Tree of Savior Forum

Finally unlocked Paladin and excited about it and I want some advice

Class and Rank Cleric
#53

Is it really impossible to do something like earth tower with a paladin? Or is it just because it’s better to buy scrolls and grab someone else?

I played this game because:

http://puu.sh/pr3sW/adc58c0b96.png

Plus everyone on the damn forums kept saying “There’s no META” blah blah. Yeah okay.

I think I will just try to make friends and friends won’t discriminate.

Want to know what else is funny? I’m also leveling a wizard with plans on Wizard 1, Pyro 2, Cryo 3 and I still don’t know the 7th yet lol. I just think it’s a fun idea to go fire and ice…

I just enjoy going against META I guess… but from the sound of things it looks like you either go META or you throw away your right to enjoy the game with other people…

#54

I’ve been eyeing a pyro3, cryo3 build for the [fireball] [snow rolling] combo on a pure CON wiz. The dream died when [sub zero shield] got nerfed to affect the one area of the game that is already so destroyed by CC (melee). That horse has been dead for so long it has no body left to beat (some bokor has probably already raised it as a zombie).

On topic
I’ve actually had a cleric on hold because it was meant to be a healdin (cleric 3 + [restoration aura]).

#55

That’s the idea, yeah, but I have no idea either on the higher levels. It could be fine if you specifically joined an active, non-elitist guild?.. it’s what I plan on doing when I try monk pally, but I don’t have experience on the matter.

But yeah IMC’s game design sucks. I’m still hopeful of the monk1 build making pally worthwhile, but support-wise all you really have is Resist Elements and Conviction… both are good, but… not something you’d want to spend 3 circles on if it were only for support. Even TU is scrollable for some reason. Smite helps with leveling even in an INT build and isn’t bad for dps, but by itself it’s mediocre.

At least most Priests 3 still have to get Krivis 1 anyway because otherwise, everyone in the party would need to use a Daino scroll (viable in GvG, but not in leveling). Not the case for Paladin.

ET isn’t really impossible at all with a pally from what I gather, you should be able to go with good friends or a specific guild. It’s more that… scrolls replace your support function there nearly entirely.

The freedom of choice part was well-designed imo. What wasn’t is the class balance… and their patching capabilities seem to be pretty mediocre overall, they seem severely understaffed.

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#56

pardoner sucks sigh. this all because of pardoner. should make the scroll are lesser or half of the real skill or make it expensive

pardoner suckss

#57

Yeah they didn’t think that one through. I honestly don’t know how they didn’t foresee this while they were developing the game years ago. Certain things, during the design of the game, should make you say, “No wait… that would make entire branches of the cleric tree useless. Bad idea.”

I guess some people just don’t have very good foresight. Foresight is one of my strong points, though it really helps me as a programmer to be able to see and visualize how things are going to work before actual testing begins…

#58

In case you haven’t seen the following topic, it might be a nice reference (linking it because I just found it earlier today and it’s awesome):

The INT Pally-PD build is mentioned there, maybe that’s where you took it from in the first place. It seems you don’t really need INT for PD seeing as Incinerate’s base damage is high by itself, but it works and is good anyway. And it seems (don’t quote me on this) Conviction counts as more than one debuff at once due to it debuffing all non-light/dark element resistances?..

I’m sleepy so don’t mind me if I turn out to be horribly wrong, but even if I’m wrong Conviction has good synergy with Incinerate anyway, and I’m pretty sure some of the Diev skills count as debuffs too.

And yes, it’s been a few years since I’ve last seen such bad game development and management. On such a good game, too…

#59

Woah, i didnt think so many paladins existed q.q. I’m Derkein Dragonfang an STR-Paladin lvl230+ as main; and have been playing since launch.

To answer your questions,

I read that Restoration sucks cuz it only works outside of combat, people just potion up and chug along, no one stands around to regen right?

  • You don’t take restoration for regen, we take it to increase our heal by around x1.5. Although the sp regen is nice.

I also heard Resist Elements isn’t that great? Yet people keep talking about magic damage enemies hurting a lot so it can’t be that bad right? I’m thinking I should max this to help the defense of the party.

  • Most people don’t even know what resist-elements is, let alone what it actually does. At 15lvl it provides around 120+elemental resistance and a 20% chance of nullifying any elemental attacks. ; It is only useful if you max the skill (for nullification), else its not worth it.

Turn Undead is also pointless? Doesn’t look too good to me.

  • Turn undead deserves at least 2 points, this is to get attribute. It’s amazing in dungeons in which the majority of the mobs insta-dies by this skill. Outside of dungeons, it is not used.

Conversion can convert enemies to your side, sounds interesting but is it really worth it?

  • Don’t get this, xD… no matter what build you use. The mobs DPS are pitiful compared to our own DPS. and you will never need an HP absorber as you have heal. Also, dungeons may glitch because of this skill.

Barrier seems to be a great spell for PVP… might be annoying pushing back enemies in PVE if you’re trying to AE stuff though right?

  • Barrier doesnt work on PvP, aside from increasing your mdef.

Conviction seems like a great debuff to help the party’s magic users roast an enemy so this is certainly worth maxing.

  • To the contrary, its actually archers that benefit most from this due to their insane attack speed. +480 elem dmg each hit. Yes it’s great =)

~~ Dragonfang [Paladin, Klaipeda]

#60

http://puu.sh/px0OP/236e173464.jpg

So it took 3 days of a lot of playing but I’m back.

http://puu.sh/px1pD/537312d389.jpg

You can ignore the SPR count I’m getting extra from gear I’m wearing.

I’ve been doing some thinking though. Paladins have always been “in the middle” when it comes to role in games. They are “kinda” tanks. Patch healers, or “kinda” healers if invested in that route specifically, “kinda” DPS.

But they’ve never been strong at anything, yet they can do a bunch of things to compliment a party’s weakness.

I thought about removing 200 points from my final INT count to put 100 in str and 100 in dex or 200 in dex to help out smite in the long run and put 100 in con and go plate armor.

I think that throwing stat points in only 1-2 stats is really anti-paladin. I also feel going full int to support 1 magic skill that the plague doctor has is anti-paladin. However the support skills for debuff removal is quite nice for plague doctor to add to my support pool.

Thoughts? I feel like this game scales so poorly that in order to keep up at all you need to ‘specialize’ in a stat though… it’s kinda depressing.

http://puu.sh/px1y7/d95401bfd3.jpg

http://puu.sh/px1yQ/a0ac6e4557.jpg

#61

The tos paladin in particular is pretty bad at anything that isn’t healing. You have 3 “free” circles for damage, but what are your choices really?

Krivis 2 or 3 for 1 damage skill
Deivdirby 2 or 3 for 2 damage skills (with pretty awesome utilities so it’s ok)
Druid 1 + some mix of the previous 2

Here me out on this. I dunno why but all roads I go theory crafting brings me back to [fade] 10 + [laima]. If you have resigned yourself to doing ■■■■ crappy ■■■■ damage you could go cleric 3 deiv for ~93% fade uptime (and magic circle immunity that comes with it). And it’s not like that’s all you get for cleric 3. There’s [heal] 16 [cure] 16 (pretty potent source of damage for an INT build.

#62

To crit or evade fairly you need to keep getting DEX as your base levels go up. If you choose to stop getting DEX at some point, your crit/evasion will fade off past that point.

I wouldn’t recommend a 100 DEX build for PvM for any physical type character unless you have some backup plan to help your crit (i.e. finestra, monstrance) which isn’t your case. In PvM, that amount of DEX will only be useful for increasing your accuracy (which doesn’t need to be very high for PvM).

Not just that but, your crit chance is already low now because you aren’t level 1 anymore and already spent points into INT. You’ll have to spend at least some levels (i’d guess 50 base levels) focusing on DEX before you even start to see crits popping up around.

That being said, I’m not sure how I feel towards a build that divides stats between DEX/STR and INT… Your best (and only) magic damaging skills are Cure and Heal, and both of them have a really weak base damage but very good INT scaling. I suppose you’re aiming for the Paladin 3 path too, which leaves you with little to none other magic skills options (you’ll only get more magic dmg skills at rank 7).

Getting INT for Heal and Cure for damage would be okay, but I see here you didn’t max your Cure skill and yet you are basically an INT build up to now. I guess that’s because you wanted to be more supportish with a higher level safety zone…

Well, if I were you, I’d reset skills at some point and max that Cure. If I had my mind really set on going hybrid, I would go for the 200 DEX option without any STR. I would also consider taking Diev 2 at Rank 7 instead of PD or Kabbalist (but I’m not quite sure that would be worth it). World Tree is maybe the best support skill in the game (for PvM), though yours would be a bit gimped for not going Diev3.

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#63

It’s getting kinda annoying not having a clear idea on what to do with this character and sorta turning me away from it completely. I’ve felt less inclined to even want to bother anymore and started working on other characters.

I feel like there’s too many skills that people want me to have end game and I’m not able to have it all. So that is leading to this ultimate feeling of defeat that I’d rather not deal with anymore so I’ll revisit paladin some day… when IMC decides what they even want paladins to be and people have a better idea on what paladins should be.

Between wizards, clerics and swordsman I’ve rerolled my characters 15 times (including switching servers and starting over). I’m not really someone who has the patience to reroll, endlessly redoing the same content just to theory craft and try ideas.

So with that said paladin is parked until this class is straightened out.

#64

Perhaps the way you described Paladin being “middle” of everythng (except healing) is the reason why I went SPR CON, ie, choosing not to scale for any DPS.

You know what, I like it fairly well.

CON means that you will be relevant. Just like many support focused class, CON is the main stat.

Now here comes the vague part. You can go full CON if you like, but I like to invest in more than 1 stat for Paladin.

Why I choose SPR? Because it is the only stat other than CON that doesn’t scale for DPS.

Then here comes the Rank 3 class choices (Rank 3 because Cleric 2 is almost a must. You heal tiles scale with Restoration lvl1 so well it is almost a waste of biggest healing potential ever).

You have: Krivis and Diev.

I picked Krivis. Why? Because it has skill that scales with SPR, which is Zalciai, while Diev has non.

Zalciai reduces crit resistance of enemies, and it can go negative value, which means free crit rates. By logic it means reaching critical chance cap.

Zalciai has dual, synchronising functionality. It adds critical attacks.

Both scale on SPR. I have high SPR. Huge damage boost for all physical DPS classes and builds.

“Oh you are full DEX? Here, have some crit attack.”
“Oh you are full STR? Here, have some crit rates.”
“Oh I don’t have both? Here, have both crit attack and crit rates. There you go, my Smite now crits with no investment in DEX.”

Also you know what? Zalciai’s buff and debuff durations are so long that you can cast another Zalciai before they ends. Zalciai’s CD isn’t long either.

Love it.

Now to Paladin. My view is: Don’t try to force Paladin into a DPS role. Play it like what it wants to be, a support with circumstantial DPS.

You main role will be supporting with some of the finest Heal tiles, buff and debuff with Zalciai, get some Elemental Resistance and immunity, throw down some Conviction debuffs, Smite some demons, Turn some Undead, Barrier some mobs, and you will have an enjoyable time. At least for me I am having fun.

Now some extras:

With Cleric 2, I have Cure 10. This plus Zaibas at 4 or 5, you get yourself few multi hits that can capitalize on gears such as Arde Dagger. Zalciai’s attribute that grants Magic Amplification also helps. Sure, it ain’t full INT multi hits, but hey, at least you can get something. Don’t forget Divine Might. Also don’t forget Daino.

There’s also the possibility of good plays with Aukuras + Animus for Matk lovers.

As a “at your own discretion” kind of thing, I’m not at the 260 to 280 range, yet. But my high levels and more experienced guildmate doesn’t hate it, so that’s a good thing. Most reasoning here are done with logical deduction. If you are looking for something that is very, very future proof, you shouldn’t be looking at Paladin at the moment.

Edit: Btw, I think DEX could be a “trap”. Actually, maybe any DPS stats is a “trap”. This, of course, depends on future Rank and changes.

Why I don’t like DEX:

  1. Paladin is not a DPS class.
  2. You have to go high DEX. Means low CON. Means low PVP and even PVE survivability. You can’t dodge Magic dumb dumb.
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#65

if you want to go dex you need priest 1 for monstrance

#66

does restoration increase healing to aukuras or healing factor?

#67

Shhh!!! Don’t tell them how I play my Paladin! :persevere:
Let them keep thinking that Dps is the only way.

Eventually they will lose interest and we will be the only paladins left :imp:

#68

Can’t see any of your images… but yeah, as Shadow pointed out, splitting points to DEX when you don’t have anything to help your crit rate is a pretty bad idea, unless you want the accuracy for pvp. Splitting them to STR is also not really good, considering the main skill you have for scaling with it is Smite (I assume you linked to your class picks in the images, but over here they appear as broken), and Smite scales poorly with STR unless it’s a mainly STR build.

Low INT builds do work though… as pointed out in the Paladin thread, 80’s enough for it to be useful, more’s okay but it isn’t strictly necessary. Thing is, there aren’t many other places to invest, unless you want SPR - which does work if you go Krivis1, as Clarityrence pointed out, or Pardoner at some point.

So you can split SPR/INT/CON, be viable, and still be “in the paladin spirit”. That might just be what you were looking for.


The Resist Elements buff from KR (6/16 patch) is also probably going to come over here eventually, Paladin3 will be a much better support if/when it comes... and either way it's general consensus that Pally's really not very strong atm, so it's one of those classes that only tends to get better in the future.
#69

Unfortunately, I don’t have either of those skills aside from restoration. As such, I do not know the answer to your question. =(

#70

@furkingbustar There is detailed Restoration info on the Paladin compendium thread.

It affects Aukuras addictively (meaning you’d have to either level Restoration or its attribute for it to be good). Doesn’t affect Healing Factor afaik.

#71

I went Paladin in the CBT. I was disappointed but only made it to C1

I hear it gets better when you get to C2, C3. which i believe because i was disappointed with Priest C1 but i loved Priest C2

#72

@Flanflan, welcome to being a paladin :3 My route is similar though but I took C2>Diev3>Paladin1>Kabbalist instead of C2>Diev1>Paladin3>PD.

If you are building an INT based paladin, it will be really great if you invest more in Cleric’s cure, it actually deals quite a fair bit of damage.

Personally I would suggest dropping Plague Doctor and go for Dievdirby2 instead. Dievdirby2 brings in Carve Owl which is really good damage for INT builds, more carve attack levels and most importantly, the aoe silence carve World Tree. World Tree at level 5 is already good enough for most pve stuff. Feel that with this it will round out your build more than what a PD offers.