which is… not a bossing skill, even if it works on traps.
And Dark Theurge pretty clearly does 5 hits.

I’d take Necromancer over Warlock, I think.

@elfochka
If fireball did one hit per cast, you’d be close to equal. It’d drop pyro2ele3 down to ~1590 matk +615000

1 Like
#53

You can check more details here: http://tos.nexon.com/gameinfo/jobview.aspx?classid=2015
Pole of agony: 8(+1) seconds per level and 13s after effect (with 폴 오브 아고니: 지속시간 attribute). At level 15 it’ll be 22s + 13s dutation.

We don’t know yet, could be more hits at higher levels.

Invocation also has a pretty nice attribute: 인보케이션: 전달
Allies in close proximity to ‘evil spirits’ produced by [Invocation] have their Dark Attack increased by 5% per attribute level (15% max). This attribute’s effect is doubled (30% max) for the caster.
And we still don’t know warlock C2,3 skills yet.

I don’t think Necro is worth it since raise dead was moved to C2 recently.

hmm, i don’t think so, they have no AI like other summons, they are more like an object like fireball.

#54

If the game goes up to rank 10+ (there are still ~30 classes still not revealed yet). No doubt Wiz 3 will be the one with highest dmg output at lategame. I know there are some guys with endgame mentality who goes Wiz 3 - Thauma 3 just to make everything at late game hit stronger :smile:.

#55

I dunno, c1 necro isn’t that bad. Shoggoth Hoop and Cannon are all pretty great skills for boss fighting, not that that’s the goal of a wiz3ele3 build. Plus, the build suddenly gets much better when C8 comes around.

Warlock is much more in line with the ‘King of AoE’ shtick you have going on. Invocation has the added benefit of being a buff on all the rest of your skills.

#56

Yeah, you can only judge a class if you know their C2,3 skills. But Warlock clearly is a class built for Aoe-multihits purpose which sync well with quickcast and ele.

#57

It feels like another version o Frost Cloud to me, except with much longer CD.

#58

How do you think Wiz C3 build dps will compare to an Int Cleric. I know 50% is a lot but Cleric probably has some of the strongest scaling ability like Zaibas, Cure,Out of Body, Carnivory and the recently added Incinerate. Their Cd is shorter too :\

#59

Cleric3-Krivis2-Druid1

Cure:
38 hits, matk+31, every 27 seconds
So 418 * (matk +31)

Heal:
15 squares, twice every 22 seconds
390 * (matk + 147)

Zaibas
14 hits twice every 30
280 * (matk + 261)

Carnivory
30 hits every 30
300 * (matk +1177)

Divine stigma
+43/hit

Zalachi
+24/hit

Deprotect zone
+70+SPR?

(418+390+280+300) * (matk + 43 + 24 + 70 + spr) + rest

1388 * (matk+spr) + 190156 + 12958 + 57330 + 73080 +353100

Int cleric deals 1388 * (matk + spr) + 686624 over 5 minutes Note that spr+70 is the defense reduction, and may not be able to go negative.

Comparable single target damage. Carnivory is a beast. At rank 7 it does virtually all of the cleric’s damage.
Heal isn’t as efficient as I make it out to be here.

Feed me a build that includes Bokor and Sadhu, and the actual damage rates of those skills and I’ll consider doing them.

#60

I think the fomular for Out of Body is: (((((mATK - Gem mATK) * 2) + 70 - mDEF) + Elemental Damage) * 1.5) + (Gem mATK * 1.5) - Thank to @Eanraig. And after the nerf it is happen about 1 per sec. I don’t know how to add it in the calculation thou since technique you won’t be able to auto in OoB all the time. But I guess cleric is more of a party class since they scale well with Linker.

I think a good scaling build is Cleric C2 Krivis C2 Sadhu C1 Druid C 1-2

PS: Sorry for evading the Wiz topic but i am a sucker for min-maxing xD