Tree of Savior Forum

Everything in Videos Says Murmillo Shinobi is better than Dragoonc2

Class and Rank Swordsman
#21

I don’t want to be picky but on the dragoon’s video:

He isn’t using all the burst abilities given by the class:

Where is Gae bulg? Forgetting a 100% damage bonus is plain stupid when you have to burst, the debuff is long enough (7.5 second after landing so around 5 secs usable) to enable this combo: Gae bulg => Spear lunge => Serpentine => double Dethrone.
He putted at least one point in Dragon Soar but never used it the whole fight maybe those points are better invested in Dragontooth/Gaebulg/Serpentine. I really think that a 5/5/5 gae/serp/dethrone is strictly better than his 10/5 Serpentine/Dethrone.

He also forgot to use Spear lunge before using Stabbing resulting in a flat burst loss.
He took one lvl of doppel but never used DoV and Lapasape Mushroom combo… If we suppose that he is using a metabuild dragoon SW1/pel1/hoplite 3/Doppel1/Dragoon2 , where did he put all his point in hoplite? 10 in spear lunge? 5 in spear throw 15 in stabbing+finestra? It will be the best in end game (because you will use them ad nauseam) but not at this point where Pierce is still good enough.

I’m also guessing that he switched on a geras spear to maximize Spear throw damage but this is also debatable. Even with the 50% bonus damage on spear throw i’m not sure if it is strictly better than using it with his 2 Handed spear (dragoon got the attribute on boss monster for +20% damage), Maths are needed here ! :smiley: . If the weapon wasn’t nerfed when the video was recorded, just forget this point.

For me, it is hard to tell if the problem is the dragoon or the player.

#22

the player
/20charanditsobvious

#23

Gae bulg isn’t +100%, it’s like +15%. The second hit is a fake multi hit.

That’s why gae bulg sucks.

#24

so peltasta c2 rodelero c3 shinobi murmilo is now OP

#25

If it’s anything like crossguard or seism’s fake multi-hits the numbers add up to the relevent multiplier x damage. Idk what Gae Balg’s multiplier is supposed to be, but the first hit should also do an increased amount of damage if it’s a fake multi-hit.

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#26

Pretty much

/obviously20

#27

i remember that patch where they made the peltasta and rodelero skills available with clones and everyone was like “wtf why peltasta?”

#28

Lol, this is why. Honestly shooting star x 6 is already kinda busted. and for the fact the skills are now buffed significantly(regardless of if your clones don’t get the helmet buffs) you still do some insane damage.

#29

did you used it or are you assuming thing from reading on the internet (like lvling Spear lunge will reduce the resist chance on the debuff)?
im using it every day and the hit are exactly the same (the small differences are due to having different crit roll and min-max roll). Maybe it is depending on the lvl of the skill?
Maybe it is not the best skill in a personnal point of view (it is not what i’m thinking) but for teamplay this skill is golden because applicable on all physical damage (ranged and melee) .
The point I can agree with you is that the attribute is quitte underwhelming (2÷ att is quitte low and the zone is small and always in the melee range if you want it to be successful)

#30

it’s a kToS datamine and has been tested in iToS already. But I don’t have the skill so I can’t say for sure. Anyways how it works is it takes the original hit, multiplies it by 1.15x, and splits it into two hits. Kinda like galin trident, but galin trident splits it into 3 hits.

#31

Highlander Shinobi > Fencer > Doppel > Dragoon @ R8

All of them are very strong.

#32

Im working on a hoplite that will pick shinobi>murmillo . Whats the big deal about syncro thrusting? It will work with clones btw i saw it in some patch notes. Shooting star does more than syncro thrusting and hits more times. Murmillo helmet buffs that skill and has a skill to increase strike damage. Id think even kunai with clones would do more than syncro thrusting.

#33

Have you checked :
Are players in both videos using equivalent gear and optimal stats?
Have players in both videos invested the same amount of attribute points/attribute money?
Are they doing the most optiomal skill combo they can do?

If any of these questions are answered with “no” or “i don’t know”, then i don’t think that these videos are comparable. Without knowing their gear, attributes, stats, etc it’s almost impossible for make any comparison.

For example, I’m sure i can make fireballs look better than frost cloud if i use level 100 attributed fireballs vs a level 0 frost cloud, especially if i’m using a better weapon and better stats when testing fireballs.

#34

Lol slowly?

FLame ground 15 does more hits than Frost Cloud 5.

Which is the more valued skill.

Frost cloud 5 because it does all of its hits in 10 seconds instead of 30 seconds.

Games been burst till you drop since forever.

#35

As @fatedhour is saying, it makes any physical attacks fake multihits while increasing the damage by 15%. It works identical to Umbo Blow on a Staggering target.

An easy way to realize it’s not a 100% increase at all is by using a normal attack with and without Gae Bulg active. Your regular hit will do far more damage than either of the two hits with the debuff active.

Regular damage x1.15 = Hit 1 + Hit 2.

There’s no reason to get this skill higher than level 1. The damage itself is terrible and you need to pick up your spear too. It has a long cooldown, and either of the two attributes are trash. Level 1 for the 15% debuff is all you ever need.

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#36

You’re comparing a rank 2~4 skill to a rank 6 skill.

??? I don’t see your point. Of course the rank 6 skill will be stronger than the rank 2~4 skill.

A better comparison is Frost cloud 5 to Magic Arrow 5, Magic arrow 5 to Magic arrow 10, and Magic arrow 10 to Serpentine -> Dethrone.

#38

dethreone is the best, you should watch vonfreya
he review dragoon C2 skill, and dethrone range is broken, half screen range
with 16k attack power + low CD + 2 overheat

#39

I dont think you understand.
The rank 2 skill does more damage but it takes longer.
Which is the point, a desire for damage early on instead of overtime because mobs are not expected to live long (so long as we can help it).
The train of thought has been there from the start.

#40

Flame ground 15 does 7,080 total damage while frost cloud is 20,576.

??? Flame ground is weaker even if it only lasted for 10 seconds and had the same amount of hits at the 30 second duration.

magic arrow compared to frost cloud is like 28k over 5 seconds vs 20k over 10s
And serpentine + Dethrone is 66k in like 3 seconds.

I mean, I know what you are saying, you just had a bad example. But no, the burst em down game style didn’t start popping up until rank 7 came along.

#41

Shinobi, get rdy to be disapointed… like big time. Cant wait for this patch to hit itos so we stop seeing post like this.

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