Tree of Savior Forum

[Discussion] Leticia's cubes; Pro's and Con's

I’d like to start a healthy discussion instead of a topic containing a cease pool of whining.

Personal thoughts and unpopular opinion: I’m glad that they’re bringing in Leticia’s cube. I think that the implementation of Leticia’s cube allows us to clear a wall that needed to be knocked down, however improper the method may be as it is indeed a cash grab. That wall is Practonium. This devalues the cost of Practonium as it should As it stands, it is difficult for a newer players and even veteran players that don’t have the amount of time that others do to get into end-game. The reason being is because of the high cost of everything.

I’m fairly vocal about my standpoint on Practonium’s. It’s an inherently flawed system that needs to be addressed. To my understanding, thanks to @Staff_Yuri and her blog, they’re working on it. I’ve no reason to doubt them on the matter as they did release their Combat Rehaul within a timely and enjoyable manner. Though there’s a lot of underwhelming classes thanks to the ratios, this can be worked out with time.

Now we’ve got the PvP rehaul and DPK rehaul to look forward to.

So to continue with my personal sentiments on the matter of Leticia’s Cube, I’d like to bring up a few points that actually anger me:

  • The difficulty in finding a functional Solmiki static that can meet arranged scheduling due to a lack of players capable of clearing Solmiki

  • The high cost of attributes and the absurd requirements in obtaining pre-end-game armor and weapons to realistically farm the floors in an agreeable and almost enjoyable fashion.

  • The in-game errors that cause teams to leave Solmiki with nothing to show for it

  • The absurd cost of rerolling Solmiki armor (235m for a full 7 set, give or take some) and we’ve yet to understand the % of rerolls for 40F cubes but to give you an understanding it’s about 90-100 cubes of 40F Solmiki per 2h Weapon and slightly less for a 1H weapon/shield.

  • The continuous nerf of some of our more viable methods of obtaining silver, including 290 and AFK Necromancer.

  • The wall of remaking several characters to do a particular set of dailies to the point of redundancy so to obtain a necessity for end-game farming AKA Blessed Shards. Goddess Blessed Gems; Transcendance.

What will Laticia’s cube do for players:

  • It will allow players to obtain materials necessary to make high-end weapons without the obnoxious 5k-10k kills in HG

  • It will allow newer players entering the game to reach an affordable dream so that they too may not be gated by players who have been playing significantly longer and in turn make or join statics for Solmiki.

  • It completely makes it possible for people to obtain R8-9-10 gems so that the gem meta is now rehauled.

  • It will allow higher upgrades on weapons if Diamond Anvil does indeed guarantee success (but we’ve no details on this) meaning lower transcendance will be universally accepted in Solmiki to clear 35-40F, especially in case of a double cube drop event for Earth Tower.

  • It will let people fully enjoy the reset event going on this week without having to sacrifice characters they’ve invested their silver into (my SR – now Sapper Falcon – has all R100 attributes for the most part of a few unnecessary ones).

  • It will provide more longevity and enjoyability to the game while crashing an unrealistic economy thanks to a much needed devaluation due to Necromancer farming and 290 nerf (again).

Closing Statement: As you can tell I’m personally enjoying that Leticia’s cube is coming out. Whether I’m spending on it or not. I’ve already got 2 Solmiki ready characters and raise a few interesting points which I’d love for more stimulated minds to discuss and even refute. I enjoy perspectives.

I have, however, never played a game that required an obnoxious amount of time to do end-game content with such tight coordination due to IMC issues (Crashing in the tower, VGA error, lost runs) to cost me EVEN MORE for me to obtain end-game gear. Furthermore, that end-game gear is gated behind a stupid, downright pathetic reroll system that doesn’t guarantee you the equipment. Like it isn’t hard enough already for a person to run 2-3 hours a day to F15 and then have to drop 235m for an entire set of armor. On average it takes upwards 3-4 months to complete a Solmiki set.

Indirectly, Leticia’s cube addresses an issue that I personally had a huge vendetta against.

It’s funny, it’s kind of sad, to see people boycott and demand of IMC to not release a cube that will for the most part benefit everyone. But they won’t get angry that attributes cost an obnoxious amount. That their mains get shafted and removed from the meta-mancing pool and may not be taken into Solmiki due to the difficulty in clearing. They won’t get angry that 290 got nerfed repeatedly and they’ve still to provide a viable way to make silver for the content that is end-game. They will not get angry that Saalus remains a gate to be conquered to obtain Transcendence so that you can clear said end-game content.

They don’t get mad and boycott that.

I’m even saddened about the necromancer gig because it was indeed the best source of income. I don’t have a single Necromancer on my team but I think that Necromancers have made me a lot of silver for my efforts. And I thank Necromancer players.

In gist, tl;dr use your heads.

The game is going in a better direction. They needed funding. This will help funding. Sure, there are several better ways to do this, but I’m personally glad that they chose a route that conveniences all players while bringing down the cost of ridiculous materials and gated content. I’m glad newer players can now reasonably afford certain things so that I may have more people within my guild and outside of my guild to do content. It doesn’t in any which way affect me negatively.

They still have yet to address the core issues of the game and those are more valid reasons to anger oneself instead of Leticia’s Cube.

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Welp:

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does it really kill the game if it brings incredibly hard to come by items to casual players through the market?
also the isnt it easier to just buy a few tokens and sell them to buy pract in the market.

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Furthermore, in an MMORPG people who play by themselves will 100% leave. Especially if they’re gated behind content and whatnot. I have two fully invested and geared Solmiki characters. So my point is to use what’s left of my funding to help lower level players in my guild achieve things that indirectly helps me. One hand washes the other.

I’ma Whale! Yay~
Muahahahaha

Expectation: Practs, Anvils, and Abras will flood the server!

Reality: Everyone gets lvl 2 exp cards and talt (finds a way)

We all know how RNGesus is…

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More Talts for the TALT GODS!

I was thinking you’re a reasonable person until i read this.

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What gated content? Lol

This isn’t about catching up, it’s about allowing people who are already ahead to get that much more ahead, because they decided to throw money at the game for an advantage.

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Hey, thanks for replying. I think there’s a lot of topics about players feeling married to their characters because of the recent changes and even prior to the big patch. I feel that Solmiki and end-game content is gated towards meta-mancers and as well people who have more time than the next. There’s cheap and effecient ways to break into this: Such as Cryo/Chrono/Sage and Taoist healers at current time, which don’t require much silver at all but then it makes people feel some kind of way about ignoring their mains.

Though nothing in the game warrants using Solmiki armor, let alone Lolopanther, but it’s still content a lot of players look forward to. As my guild expanded, a lot of our newer players were overwhelmed with what was necessary and disheartened over it. But they were all interested.

You need a group that your character fits in. You need Transcendence. You need strong weapons/armor to survive higher floors. It’s a gate. 315 Practonium weapons are a blessing and a curse. It’s gated behind DPK. Behind Practonium RNG rerolls. Behind Transcendence.

For our guild, we farmed Grynas Torch and crafted them for lower level players using their timed armor. We farmed Sissel’s, Phada’s, and Max Peta’s, gave them out to lower level people. Not everyone has this luxury, to have people assist them in their build path and instead go through trial and error. There’s even less people willing to give away Sissel’s and BB’s. We have ET runs to help people get into Lolopanther and eventually Solmiki, we have people who want and are content with Lolopanther armor and have no desire for Solmiki. ET is more accessible now than it ever has been, but all of them want Practoniums. They’re equally disheartened by the fact that they have to level ANOTHER character to 317. Sure, that’s the game they play – but playing this game doesn’t mean they’re forced to enjoy every aspect and should withhold their opinions. That’s my take on it all

Finding a group that can fit your build is also difficult. Solmiki remains an amazing place for AOE and will heavily punish other compositions lacking this.

I think, to me, it’s gated behind that.

It will catch a lot of new players up. I also think it will make players who are ahead get further ahead too. I don’t deny that fact. But I believe catch-up mechanic is more correct.

I don’t agree 100% with AFK Necromancer but when I began getting into late-game and noticing the absurd cost of rerolling items, i began to appreciate them. Ultimately, I can say I don’t care for them-- if that makes sense – but due to the Orsha economy, I can appreciate them existing.

Hence at current time I still don’t have a Necromancer but the people who do have Necromancers were able to purchase things I sold without issue.

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Scared whale makes a thread, licking IMCs salty balls in an attempt to make this look ok in everyone’s eyes.

Yeah, nah brah. We mad.

The whole Leticias cube thing is a rather amusing, hilarious and also tragic proof how the modern “free-to-play”-game industry fools the players by introducing hard-to-get items and then putting items in the cash shop a bit later to profit off frustrated players.

  1. First you make a really nice game to get everyone hooked.
  2. Then you introduce some endgame item that people really want, but make it stupidly unlikely or highly luck based to get it so people get frustrated. Not because of lack of skill, but because of frustrating rng-mechanics.
  3. After a while, you introduce a RNG-cash item that “in no way is pay2win, it just provides our players options for maybe getting the item a bit faster”.
  4. Frustrated by deliberately manipulating rng-questrewards like the mystical cube players will be encouraged to buy the item.
  5. After a while, introduce higher levels and repeat from step 2

I’ll predict with rank 9 there will be a new ore, say, Unobtainium, that you can only get after completing every single quest in the game and then you get a cube that you can open once a week and have a 1/200 chance to get said Unobtainium.
A month later they’ll introduce Gibbijabbers cube in the cash shop for 20$ each which has a low chance of giving the player one Unobtainium. It’s not Pay2Win, they’re just “providing options”.

It’s the same “free-to-play-cashshop”-PR-bullshit we hear from Electronic Arts and Ubisoft when they introduce microtransactions into their AAA-games… “No player has to use it, we’re just providing ‘options’ to obtain items a bit faster”… but they never mention that it’s their fault that they put in these frustrating ingame mechanics that encourage buying cashshop items in the first place.

"Hi, i’m the guy who designed the Mystical Cube mechanics. Awww, you have been opening the Mystical cube for months and never got your Prac? I have an idea how to fix it : Give me 10$ and i’ll roll a 200 sided die and if you’re lucky i’ll give you your Prac directly. I just want to help you enjoy the game. :slight_smile: ".

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Fuk your practonium and diamond anvil.

Make diamond anvil able to lose potential and ill be fine with it.

still fk practonium. even my guild is almost lv 15. fk it.

keep doing it and yorozuya will leave.

thats all im gonna say

-[K] qwert628

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Not that I want to make drama but isn’t Yorozuya all the way around using Sorcerers for AFK farming with (illegal) auto-potion macro in Vilna Forest, Dina Bee and other maps? Even holding up an entire channel with a base camp nearby?

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It’s a really interesting perspective. I don’t care if Leticia’s cube is removed but IF I had to pick, let it stay. The way we function as a group completely disrupts the norm from other guilds. I have noticed this.

I have yet to state this wasn’t a cash grab or P2W cube. Not once.

I agree that it is. People who are ahead and invest into themselves will naturally get further from people who don’t have the resources – financially in real life or in-game. This is fine. I’m not disturbed by these procedures.

They will rinse and repeat this a few times throughout the longevity of the game – however long it lasts.

However, without a doubt, it’ll make it easier for me to pay some 5-10m per pract if the drop rate is nice enough, it’ll let me invest more silver into shards. It’ll help me form teams within my guild and get us going.

I’m not phased one way or another. One way is shorter, one way takes time. We were already going the route that took time, this is an added bonus.

My biggest annoyance with the cube is the material box which we’ve no details on. But if it drops more than 1 mat per roll or you can reroll it for a low cost, then it defeats the purpose of DPK entirely for the week. Silver whales will then eat them all up and use them or sell them higher later on, depending on when the implement the DPK rework and if in actuality it changes anything.

It is their fault that all of these things are frustratingly hard. As players we’ve a choice to continue playing or not to. I would be all against these cubes if, for an example, they removed the silver issue from the game in its entirety for ET armor/weapons. If they made transcendence more readily available and truly an end-game reward instead of the “how many alts can I make to get trans 10 faster”.

Or perhaps if the cost of attributes at higher ranks matched the income value of active players vs former AFK farming.

Just in general, make silver more accessible and rewarding at certain intervals of the game.

But they won’t.

Disagree, there are good and bad ways to implement something, if they want founding they can implement stuff as this but a limitation to regulate and prevent the game from becoming pay to win has to be taking into account as well as an equality system for players that cant afford to break the pay to win wall to get the same stuff by playing the game (via quests, wich have to be dificult).

A daily limit buy count and daily open box count should fix this issue, otherwise people with high budgets are going to get greedy and we know what happens then.

My arguments are true not only for Pracs, but also the 315 item mats… both are stupidly annoying and rng-y to get, both frustrate players, both were introduced by IMC and for both IMC is now trying to cash in on this.

Heck, one could argue that the EXP requirements for higher level gems and IMC selling cash items with gem abrasives is done in the same way : frustrate the player with high requirements for some items (like Gem Exp), then cash in on it by making the players pay for an easier way. And maybe even Saalus items soon too.

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personally i am very against it and will never use it. but if imc feels its ok guess i cant ban it.

I DID say no one in the guild should use Macro, micro w/e (and i really try to stop it if i know), and if ANYONE found our members using, feel free to report them.

that being said, i really wish imc can stop auto farm all together.

EDIT: and many of our members dont use it and try to be “fair gaming”

If it makes it so that I can put together or even pug Solmiki during down times, I’m all for it. My entire interest is having other players that can compensate their lack of experience with gear until they can have both at once. I don’t care either way.

Everyone made a big deal about Necromancer but that didn’t solve anything. Again, I don’t have a single Necromancer on any account nor my lodge.

I’m still waiting for more rage about cost of attributes. Cost of rerolling Solmiki (but most people can’t run Solmiki because not enough players to run with at any time of day or not geared enough).

Silver is the biggest issue this game has. Practonium weapons are not necessary to clear Solmiki. TBH you can budget any 315 weapon HG weapon into Transcendence 5-7 and with a proper meta-build you can clear without issue what-so-ever.

There’s a thousand ways to spin it. I would love for them to make Practonium irrelevant. But if you want a hard hitting weapon, currently that’s your best bet.

If gems were a requirement to clear content, I’d make a bigger deal about it. As it stands my Elememe ran without a single gem in the Regard Staff without issue. Now it has r7 gems, great. If not, no sweat off my back.

However, yeah. My team has completed well over 10+ Orange weapons for ourselves, people in our guild, and other people on our server. 17 maybe more in my case. We hate DPK and have found our own methods to make it faster. I hate the entirety of 315 orange weapons entirely. I prefer tiered raids much like WoW or FFXIV. But I enjoy this game, so I compromise.

They will grab cash on it but hear me out, I bet they’re phasing out practoniums in the R9 patch. I bet they will introduce something frustrating but it wont be Practoniums or an RNG cube. If I’m wrong, I’ll eat a sock on cam.