Tree of Savior Forum

Design Breakdown - Psychokino

WARNING - This thread isn’t made for new players or those that seek guidance on how to use said class, please look for proper threads regarding it such as class overviews and build guides. Design Breakdown is a design discussion thread only and has no purpose to help players on practical aspects of the game.

Starting another Design Breakdown this time not with one nor two, but three classes to cover - Pyromancer, Cryomancer and Psychokino. At first this was supposed to be a duo breakdown but it felt like Pyromancer has some points to discuss regarding Psychokino and it would miss the chance, as it is too much information to be covered (and read) there’ll be a day difference from each release and then the clash will be added later. In case this is your first time on a Design Breakdown topic go to this link for some basic information.

Psychokino - RANK 3 - ATTACK

“Psychokinos use psychokinesis to control gravity, or pull enemies and throw them around.”

A fair description for the class, the deal with Psychokino’s is to have enemies on where they want and they do that with the almost unique psychokinetic property. This makes it a damage over time and control class that works as an blend of Pyromancer and Cryomancer identities, which is one of the points to be discussed later. The theme behind Psychokino is blend of esper and magician, both variations on costumes are flamboyant as stage performers along with skills that move things around and teleportation, yet that can be arguable for the special costume.


Psychic Pressure (B) - Relief

For what this skill does it feels like it represents the failure on trying to move an object by forward, it’s a raw output of power that can’t achieve the desired goal. If that’s the case it’s a great use of the class system as it is right at the bottom of the class while Gravity Pole the real skill as it is way more refined. Something that can’t be shrugged of is how it has no particles to display the skill and even something as vague as a fog could be enough to tell something is going on.

Psychic Pressure has the same fundamental flaw as any channeling, it can be stopped when the caster is hit, and this is addressed with the stun attribute and also at the last circle with the focus one. However the stun is only relevant for mob fighting as bosses will just ignore it and for melee magic skill it is just odd to not be uninterruptible by default. The ability to change direction during channel is great and having more targets to be taken with level also sells it. Lastly it isn’t informed in the skill about the hit frequency as this kind of skill can range from hitting every 0.2 to 1 second.


Telekinesis (E) - Midground

Whenever someone thinks in psychic powers moving objects without touching them is at the top of the list, it’s something that magicians have explored over decades and brings awe, even tho it’s made brutal. Having the enemy to be isolated on a bubble is great for clarity as it restrain all enemy actions and helps to identify whom the skill is being used on, it also seems like uses visual elements found on sci-fi force fields to tie it up.

There are few things working for Telekinesis, to start things up it has a limited execution for the skill concept and also goes with 3 scaling factors as damage, hit count and duration. As usual having more hits and damage, along with a lack of floor on hit count, gives it a snowball effect where point investment output grows exponentially yet despite all that it still a terrible skill. The major and most visible issue with it is how it uses an enemy as the damage source itself which means that once it dies the skill will end, ironically by having the damage factor to increase with level it is more likely to kill the enemy in less hits instead of completing it. If that weren’t enough there are only 4 directions to redirect the enemy and along with the fixed distance the skill has it is fairly hard to pull it off as a crowd damage skill, in fact the distance is just long enough to allow enemies to avoid it and hit the user and since the movement is locked out it is impossible to run away. On the few things this skill does right is how it makes use of enemies size and how it has an option to deals extra damage when hitting an empty space, yet right now the only real use for it is to destroy a single enemy with massive damage and try to input directions as quick as possible. Lastly, there’s no way to end the skill unless by killing the snatched and this can be troublesome if the skill is used by accident or if the user don’t have enough damage to finish it of while is getting hit by hordes.

On the range possibilities this one has at least three. The most obvious one is delay any damage to the enemy to the end of the skill when hitting another foe, that alone is enough to get the skill to deal all the damage it can. Another option is to have each hit to capture an extra enemy and turn it into a skill that collect enemies to deal damage, this can even make use of AAR to limit how many enemies can be kidnapped or even use their ADR as additional AAR for the skill. Lastly it can have the mechanics revised and be changed completely, it’s possible to remove the movement input and replace it by the default Z attack as it throws the enemy directly at the targeted unit and have the assigned skill button to slam it on the ground. Regardless of the approach this skill needs more directional inputs or, if it already has them, be easier to use on the X pattern.


Swap (D) - Lead

A classic magic trick where the performer swap objects that are far from each other but here is applied on caster instead of two different elements.

It can sound weird but Swap is indeed the Lead skill as it can reposition several enemies at will, even tho the skill isn’t attractive at all as the only component is enemies to be swapped. The lack of floor makes make points more valuable but also put an invisible barrier at the entry point, even if we ignore that the skill won’t take enemies outside the targeting circle and it’s fairly hard to cram 10+ enemies on that tiny area. Being straight to the point, it will require too much effort to make this skill engaging and the only short term solution is to make the target area bigger.


Teleportation (E) - Gimmick

Just as the previous one this is also a common magic trick used on escapes, the random nature of the skill may be a way to connect it to the source as part of the performance was to surprise people showing up at unexpected locations.

Teleportation is an interesting skill but has one of the least interesting leveling factors in the game and even worse than Swap. Having the distance as the skill improvement isn’t bad but it is hard to measure it when the skill takes a random location by default and as few other skills do mention space measurements it is hard to keep track on how much it improves. The skill also doesn’t mention it can be controlled by having an input along with the cast and for a description as short as “Teleport to a random location” it isn’t an excuse to not include it. It’s another case of a skill that is cornered at a spot that makes improving it hard.


Easily one of the worst circles in wizard tree, only two skills are really functional and one is a pure gimmick. Both offensive skills can be wasted by their own mechanics being Telekinesis almost impossible to be used for anything else than bullying. Swap and Teleportation are the same skill with the slight difference that one teleports more things, it makes no sense for them to be two skills as they can easily be merged and keep the quick Teleportation for short key press.


Magnetic Force (B) - High Lead

From the thematic point this can see as another form of telekinesis focusing on moving all objects to a specific location. The skill visuals can be deceiving as it’s possible to interpret it as a lightning magic, along with the name, yet that may have been the best choice as few elements can communicate the idea effectively.

Magnetic Force is odd. It has a delayed activation that cannot be avoided as it staggers enemies that try to move then it groups them and deals damage, this creates a visual effect that feels like enemies are taking damage when they’re only being trapped in place. There are two ways to address it, one is by taking the effect away and replacing it by a slow or shock and the other one is having it to deal damage for each tilt.


Heavy Gravity (B) - Midground

Despite the fitting name the mechanics behind skill are different, here all the psychic energy is being used to push enemies towards the ground which causes deals damage and can slow them down.

This skill filled a void within the class as the damage skills were either channel or slow and Heavy Gravity does none. A weird phenomenon that happens here is when the theme tries to simulate the identity using other game elements, the whole concept of changing all enemies to ground type does that and this is something to question when analysing if it aligns with the identity or not and it gets more nebulous as Heavy Gravity and Raise cancel each other. One thing that is missed here is how the damage component doesn’t interact with flying enemies, it would be interesting to have it to deal extra damage when hitting a flying enemy (which is a single hit) and that opens up the possibility to use Raise as a damage amplifier even for a brief moment. The slow attribute is great but regarding theme but it would fit better to have it as (Mineloader card) shock instead as it also prevents jump to be performed and that matches the skill concept more.


There’s a significant improvement on how the class is played here, the previous circle has too little to offer on its own and even the utility skills perform poorly. With Magnetic Force it’s possible to pull out Swap effectively but that barely matters as the skill itself gives enough time to play around it, this change with Telekinesis as it can hit them a couple of times enemies a couple of times before they regain mobility.


Raise (C) - Grand Lead

In every single aspect this is the opposite of Heavy Gravity, even tho this skill is way older than the counterpart. The visual design takes the influence into sci-fi aesthetics on how visible force fields would be perceived in motion and it kinda works, yet it should be better to have it lighter.

All interesting points stated at the previous skill on how to deal with identity and theme apply here. Raise is a top tier debuff as it can even be removed nor dispelled and for the whole duration it gets enemies inside render useless and for rank and circle placement it is acceptable, yet they target limitation feels odd and having both r2 classes without this restrain makes it questionable and creates an overscale that isn’t really needed. It’s also odd for it to be a c3 skill with no damage on an true offensive class and even if they add it it won’t may not feel right as well, there’s this weird gap on the skill design that makes it feel like a c2 skill yet it is fairly good to be improved significantly. The easiest way to address it is by removing the target count or take it to 15 and add a new minor component that is improved with skill level or even a gimmick that can be used once per enemy.


Gravity Pole (D) - Relief

Back then when this skill used to drag enemies to the center it would be justified with the energy beam but at the current state it is nothing more than a longer Psychic Pressure.

To analyse Gravity Pole we must first understand its origins. As the name suggests this skill had an attraction effect that dragged enemies to the center and had then aligned with the beam, however that caused it to bug frequently and even crash players when used. Over time this component was slowly reduced till the point of complete removal and as result Gravity Pole became a long range Psychic Pressure that can’t be redirected. It is redundant and disappointing to have a slightly different version of a c1 skill to be added at the final circle and even the natural bind effect can be obtained with the counterpart.

Even at its prime having both skill was shady but due the later one unique use it was reasonable and that was further sustained by Psychokino’s lack of offensive power, this however was addressed over several class changes and at this point it isn’t doesn’t make sense to have this current version along with Psychic Pressure. It would work as good to change it into a range expansion attribute and get a new skill to replace it.


The last circle is concluded weirdly, Raise is a great skill but has sole use for control while Gravity Pole brings nothing new to the class as a whole aside extra channeling damage, none of them is useless but it’s hard to say they match their placement. One point to address here is how having a cloned skill allows a rotation with 20 seconds of channel for 10 seconds of downtime, it is a rather boring type of playstyle and can lose relevance later on as those skills need time to be effective and stronger skills can do more with less.


Conclusion

Psychokino is a class that is at the edge, it’s good enough to be enjoyable and useful yet it never feels complete. With skills such as Telekinesis, Teleportation and Swap, even tho those lasts two have use, it is hard to have a consistent kit where points feel well spent even when the class is taken at its final stage. It’s also ironic that the most useful skill gets an updated version at the end but also can’t be ignored as it is required to reach the circle in the first place, and as much no one is forced to take both skills the class has either hurdles or skills that aren’t interesting enough to even make players question. There’s been a recent change on it to give extra damage towards Mutants and despite being nice it isn’t something that relevant to be taken in consideration, a bonus can’t make up for design issues.

C 1 C 2 C 3
Identity D B C
Theme B C C
Gameplay E C C
Cohesion D B B
Point Distribution D C D
Dropout D B A

The discussion doesn’t end up here. If you haven’t read Cryomancer’s and Pyromancer’s go take a look at the overall points at least as those are shorter to read and going deep on skills isn’t that necessary, it’s too much to ask to read all them so if you’re already aware of the classes just skip to the end.

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Before starting the it i’d like to put a small disclaimer. This isn’t the usual Design Breakdown as the point itself isn’t to take only the classes but also how they relate with their siblings, for ToS it is way harder to have classes that compete in certain fields as players have to chose between class A, B or sometimes even a C and for this matter i’m taking three classes that have entangle in gameplay and identity, this doesn’t mean other less alike classes are free from those issues.

My whole point here will be to bring the discussion up more than having those three bare to their bones, for that i ask you guys to bring your thoughts on the matter instead of taking only the classes. I also plan to make other twin clashes as well for this same reason but they won’t use this same structure as each one has different convergent points and some may differences to be pointed as well.

Non related - A poetry of Ice and Fire

Before we start the real discussion it felt like it could be interesting to do some mentions on both Cryomancer and Pyromancer design as they have an unique relationship. From start their identities are polar opposites as one focus on consistent damage and the other goes for mob control, this carries over on how they’re played and even with their themes which guarantees they’ll have unique values and shouldn’t clash with each other.

When we get into their kits is where the things start to get interesting, every single skill has a counterpart tailored over the identity and it feels completely different. That can be why some skills were redesigned to fit this duality as they lost valuable components for questionable reasons. As for the “special mode” we have two skills that prevent any skill usage during its execution and can be directed around at will.

Small Radius on Enemy Ice Bolt Fireball
Large Radius on Ground Ice Pike Flame Ground
Wall (damage on touch) Ice Wall Fire Walll
Debuff Oriented Damage Ice Blast Flare
Pillar (damage and control) Frost Pillar Fire Pillar
Self Buff Enchant Fire Subzero Shield
Special Mode Snow Rolling Hell Breath

The real beauty on this form of design is how those classes complement each other and if played together can make the most use of their counterpart, that’s something that other ranks can’t achieve and it’s what solidifies this duo as a perfect placement. Anyway, let’s get into the real discussion.


Intersections

At this point many may question why those classes were picked for a trio clash as they’re distinct enough from each other, and the truth is they really are but at the same time any change on them can disrupt the balance. It can sound as an exaggeration but please bear along with it so then you can get your own conclusions. For starters let’s review their identities and playstyle.

Pyromancer - Deals damage over time and deploys magic on the terrain.
Cryomancer - Stop enemies on their current location without the need of being in close range.
Psychokino - Moves enemies around and deals damage over time.

When we take only the rank 2 classes the design line is great as they’re aim for different goals but once we get Psychokino to the following rank the dynamic is weakened, this is due Psychokino being right in the middle of both classes on identity and partially on gameplay. At the end of the day Cryomancer is a control class and having it to get enemies stuck where they are isn’t as different to get enemies stuck into another place, in fact the perceived identity of Psychokino is more into general control as the movement aspect can be overlooked easily over the output its skills provide. As the game allows you to go back to previous classes it doesn’t make sense to have a hybrid class of the former rank, if so would it be allowed to be better than the specialized one at it own job or does it have to be worse than both and be the third wheel.

One argument that can be used in favor of those classes to be more distinct is how each one uses a different element but in ToS that isn’t much of a deal, for a game to have an elemental system it needs a fair range of skills to cover each one of them or few skills with enough availability to have elements as a strategic part in the game. Instead of the usual tactical use the approach here is to have a small bonus and penalty as that fits the game structure better, such is the fact that instead of having high values as 50% or 100% we have only 25% and that is more friendly for builds that lack elemental diversity.

As a matter of fact Psychokino needs some improvement as the base kit is at best clunky and weak at worst and to address it some concessions will be required on it and its siblings as well, the next part will show some issues regarding class identity that are present right now even at this fragile balance state.


Trespassing

Any Design Breakdown starts with an introduction and has a link redirect to an older thread about class design, there i point the concept of Relief skills and why they are important but one thing isn’t addressed properly and that is trespassing.

The role of Relief skills, and that also include Midgrounds, is to present something that doesn’t follow the class playstyle so others can have an option when exiting it. Sometimes players will seek a class for one of two basic skills that are required to their build but they don’t really want to dwell into what the class does and in this scenario it is important to have a completely different thing to pick, the issue tho is how to make it out of the class identity without going into another class identity territory. That’s something hard to avoid and many classes have skills that trespass their fellows but to allow that is to diminish class value, but even if it can’t be avoided it can at least be controlled and reduced.

Pyromancer, Cryomancer and Psychokino have at least one trespassing skill on each other identity and we’ll get into every single one along with some options for them but before we get into it let’s take in mind a new identity component for Psychokino, closure. Psychic Pressure, Telekinesis and Gravity Pole are skills that lock movement and this is an interesting element to be used in concessions.

Flame Ground x Heavy Gravity x Frost Pillar

Those are all skills that have a significant duration and deal damage on enemies on the ground, Flame Ground is at rank 2 while the others are at rank 4. For placement it is reasonable for Frost Pillar to deal damage over time as it is a final circle skill but as matter of fact the damage component is new and isn’t part of the core identity of the skill, in fact the skill could be as effective if it had another powerful component that isn’t related to damage.

When we put both Flame Ground and Heavy Gravity side by side they be taken as reskin and despite the second one be able to hit flying enemies and remove this same property it doesn’t translate to the gameplay feel. Going back to the Flame Ground section i’ve pointed how it can work with a the old circle size and expands over time ending at the current area and that can feels natural for a fire skill, not to say it can regain the ranged cast, gives it an unique feature and is more aligned with a rank 2 power level, which can be enough to widen the gap between skills. On Heavy Gravity side, if the Flame Ground changes apply, it can have the area location changed to the caster and have duration increased by taking small restriction, terminate the skill if the user exits the circle. When talking about game design we need to have in mind that taking away power is as important as improving a skill if that benefits the whole in the long term, yet that doesn’t mean there aren’t other solutions.

Fire Pillar x Frost Pillar x Raise

These are the long duration heavy control skills, each one is a rank appart and following the order takes 3, 4 and 5 as for circle goes as 2, 3 and 3. The irony here is that the earliest skill, from the only class that doesn’t have control as part of the identity, is the one that plays out more effectively on the control side with 10 seconds of inescapable fake stun, has that effect available from level 1, it also deals a lot of damage and has the lowest cooldown. It is unacceptable for a skill at a rank and circle placement as low as Fire Pillar to be the best with less commitment and the easiest way to address it is by cutting down the duration in half at least and compensate it on damage.

That leads to it to Frost Pillar and Raise which is a really one of the most awkward comparisons to do. Both skills have the same duration scaling but the first deals damage, can be used from far, doesn’t have a target limitation and is a rank earlier in the wizard tree, not to say that Raise does follow the class identity but happens that the execution clashes with the natural identity of Cryomancer. A way to have that sorted out is by giving a new component to Raise that can be used as the leveling improvement but that may not be enough to get it, for another alternative the skill can be downgraded to c2 keeping the same duration formula but require the user to be inside the skill to keep it active and so reach up to 15 seconds of control.

Psychic Pressure x Hell Breath x Gravity Pole

All channeling skills, this time at ranks 3, 4 and 5 for circles 1, 3 and 3. Regarding Psychic Pressure and Hell Breath the relationship they have is healthy, both can be redirected at will but the later can ignore some damage and has way more range but when Gravity Pole joins the discussion it gets weird.

Gravity Pole has the same range as Hell Breath but cannot be redirected and doesn’t has a bind component yet they aren’t as far on damage, cooldown nor SP cost which are the least important elements to be taken in consideration. The fact is, when Hell Breath is being used it protects the user by negating damage and while Gravity Pole does that preemptively which means the fire one is slightly ahead. Here there’s few that easy changes that can be done to realign those skills as Gravity Pole seems to be a more of an image from the past Psychokino’s days than a skill itself.

Snow Rolling x Pyromancer x Psychokino

Snow Rolling is the ultimate trespasser, it is a damage over time skill that moves enemies at will in ways that Psychokino would only dream of. The issue tho is how it scales on every single element it can and turns itself into a snowballing skill, scales are an important element when analysing a skill and having certain components to be improved with level tell a lot about their nature. For Snow Rolling having the number of targets increased with level is a sign it tries to move more and more enemies when invested, while the additional duration and damage says it wants to crush enemies as it can. The issue tho is that changing this skill can be a dangerous game as it is one of the few functional fun skills that players love and is also one of the most iconic Cryomancer spells, yet something should be changed here to let it be less invasive.


I’d expect that some will question both Heavy Gravity and Raise nerf suggestions at this point and for that the only thing to be said is that as a toll for being a hybrid class Psychokino needs a weakness that isn’t present on the previous classes and it can be something that incorporates into the gameplay rather than playing with numbers. It’s even ironic and poetic to have this weakness as the own class identity yet it fits the class structure as to move one the other has to stop, it’s something that isn’t explore in the wizard tree as even melee classes can hit and run and that’s an opportunity to do it.


The whole point to get this out is to show that even when we get classes to a vacuum chamber as most Design Breakdowns are done they can still carry issues beyond themselves and classes that entangle into their close ranks can do great harm.

And that’s how we end this first, and hopefully only, trio breakdown. As usual drop comments on impressions and takes on those classes designs along with any kind of correction as i that is the best kind of interaction someone can provide, dropping a like also helps to show the support for the series and suggestions (even about what class to cover) are always welcome. There will be some change of plans for the following weeks, as this was really tiring i’ll do something different between Canooneer and Fencer + Matador.

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Everyone knows or should know of my love fpr Psycho…

It’s my main build and first class I went into…

I have been a Psyhokino sine the very start…


I have seen the rise and fall of all it skills and the changes for worse and good…

I like the idea of Rise + Graviy pole increased dmg…

its a common psychic attack to rise and drop an enemy into the ground, but that kind of steps on the telekinesis skill as it would do the same but to multiple enemies at one… something anyone with telek wish it could do…

What kills swap is that it has to be targeted through terrain and it sucks at that if the terrain isn’t even or there are gaps, that’s why teleport is superior…

I disagree that teleport is just a gimmick as someone that takes pride in it mastery of the skill, I have to tell you that the skill can be controlled and can let you achieve things not even the devs though about :wink: and the same goes for magnetic force…

You can truly fly through maps and set yourself in advantage positions with the right input press…

that been said, Descriptions suck and needing a mastery of the Psycho ways shouldn’t be a good thing as it scare away anyone thinking about the class and leaves lot of people that brute force their way through it…

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When i said to combine skills i mean to give Teleportation the Swap targeting if you hold the skill key instead of tapping it, this can add more places angles to teleport and increase the skill value as distance is hard to track and doesn’t feel like a real improvement and that’s when having Swap imbued makes a difference.

the problem is that the targeting is grounded, if it was independent of walk-able cells and just canceled if used on empty space…

then it would be ok to have it target-able…

but right now it would take too long to teleport/swap on uneven terrains and gaps…

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I actually like the magnetic force this way, the delayed effect of dealing damage. A delayed damage effect like this creates opportunities to increase the damage of the skill before it even deals damage. There’s a reason why IMC gave the skill a hefty 1500+% when maxed out at level10. It combos nicely with the initial rank1 and 2 in the wizard tree, namely wizard 2 , cryo1 or pyro1.

For Wizard’s 2 case we are looking at Dream Eater attribute which increases magic damage of non-elemental spells. Try casting sleep on the area before the monsters collide from the magnetic force pull.

Cryomancer’s case requires the usage of Hydra cards, with the use of Ice Pike (almost same hit area as Magnetic force), one can freeze the monsters right before pulling them in. This allows the bonus damage from hydra cards to kick in for the collision damage.

Pyromancer spells such as Fire Pillar pairs up really well with Magnetic force. The M.F will pull the monsters in and the pillar will keep them locked into position for a Fireball + PP combo.

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My point there is how this movement staggering effect feels off when it doesn’t deal damage, that’s why i pointed out (mobility) shock as an option to make it look more fluid and keep the same effect. That’s more of a nitpick than a real issue.

you could see it as the psychokino paralyzing it targets before grouping them together…

a similar skill can be seen on the star wars force unleashed games…

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