Well, if you’re intending to go more SPR heavy I think getting Krivis over Diev is a viable option. Getting mobs to negative Crit Resist value is really good, Zalcai increases general P. atk damage by alot if you mamage to pull it off.
For a Supportive point of view, you’re getting a great P. Dmg buff at the cost of a Control CDR buff that’s a bit less flexible.
I’m going to hit the paper and plan out a build and post my idea and will reply here once I’m finished. This is going to be it for me. I want to stop rerolling and get up to end game. I really appreciate all of your feedback though it’s been awesome.
How does Conviction work? Does it put a debuff on your enemy that makes them take more elemental damage? If so, how long is the debuff and does it work on boss monsters? Lastly, 400 damage may not sound awesome by itself, but does it also boost the elemental damage that the rest of the party does to the monster?
I don’t remember exactly how long the debuff lasted but it was 16~20 seconds (I can check the exact value for you later). Yeah.
Works on boss monsters just fine.
It’s 400 extra damage only if you have elemental damage equipment on all four elements (poison, lightning, ice, fire), earth doesn’t count, I’ve tested it. It may not sound like a lot but remember it’s per hit. So it works almost like 2x stronger blessing if you have all the elements gear and the debuff is active.
The debuff works exactly the same for the rest of the party. If they have the 4 diff elements property equipment, they will deal +400 damage per hit on any attack/skill. If they use a magic skill like ice spike, it will count towards ice elemental damage (so they don’t need +ice damage gear).
The damage bonus will improve to 480 if you use divine might before Conviction.
Like I said, Conviction isn’t AWESOME, but it’s okay. The really annoying thing is the long cooldown (imo should be 9 sec like Smite).
Thanks for the quick reply!
I realize that it takes a lot of setup to expect most people in your party to have +poison/lightning/fire/ice property attack. But I was thinking of making a support paladin which leaves a lot of free skill points, so I might as well pick up Conviction.
Conviction works better for your own Smite than for your party members.
It goes like this:
Conviction -> 2x Smite -> Wait 9 sec cooldown on Smite -> Conviction -> 2x Smite -> wait Conviction cooldown -> repeat
Most weak mobs will die with the 2x Smite, but the mobs with 60k+ hp surely won’t. Then it gets a bit annoying to have to wait on the cooldowns all the time (that’s why you need other skills to fill in those gaps).
Conviction will make your Smite hit three times, with the debuff, it will be +400 damage per hit (+480 with divine might). If the mob is weak to smite, it will be +200% damage on the first hit. If the mob is weak to bludgeon type attack (plate armor) it will deal +50% damage on the first hit.
At level 190 my INT Paladin (with proper elemental gear) was hitting in average (with conviction lv 5 + smite lv 15):
3k in first hit, 1.2k in second, 1.2k in third.
Per smite, so multiply by two for both Smite charges. It’s not AWESOME damage (my SPR chaplain hits 2/3 that in each basic attack), but it’s something to consider…
Also one more thing: Conviction does two hits per charge.
forgive me if my post is hard to follow; on mobile and wont bother with formatting and grammar
i currently play a lvl 239 c2>diev>paladin1>monk1>paladin 3 that i found on the FAQ and went str/dex instead and its actually very very good. monk 1 gives you armor break, strong bleed, and an amazing filler in double punch so youre not sitting around throwing autos while waiting on cooldowns. with conviction and +ele dmg gear, double punch does respectable dmg especially when it crits.
if u continue the str path i wouldnt go pardoner. Plague Doctor is decent even without str, but if u don’t like it…then thats fine. i highly recommend monk. in fact, there’s a korean build just the one i follow posted in this section but he takes monk last. i see you have krivis instead of dievdirbys and you will miss out on carve attack and the cdr statue, but have zalciai which can help u crit more/hit harder on crits so its not a completely bad thing…
definitely want smite even in a support build, imo. at the end of the day, build what you will enjoy as long as it isnt complete garbage. even if you pick up the most optimal paladin build, it’ll eventually either be obsolete or youll be discriminated against anyway since most ppl think paladin is a useless class anyway. i think my build is successful. even though i got tons of kicks from people as soon as they hovered my class icon and saw the build, the parties that did have me were astounded by my damage and were fine with my supporting/healing capabilities. i luckily found a good guild that isnt full of children who circlejerk about monk/paladin and gave me a chance and i enjoy playing my build even more now. there’s always going to be people who discriminate at higher levels, but it’s easy to find and make friends that will not.
when i get home i can make a concise post on my build if you are interested.
I’m currently using Visual Studios to write some code to help automatically calculate math based on attributes and stats and how they will affect the skills. I’m going to use the formulas for skill damage and stuff to write the calculations.
So I’m not gonna show the full code cuz well that’s not the point of this (unless you want to see it lol) but basically I want to be able to dynamically visualize the number changes going on here. Never thought I’d be writing computer code to simplify my planning of a character build…
http://puu.sh/ppFip/7ccf71e594.png
NOTE This accounts for 10 skill points invested in heal—
Basically the difference between 8 int and 500 int is 959.40 healed per circle and 984 dmg dealt per circle. I’m using the formulas given to me from reading ToSBase though so I can only work with what people have said.
I don’t know if 959.40 heal difference is game breaking end game or not, however when people have 50k+ HP. My code is accounting for 25,000 hp. However the damage dealt by the heal circles seems crappy as hell. Even if you account for a 100% bonus from the enemy being weak against HOLY damage with 500 int it ends up being 5,062.3 per circle. If an enemy has 60k hp it still takes 11 circles to finish ONE enemy off. But I haven’t been in end game to experience how big of a deal that really is.
I setup this sample math in Linqpad so I can have a rapid testing ground. I like ToSBase but I wish it let you see the stat and attribute differences so that’s why I’m doing this.
I’m playing a SPR CON Pally here. With Krivis 1.
Restoration is good. It has a hidden combo with Heal, which increases it’s heal value.
Resist Element is okay.
Turn Undead might not seem that good at first, but when u say, in a dungeon, where mob hp is scaled up high, you can easily clear out few mobs in 1 shot.
This actually bring u insane value if u think about it: You basically have a burst skill that deal higher damage the higher hp the mobs have (50k? 60k? 100k? Plus majority of the mobs in ToS are demon or mutant). Compare this to other support classes. It has 2 overheat and a 70s cd.
Sure it is not a 100% surefire skill, but then you would have only invested 1 or 2 (for it’s attribute) skill point in it. Pretty worth it imo.
EDIT: Heal damage is kinda irrelevant outside of soloing because as a support you don’t want enemies to take away your heal tiles from from your allies and you. The INT calculation in terms of damage that you would want to look at is Cure at the Cleric rank. Spoiler, it has double INT scaling and multihits.
If you are STR build I would actually suggest Diev 1 instead of Krivis 1. Krivis 1 is only good if you have SPR to scale with Zalciai imo. BUT, it’s not that bad I think, unless you are perfectionist. You will still have Daino, Aukuras (usefulness still debatable tho, but potential play with Animus necklace).
Btw my Smite is/will be maxed even tho I have no STR. The base damage is really high.
Even though I’ve setup math calculations and stuff using computer code for easy calculations based on stats and levels… I’m still struggling on what I want to do.
I think the problem with the class is that there’s too many routes to take and they all result in you falling short of being “good” at anything. I’m like these skills are great but those skills are great too. If I take these skills I won’t have those skills, if I take those skills I won’t have these skills. It feels like no matter what choices I make I’m going to be lacking.
And stats… they further force you to “specialize” in one particular area or else you’ll be lackluster.
I guess I’m going to play my Pyromancer for awhile until I can come to a decision. Someday Paladin will be mine… I just don’t want to reroll at 200+ when I can reroll at 80 instead.
Well you’re skipping a lot of things there.
Almost everything in this game scales flat (CON gives flat hp, INT gives flat damage, etc) so it’s not like there’s something better to get.
It’s really hard to reach 50k hp, I’d say a full CON peltasta tanker would have ~40k ish. Normal builds have ranging from 10k to 20k in endgame.
The damage dealt by Heal skill scales twice with INT. That’s because the ATK the skill has gets a bonus depending your INT stat and the fact Heal is already a magical skill, thus, gets bonus damage from your MATK as well. Since INT increase MATK, you get 2 points of damage per 1 point of INT.
STR and INT get 10% bonus per rank to try to compensate for the flat scaling, but I’m sure you’re aware of that.
Let’s also not forget the damage attributes, which make a huge difference endgame. If you max out the Heal damage attribute, that’s 100% more damage which means 1 INT = 4 damage.
Against a holy weakness mob, you double that value.
Mobs physical and magical defense is also something important to consider. Dealing 1400 damage in one skill or 700 damage in two skills is not the same because their defense will get calculated twice. So even if you say 6 skills with a INT-less theorically deals same damage as 3 skills in a full INT build, in practice it won’t be the same damage. Let’s not forget that most skills also have cooldowns.
So no, in short, there is actually a considerable difference between 0 INT and 500 INT. Some people prefer to make CON wizards, of course you’ll have more HP and survivability, but CON also gives flat HP bonus and not increase by a % so you’re not really gaining that much over INT.
If you do want to give up on your damage to get more CON and survive longer, sure, go for it. But that will obviously make you a lot weaker to level up solo. So be prepared to kill stuff a lot slower than normal.
Thank you for the additional information. I was unaware of the hidden numbers used for calculation.
I’ll continue my Wizard for now. I think my Paladin can be salvaged but probably if they release a stat reset. My Wizard can burst solo everything at remarkable speeds so for the sake of my sanity I’m going to continue the Wizard so I can finally see more of the game.
Continuing my Paladin might result in a reroll at higher levels leading to considerable time loss. Eventually I’ll feel like rerolling the Paladin but until I really know what I want to do I’ll have to hold off.
Have a cute chibi Flandre for all the help you gave me:
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Yeah just hold off playing paladin for now if u are still unsure. Right now paladin is messy. It has many issues and gets largely replaced by Pardoner (Barrier scrolls). I think almost only paladin enthusiasts play it atm.
if you want to be dps go full dps and if you want to support. just dont go full support.
would you suggest to go monk first or paladin in your build?
I haven’t tried the build myself yet. But the KR person he/she mentioned said that until rank 6 (going Paladin first), Smite tended to kill everything by itself… and if you go Pally first you get Conviction earlier. Monk 1 w/o Conviction doesn’t seem to be very good, from what I read.
I highly recommend reading the whole post by the KR person, even though the approach is different. It’s very informative. @ginoang_linx
actualy earth give more damage too. But yeah its just a okay skill. better play INT path then STR pally. And cleric circle 2 is a must for my opinion lol
You’re right. In my previous testing I used cafrisun set to test the earth damage but I forgot that the set doesn’t really add earth element to your first hit.
Uploaded a video confirming earth element works for conviction:
they should fix the tooltips. if we highlight the debuff icon, it will say it reduce earth too lol
Fix the tooltips by also telling you what stat affects which skill… I borked my paladin pretty badly for this reason.