Tree of Savior Forum

DEX vs STR debate

Yes, I am fully aware of this

but I have overlooked QS3 running shot which do depend on STR. so investing in pure dex will give you stagnant growth of damage using RS.

Well how about this kind of skill? I’m not sure which stat will give it better benefit.

Retreat Shot should benefit more on balanced distribution due to high skill damage + multi-hit nature. Same with skills like Magic Arrow, Flare Shot, etc.

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My big thing is everyone here is focusing purely on DMG they forget the survivability dex gives. Doing dmg isn’t just about big numbers it’s about also being alive long enough to deal dmg. With our low con scaling even if we do plate we still get smacked in the mouth. You high STr builds will have a hellish time soloing content latter or questing at higher lvs. High evade from dex help with that. Mind you yes you do less dmg you are alive longer to do dmg in the first place. Dead dps does no dps.

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So much assumption. I’m a Lv252 Scout C3 with alot more STR investment than DEX and I can grind/quest pretty fine. You also seem to forget that on Earth Tower, you’re not supposed to tank anything because you’re suppose to have a Paladin C3 there or Cleric C3 for Barrier or Safety Wall.

Also, even with high STR, it’s extremely easy to still have high evasion.

I look at it this way. High crit is consitent numbers and I like that. Im not implying my way is best mearly thorwing out some talking points. Yes tanks and heal should be doing this and yes you should be safe. But it only takes a couple of hits from stray mobs or things of that nature for us to be in trouble. I find more survial in dex focused builds. I like having a safety net. Dex also gives me dmg as I enjoy kneeling shot. I find point for point building str by items more and doublely benifical to me then pouing it all into dex based items. Str based have the bonus of generaly carrying aoe attack as well. So to me it works out. More points from headgear and for accesories becuase you get two stats for str compared to one for dex. From str build I have played with I generaly take hits or lack there of compared to them.

It’s your opinion and preference, you want more survivability so you chose DEX, you also like consistent numbers but that doesn’t mean you can generally imply that DEX is better.

STR, phy atk, crit atk from gears are all linear. They are all fixed values. While stat pts invested on STR scales. Just how many times does this need to be explained, per rank you get 10% STR bonus and the higher the STR investment, the faster it grows based from this below,

1 ~ 50 total stats Bonus every 5th stat point
51 ~ 150 total stats Bonus every 4th stat point
151 ~ 300 total stats Bonus every 3rd stat point
301 ~ 500 total stats Bonus every 2nd stat point
500+ total stats Bonus every stat point

That STR stat scaling + class rank’s STR bonus makes STR grow ridiculously fast. To the point that for example even at 400+ STR, another stat investment on STR would give you 3 STR, yes T-H-R-E-E.

And you seem to have ignored the fact that it’s ridiculously easy to have high evasion even with small investment on DEX. Try equipping a Lv220 Leather Boots, upgrade it and even put at least Lv5 Green Gems on it. It will grant you significant evasion increase. Equip full leather and max out your Leather Mastery, it will give you +75 more evasion. Archer naturally have high evasion and we all have Swift Step whether we like it or not, it also boosts evasion. Using one of the best necklace which is Petamion grants you some DEX for additional evasion. The list goes on.

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The fun part is this example:

At rank 6 I did put some points into STR after a hard focus on DEX. I got around 20 points into STR just using 5 or 9 points thanks to the + % rank bonus. :grin:

It was eficient as DEX is pretty good early game and now I can focus on STR with all my rank bonus % and I can gain STR “faster”, just with a few lvl ups.

Put Con.

1 ~ 50 total stats Bonus every 5th stat point
51 ~ 150 total stats Bonus every 4th stat point

So you need something between 50 ~ 150 total CON, (before items ofc).

It’s important not to lose the bonus point from it. (every x stat points) Dunno why ppl forgot about this and sometimes just waste some extra points.

What exactly do you mean by “Waste some extra points”?
How can you waste it?

Example:

You are rank 5. At this point, you allways had points into DEX and CON.

Now you are rank 6. Every single point from rank 6 to 7 you will use on STR. So, 1 point used in STR maybe = to 4 or 5 points of STR. If you go full DEX, you will lose this extra STR bonus points. So, is a “waste”.

ps: try this here http://www.tosbase.com/tools/stat-calculator/ and see for yourself.

1 - you can have this http://www.tosbase.com/tools/stat-calculator/build/u10nafnzee/ (More 48 STR than opt 2)

2 - or this http://www.tosbase.com/tools/stat-calculator/build/h0umj8pznb/
(more 30 DEX than the opt. 1)

Wich one you would take?

Fill in your build in his calculator and find out. Sometimes, 1 dex is worth more than 4 strength.
Any Cannoneer skill for example.

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im going for Qs3 Archer 3 musketeer, at end game content including green gems all included.
should i go for full dex? since swift step + kneelshot = 35% crit rate total.
and 1 dex = 1damage during kneelshot. im looking to get the highest dps for my autoattack, during Runningshot+ kneelshot 10.

I’m intending to go

A3>R1>RO1>FAL1>CANNON

Since I will be getting swift step attribute from A2 and Sneak hit from RO1, what would be the ideal stat allocation, or rather what crit should I aim for, before investing the rest of my SP to STR?

Got it!
But what would you do if you class is more Dex oriented like Cannoneer?

Thanks in advance.

@danielhoweikuan.87@icyruios

For finding the stat spread for best damage per hit with kneeling + running shot auto attacks, you could use this spreadsheet.

STR:DEX optimiser

If swift step and/or kneeling shot’s critical rate attribute is factored in, edit cell B32 accordingly. Kneeling shot’s non-DEX additional attack added goes under cell C21. Sneak hit’s added crit chance goes under cell B34.

You might want to adjust the target defence and crit resist to the world boss of your choice. Remember to lower the target’s physical defence if you’re using ‘one handed bow mastery: ignore defence’ attribute.

Thank You so much, ure a god for making this spreadsheet <3. im going QS3 Archer3 Musketeer. im going to on my swiftstep which is 25% crit rate, and kneelshot have 10% crit rate, totals up to 35% crit rate. i plan to always have my swiftstep + Runningshot + kneelshot 10 all the time. is pure dex or hybrid or pure str better? since str works well with just Running shot, and dex works well with kneelshot. but the outcome of the dps during Runningshot (scales with str) + kneelshot (scales with dex) which stats should i go for? to have the most dps during RS + kneelshot
and is it easy to reach 4501 total attack at end game 280 with decent gears and green gems? does this include after i crit or a noncrit? and when you say pure dex is better? is it because musketeer can also use Musketeer gun which have alot of base damage towards their autoattacks, thats why pure dex is better also? besides the skill

That’s kinda hard to answer. It really depends on the target’s defence, crit resistance, and your critical rate from equips. Here’s a few things to note, if min-maxing is what you’re aiming for.

Disclaimer: The exact interaction between running shot and criticals is still a little unclear at this point, so take my auto attack advice with a pinch of salt. I don’t have a quarrel shooter to test, and haven’t seen anyone confirm if running shot’s multiplier is applied after elemental damage and/or crit attack. Someone has even reported to have found that running shot causes a double application of the ‘critical attack’ stat. https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/is-the-critical-attack-x2-while-running-shot/249430
I’ll just go by the principle of parsimony and take the simplest calculation (running shot applied first, right after attack stats are summed) for this answer.

When it comes to running shot auto attacks, the didel grandcross + manamana combo beats musket damage. You’d only switch to musket to cast attack skills, which means only swift step’s crit should be factored in for musket calculations; no kneeling shot.

Since you’ve got swift step and kneeling shot to multiply your crit rate during your crossbow + running shot duration, optimising your auto attack damage would basically involve aiming to just barely hit 100% crit chance, or as close as you can get it to 100% with your equips and DEX. Leftover points go to STR. Dex is prioritised because each point of crit rate is now worth more (multiplied by the attributes), and especially because your effective attack gets increased by dex which, when multiplied by running shot’s x3 to x4.2, is sufficiently large for crit rate to give greater returns than increments of attack.

Best musket skill damage is similar. Focusing on snipe damage for that quick burst of dps, your effective attack is bundled with snipe’s 5997 skill attack before going through the crit multiplier. In this situation, critical rate from DEX is worth far more than additional attack from STR, even with the 70% bonus in STR stat points taken into account.

About that 4501 total attack before crit at end game, it’s unlikely. Even with great gear, you’d probably only be in the 1100 - 1300 range with a full STR build. When added to big hitters like the musketeer skills though, the total can easily exceed 4501, so that’s something to consider. Full DEX is good for musketeers because of their high attack skills. Non-kneeling non-running auto attacks from a 400 attack gun doesn’t provide enough effective attack to warrant a full DEX build.

Here’s the TLDR of it. Assuming you’re able to get some good endgame gear, i.e. upgrade your didel grandcross and finisher to +10, get a manamana, use lvl 7 crit gems on your weapons, running shot gem on armour, double sissel, 33 att headgear x3, etc. these are some rough stat spreads you might want to aim for. Points are spared for other stats since you might want to invest in some CON.

For auto attacks vs. a 457 def 120 crit resist target (the average world boss?),
0 points in other stats: 0.61 STR per point in DEX
25 points in other stats: 0.49 STR per point in DEX
50 points in other stats: 0.36 STR per point in DEX
75 points in other stats: 0.22 STR per point in DEX
100 points in other stats: 0.1 STR per point in DEX

For musket snipe damage vs. a 457 def 120 crit resist target,
0 points in other stats: 0.28 STR per point in DEX
25 points in other stats: 0.17 STR per point in DEX
50 points in other stats: 0.07 STR per point in DEX
75+ points in other stats: Full DEX

Yeah…you could aim for either one or somewhere in between.

*If running shot’s multiplier is applied after critical attack stat is added, then the optimum stat spreads for auto attack crossbow (prioritise STR in a 1.5~2.5 STR per point in DEX ratio) and skill burst musket (prioritise DEX in a 0.3~0 STR per point in DEX ratio) would be in conflict. Just decide if you want to focus on your burst or sustained dps in that case.

For auto attacks vs. a 457 def 120 crit resist target (the average world boss?),
0 points in other stats: 0.61 STR per point in DEX
25 points in other stats: 0.49 STR per point in DEX
50 points in other stats: 0.36 STR per point in DEX
75 points in other stats: 0.22 STR per point in DEX
100 points in other stats: 0.1 STR per point in DEX

yeah im just looking for straight up autoattacks, meaning 10 str : 1 dex? thats the most ideal? just looking for autoattacks highest dps, issit pure str or hybrid with a bit of dex? just making sure thans

For example, how would this look like in practice? How would a level 150 char look like?

@danielhoweikuan.87
Points in other stats refers to the number of points you’d be investing in CON, Spirit, or whatever. I just arbitrarily picked some values to stop at. Doubt most people invest more than 100 in CON. Pick the ratio that corresponds to the amount of points you plan on investing elsewhere. I rounded the values in the ratio to the nearest 10 for convenience/practicality.

0 in other stats: 3 STR : 5 DEX
25 in other stats: 1 STR : 2 DEX
50 in other stats: 2 STR : 5 DEX
75 in other stats: 1 STR : 5 DEX
100 in other stats: 1 STR : 10 DEX

@pabben
Assuming you have 0 bonus points at that level (unlikely, I know),

149 points - 50 in other stats = 99 points.
99 points * 0.36 / 1.36 = 26.21 STR
99 points * 1 / 1.36 = 72.79 DEX

You’ve got the whole numbers with 1 extra point to spare (I’d invest this in DEX since the decimal is larger). If you know the number of bonus points you’d have, just start the calculations with them. AFAIK, 36 is as high as it can get.

My whole problem stems from being a split in stat needs as a2 qs 3 flac musk.

My Musk wants high crit to benefit my heavy hitting skills

My QS wants str for auto attacks.

Not to mention our skills are multi hit based so that favors str for multishot but crit for covering fire.

How would one go about setting themselves up to benefit both sides or does it come down to picking one over the other?
I was originally running a str. dex hybrid with it leaning more to dex over str. Due to haveing multi founders packs I switched my build to see how the Koreans play with 50 str.50 con. rest dex build. My survivability has skyrocketed due to insane dodge but my autos are lacking. My Musk skills ALWAYS crit at this point haveing 517 crit rate without swift.

How do I find a good balance to fully utilize my class set up. Without killing my survivability. I know full str wouth be the best for auto builds but With archer being so lacking in HP I like the higher dodge rate. When it comes to magic I’m just screwed and I realise this

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