If it wasn’t for us older players, the market wouldn’t have continued to develop and become a mainstream staple of gaming. I really do not understand the vehemency of the people complaining about this.
I’m not even sure I’ll be getting the packs but I really think it’s a nice option for people who are willing to pay for early access. Early access does NOT equal no open beta.
ragnarok online was subscription based during the launch. ToS is cash shop. It’s like a complete different world.
Actually, with the way the founder packs are set up currently, it’s pretty much sub-based with a refund in cash shop points. You’re getting an extra 9.00 worth of points over the value as they’ve listed it on the announcement plus two head gears if you get the 3 month one. If you go with the average sub price of 15.00 a month, **you’re only paying 4.99 for around 54.00 worth of points for the 50.00 founder pack. Assuming you factor the cost in comparison to subscribing to a game for 3 months.
@_o my math might be slightly off on that, but I’m sleepy.
Basically it’s RO with better gameplay, class system and graphic. But it’s totally RO, just ToS got a shitty universe while RO got an amazing one.
Without RO players, you could remove at least 30% of the current ToS Players.
In fact, ToS project was called Project R1 and Lee Myung-jin (dad of Ragnarok Manhwa and Ragnarok Online kinda), was involved in the project.
So, well, debate is over.
Wrong. It’s actually mostly cultural differences. What is okay over there is definitely not okay over here. Street Fighter? They had to remove a taunt because it was “inappropriate” for Western Audiences. Neptunia series will not be getting all their games localized because they are “inappropriate” for Western Audiences. iDOLM@STER will also most likely never come over to the West because of that. Bottom line is; Culture differences. Not “whiny kids”. We actually WANT their games.
Before you attack me, just remember that Koreans right now for kToS are also pretty upset with the game. So don’t put all the blame on people in the West.
It isn’t about Money nor the Founder’s Packs; as much as people say it is (They’re the greedy ones). It’s about sending a message; we as gamers in the 201x don’t tolerate deception, we want honesty and communication between the Company and their customers. I’m just going to point over to Blizzard Entertainment for Overwatch. They actually ASKED their player base WHAT BUSINESS MODEL would they support.
Don’t use Blizzard as an example. They’re pretty much too big to fail at this point. They could do anything they want and what the 201x generation of gamers accept or don’t accept wouldn’t mean a damn thing.
Sad fact of the matter is, as long as people can vote with their wallet, these types of community outrages will only ever work on smaller companies.
But us old vets
are too young
15 years ago
that is the difference then and now
I will agree there are cultural differences (I absolutely HATE it when games are brought over for american audience and are censored, however because there is nothing I can do about that ill simply suck it up and import all my Japanese games), however I will argue there are a lot of whiney kids on this here forum
Im in no way trying to attack you. Your argument is contructive, unlike some people’s >.> <.< .
Another thing is that Yes it was wrong of them to change their Business model overnight, however I would say with all the hate building up, it doesn’t really help anyone (not you, i meant all the flamers).
Apologies for my crap english, im trying to finish a ton of stuff atm…(multitasking)
I will use them as an example because they did exactly what companies should consider doing with their player base.
This is just completely false; and in my opinion a fairly naive statement. A more recent example is SquEnix with FFXIV. That game was ■■■■■■■ awful in 1.0 and the community knew it. Made their complaints; and the game was made anew…
If enough people disagree with someone; change occurs. What matters the most is if the Company truly cares for their customers. If they don’t, then their game will die.
Yes, a game was remade, by yet another company that was too big to fail. They’re thankfully able to remain afloat with several other games in their line up(God knows people took Final Fantasy XIII and Lightning Returns, hook, line and sinker)I see your examples and raise you Nexon, TRION Worlds, Perfect World Entertainment and damn near every other publisher out there notorious for killing off otherwise good games by repeatedly ignoring their player base and feeding the whales(rich players). These games remain active for better or for worse because those who weren’t investing just didn’t count.
If you think the extra man hours that would go into remaking a game that hasn’t even yet recouped its losses hinges only on the input of the customer base, you’re mistaken. It is more likely such a game would shut down entirely. Anyone remember Tabula Rasa?
Are you serious? SquEnix was in the red and FFXIV saved them from bankruptcy.
Source? I remember hearing the same thing about their terrible movie.
As you said yourself, today you can make bigger games in the same time that u did smaller ones 15 years ego.
Games still take 4-6 year to develope, because ppl expect more.
So, your point is kind of pointless. This game is bigger in most ways than RO when it came out, and still its in a much better state, A MUCHHHHH BETTER STATE.
So, though i get what you say, its not like that. Current tecnology let you do things faster, but as you said yourself, ppl expect much more content now in the same time period. So the OP point its actually pretty valid.
As a game dev myself (programmer and also have some experience in 3D modeling and graphic design) i can assure you that 99% of the ppl here that say they “know” enough about game development to talk ■■■■, knows nothing.
You’re missing the point. The industry and its customers have evolved. The standards of 15 years ago mean very little these days. That’s all I was trying to say. You can’t compare the launch of RO to ToS. It’s a completely different time period.
Wow, I was four* years old when Ragnarok Online was in beta. 
That makes me love and miss that game even more when it was still golden.
I guess u didnt understand my point. What ppl are complaining is time/cost/game state. All those things can be compared, time of developmente its the same today (since ppl expect more content, so even though now we can make things faster, ppl want more stuff in the same period), since most of the cost of a game comes from the amount of employees and time of development, this applies too.
Fifteen years ego you needed more programers than today, now you need less programmers but more artists, community managers, legal ppl, marketing ppl, since there is more competition than before.
Last, the game state can be compared since both had a similar aproach to launch, both charged for “early acces” while the game wasnt finished, though RO was in a much alpha state than ToS. Even though ppl expect better launchs now than 15 years ego, this games has much more content and systems, which requieres more debugging and testing than games 15 years old (though we have better tools for that too), but most noticiable, this game its a port from a Korean game, this is not a smal task. Ppl may not know this but, to port a game made by (and for) Koreans there is a lot of “behind the scenes” work.
Balance, translations, voice overs (i think they did some of this), closing deals with partners and servers, hiring employs that assist them in this particular process (NA designers and consultans, community manager), prbly hire a couple of programers/artis/designers to take care of the changes they do in this server, and ofc, legal issues.
In this case, and only discussing about time, cost and game state, the comparison is not that bad. But im not saying its the same thing, just a valid point.
Y’all are confusing today with yesterday again.
It was also the only MMO of its kind at the time, and this took place before MMOs became mainstream. No WoW, no smartphones, no anime-inspired games, no console games with a stable central server…
The standard today is much, much higher. You can’t really make a fair comparison.
comparing a game from 15 years ago to the competitive mmo market of these days…yeah great ¬¬
actually expansions existed then and are the reason they still exist now (they are antiquated and should not)
