I believe that such a metric exists, but I’m not sure if the client stores such information. I did encounter a visual glitch a few days ago which randomly displays the hitboxes of NPCs, monsters, and skills…but I haven’t been able to consistently replicate it.
If the skill cannot mechanically function without an animation, then reducing its duration to 0.5s would be a significant improvement. Perhaps Swordsmen with more PvP experience can chime in on this issue.
My biggest issue would be with any changes that involve movement of skills to different circles.
Also I feel concentrate/gungho is fine as is, combined would be awesome. However the suggestion of buffing those skills, as you suggest make sword c3 mandatory. Which is the problem with scaling skills in general. The better they scale the more “Mandatory,” they are. Then classes become irrelevant and specific skills are what defines the class.
Many of these suggestions will lead to the same issue Wizard has, wiz3ele3 being almost the only way to go and other builds not being able to compete. Right now swords can compete pretty fairly with one another in both DPS and TANK roles. The issue is sword vs other classes. These suggestions seem focused on balancing throughout sword which is not the problem.
To be clear if all 2hand swords had damage doubled and a secondary element atk then Dopple would be on par with main Archer/Wiz builds. Currently the best weapons are spears both in stats and synergy but they still suck.
This also plays into how str is so important to Sword but the benefits of going str suck. Even if you ignore gear and just focus on stat changes you can fix swordman easy. Make Con give an atk bonus and Str a very large attack bonus. Sure Archers will get a buff but Swords would get more of a buff do to the bonus, heck increase the sword bonus so every 100point of str invested adds 100 bonus str.
These mechanics are in the game and would take a few minutes to complete. Going deeply into every suggested change is not something I will do because I do not see the overall path as an efficient or viable one.
Since MMOs are not new and ToS is not in a vacuum I will give examples of how a single item can make or break a class/Job.
FFXI Kraken club for Drk = Top Dps
Vanilla wow Earthbiter +Flurry axe on shamman
Many more such instances. The itemization of sword gear is terrible. Heck look at clerics with toy hammer n arde. Gear itemization is much easier to implement and can easily limited to specific circles/build simply via the already in place mechanics. So nake better 2hand sword will not do much for Archers/Wiz/ Goons but will surely buff sword builds using 2 handers, etc.
I believe in tweaking skills little by little rather giving them a huge overhaul unless they’re completely broken. I think changing the skill to be 0 CD first would be a start. Afterall, it’s on a Peltasta c2 while Spearthrow is on Hoplite c3.
I think that’s the point though. When you go with an offhand weapon, you cannot block. It doesn’t really make much sense to be able to block with a dagger or pistol.
Off-hand weapons such as the Arde Dagger already makes most 1H swords deal more damage than 2H swords. Giving them block as well… well, what’s the point of wielding a 2H sword other than switching to it to use for skills?
I think it’s fine where it’s at. Maybe giving the skill a bigger hitbox or AoE attack ratio would be better but this skill in itself already deals quite a bit of damage. I would leave it as it is.
There really is no point in investing into the skill. As a Barbarian, you have too many skills to invest into and it doesn’t help that you need to invest 15 skill points into it to make it somewhat useful. It’s like why would you invest more than 1 point into Cure other than increasing the damage a slight bit?
The bleeding is there so Barbarian could at least deal a tad bit more DPS. Embowel has a pretty decent AoE attack ratio and hits multiple mobs already. This also helps other players that rely on bleed debuffs to deal double damage.
Pouncing should probably be moved down to 40 sec cooldown. It literally works exactly like Cataphracts Rush.
I wouldn’t mind if Piercing had 1 overheat or if the bleed chance was higher.
I’m not gonna suggest nerfing Finestra because that would piss everyone off. I’d rather focus on buffing sword/shield type characters first.
I realize that there are many 1 point wonder skills but that’s how they designed the the game to be. Most classes have 1 point wonder skills and you would have to overhaul not just swordsman, but literally every class in the game if you don’t want those kinds of skills.
Targe Smash deals double damage vs frozen and petrified targets. You would be giving Rodelero the highest dps in the game when paired up with a cryomancer. Let’s also not forget about High Kick which further increases your damage. The class is supposed to focus on tanking, disabling and debuffing not dps.
It’s like saying Blessing doesn’t do much because it only adds in +170 damage. But when you multiply that by 5 party members it’s +850 add damage.
+50~100 P.ATK from Squire * 5 party members… let alone that it takes 0 buff slots making this skill have no downsides. The only problem is that you need Lv15 Weapon Maintenance to start making it somewhat noticeable.
I think Armor Maintenance giving +10 defense at level 1 would be a start. Max level would give +25 defense.
Bash has a 6 second cooldown. Let’s not forget that Punish has an AoE attack ratio higher than Cartar Stroke. Also, this skill doesn’t need any weapon requirement. You’d be able to spam Punish multiple times on downed mobs and repeat that every 6 seconds. This further makes swordsman classes a bit useless because what’s the point in using swords when spears can do all of this + having finestra active at all times?
I feel the same as this guy:
We need to buff sword/shield characters before anything else. The problem is that Spearsman do everything Swordsman can but better.
I’ll just like to say I’d like to see Corsair’s Jolly Roger buffs fixed from sticking on the screen. Your entire buff bar ends up being taken by finished pillaging icons. @_@
(Yeah i suck at using this quoting thing)
You’re missing an important detail about Skyliner, it’s damage output is reliant on Crosscut’s ability to inflict Bleeding. I often find myself ignoring Skyliner because either Crosscut is on cooldown or the Bleeding just doesn’t work, i don’t know, Crosscut’s bleeding feels super wonky to me compared to Broadhead Arrow’s bleeding.(Maybe something to do with my swords being High Dex and my Fletcher being High Str?).
Basically my point is, if Crosscut’s Bleeding is inconsistent, or if the enemy resists the bleeding, Skyliner is going to be ignored and you’re going to wait 'till you can use Crosscut again.
My suggestion:
Skyliner
Problem: Too reliant on Crosscut to deal sufficient damage output.
Proposed change:
Effect: Make Skyliner inflict additional damage on enemies afflicted with any status effect(Bleeding, Poison, Armor Break, Shock, Confusion,…).
Drawback: Reduces the additional damage from 100% -> 80%*.
Overheat: 4 charges.
Justification: Makes Skyliner more live and Highlander’s other skills that affect status effect(Skull Swing, Crown) more viable. You don’t have to play around Crosscut’s cooldown anymore.
Edit: Good job Cathexis, keep it up, proud of you.
I know. I have the skill and I use it.
That literally applies to almost every skill in the game tho. There are multiple skills in this game that does not work on certain mobs. Cleave’s damage entirely depends on Helm Choppers stun, but you can’t stun bosses. So what are you trying to argue here? This is part of the game and why certain classes do better vs certain mobs.
But yeah let’s ignore that this guy was hitting 30k per skyliner.
With 3 overheats he’s dealing nearly 100k of damage in just 15 seconds.
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
I need some context for that picture please. Providing a picture without context proves nothing.
For example, my Archer C3 could deal that much damage with Multishot if i were using a 2-H Bow against a Flying-type mob at lvl 150 with shitty equipment.
Finestra is way to strong already, when compared to other swordsman skills. If hoplite were given % scaling with their massive strength then no one would play anything other than hoplite. Maybe give it % increase to crit rating instead of flat crit rating so that a bit of investment in dex would be necessary.
That is my point entirely. Why do you insist on buffing a skill that does not need to be buffed? I don’t get it. It’s clearly not broken and it’s clearly not underpowered.
Because the damage is inconsistent, it’s purely reliant on Crosscut’s bleeding. Did you even read my post?
Anyway, this isn’t the point of this topic. We should be discussing whether my change is appropriate or not, what’s your opinion on making Skyliner’s additional damage effect not exclusive to Bleeding status?
IMO, I think Zornhau should inflict a debuff that increases slash type skills. Crown already inflicts shock so I dunno why Zornhau inflicts shock. This would overall boost most of swordsman skill tree, including skyliner if you didn’t read my original post.
I just dunno if or when we are ever going to get kToS changes or if they plan on even keeping the game the same.
It does.
That will be interesting to read.
That is fair, I am going to include it as a second possible option.
I think this would only be good if IMC confirms that they want the Swordsman tree to follow the “tank” role at all stages.
This will be able to tell people that they should expect to “tank” by picking this tree, even if just a little bit. At least I think it is better to let everyone that this is the intended purpose they have for this game.
I think it would be fine if it remains like on kTOS.
I would like a way for Swordsman to break at least once from hard CC, but that cannot be used that frequently, but if this falls under the unpopular opinion then I think that leaving it as it is on kTOS is fine too.
EDIT:
For your change on Deeds of Valor, do you mean:
Level 1: 100% EXP + 10% (from the proposed change) = 110% EXP
Level 10: 100% EXP + 100% (from the proposed change) = 200% EXP
or
Level 1: 10% EXP and 10% double drop chance
Level 10: 100% EXP and 100% double drop chance
That would be good to see, if it is on the client then perhaps an add-on to enable them could be made.
Those changes are mainly to give more justification to taking the Circle 3 of a class and it also gives more room for making said skills stronger.
Do you think that going into the Circle 3 of those classes is rewarding enough?
Or how would you change it so that they feel rewarding?
New skills perhaps?
I think this is a problem with the game in general and it would be more appropriate to have this with everyone involved in the game rather than Swordsman.
My changes more than trying to balance Swordsman against it’s own classes or other classes, are looking to just bring more life or even “fun” into the classes, trying to fix their pain points besides how buggy some skills are.
It doesn’t have to be one or another though.
Skills can be improved and so can the equipment on the game and the stats system.
It is more like a Parry. The idea is giving these classes the ability to do so without relying on a shield. The cooldown/duration/SP or other factors can be moved around, but in essence I think it is fair to give these other builds a way to parry.
We could make it (and Block from Peltasta/Rodelero too) be more active instead of just being able to hold it forever. Making a successful Parry or Block could reward the player with increased damage as Cross Guard currently does.
Just an idea. I think it would be fair to have a Parry option for classes that do not use a shield as it is possible to Parry with different combinations of weapons.
That is only at low levels. 2H weapons deal more damage at higher levels.
But I would say that is a problem with the daggers/weapons themselves, rather than the skills. This same problem happens with other classes outside of this tree too.
Those daggers are a little bit too strong at early levels.
In my opinion, every skill that behaves like that is going to eventually be fixed to be more rewarding for leveling it up, through balance patches. Which will come through either the developers or suggestions from players, like this thread I am trying to create.
It wouldn’t though, the damage would still be outclassed by many builds out there.
But I think that it could use an improvement to become a better damage source for Rodelero. Maybe decreasing it’s cooldown in general without going to 0 CD, or limiting the amount of times the bonus damage to Petrified/Frozen enemies can be applied within a few seconds, etc.
But at the moment Rodeleros need a better source of damage than what they currently have.
It doesn’t do much if anything at higher levels. Same as Concentrate.
Priest damage buffs fall off really hard late game and at max level, with the exception of Aspersion and Stone Skin.
Have you seen the damage everyone is dealing at level 250~280?
Can you provide me with a screenshot so that I can include it on the post as an additional suggestion, please?
Would 25 seconds be good?
Oh, this one is good. I like it. I am going to add it to the list.
What do you think would be a fair % to give to Finestra?
I think that at one point Finestra was supposed to be like that, but they changed it to flat value instead.
i meant the 2nd one you listed added to the already existing value of “EXP/DROP x2”. so by the time its lv 10, you’d gett 200% EXP/Drop Chance + 100% which would make it a total of 300% , and maybe even rename the skill “Triple Pay Earn”
I agree with many suggestions and disagree with many too. I’ll not comment each suggestion, but I miss more damage and charges for Doppel C2 skills too.
Please don’t nerf finestra, its pretty much the reason to go for Hoplite. Pierce ends up weak later on, stabbing has the hitbox of a shot needle and if you use it without the pain barrier, odds are that you’ll get knocked down or back and its a half minute wait to use it again. Also, spear toss has a terrible long animation.
That is great!
That…not so much.
It would be amazing if you could expand a little more on this. We need everyone to give their thoughts on this conversation. We need more input from more people to reach a better understanding of each class and how we can improve them.
Can’t really work without knowing which ones you agree or disagree with. Or maybe you have other ideas that could be better overall.
Only you know the experience you have had with the Swordsman tree and I believe that is valuable information that we all can use to craft better feedback for IMC to improve the game.
Even if you only comment on how to improve Doppel C2, that would help a lot already.
If another Corsair doesn’t do it first, I’ll post you a screenshot tomorrow during my daily grind. It’s bothersome but I don’t believe it takes up actual buffs, you just can’t view what you’re actually buffed with from other party members.
As you wish \o
I agree with your suggestions for Doppel and Dragoon. Don’t have much experience with others to comment.
For Highlander, I prefer one more charge for Moulinet (current a better skill than Zornhau and Zucken), Sky Liner with less cooldown (without a penalty) and don’t agree about Cross Guard.
I think would be better if 2H weapons have a defensive stance when you press “C” key.
Instead of CG would be great if we have a new kind of buff or a new aggro skill (not better than Swash Buckling).
Edit: oh, I almost forgot. Vertical Slash needs an urgent increase base damage. As you know, the bonus damage is about +10% for each debuff. Increase this bonus would be not a good idea, but if the skill had a good damage like Seism… Not exactly 1700, but 1200~1500.
And for Corsair, I miss a fix in Jolly Roger increase damage and a new feature: Corsairs would be always the party leader in random (queue) parties. Just for the stacks.
I would remove “Unlock Chest” skill and “Obtain Chest Item” attribute. Instead of them I would create a new attribute which will allow you to open every chest with no need to have a key (max attribute lvl 5), and a new offensive skill.