WARNING - This thread isn’t made for new players or those that seek guidance on how to use said class, please look for proper threads regarding it such as class overviews and build guides. Design Breakdown is a design discussion thread only and has no purpose to help players on practical aspects of the game.
Starting another Design Breakdown with a long delayed twin clash, this time the contenders are Fencer and Matador as the two Rapier classes yet that won’t be as relevant to the discussion. In case this is your first time on a Design Breakdown topic go to this link for some basic information.
Fencer - RANK 6 - ATTACK
“The Fencer class makes use of the Rapier weapon to rapidly hit successive strikes on their enemy.”
As usual class descriptions don’t capture all of it, the weapon choice and speed factors do check but a core element of fencer identity is the ability to negate incoming attacks and striking back after or during the enemy offense. Some may argue that Fencer identity is of a swift critical oriented one but i don’t see it as that and that will be explained later on.
The theme behind Fencer is the sport that carries the same name, it consists in a duel competition where each swordsmen has to hit the opponent without being touched which is signalized by the referee saying “touche”. Within fencing there are three modalities that uses different swords that are Epee, Foil and Sabre and also have different hit zones as the whole body, torso and upper body respectively, the rules change from each modality but it’s possible for both to get points if hit simultaneously. However the sport was based a written record of swordsmanship that uses the term fencing, this book has teachings on the use of Rapier as in combat and later led to the modern sport.
Despite popular belief Rapiers are as heavy as regular one handed swords, the major difference between them is that they’re thrust focused, still being able to cut, as the blade is thinner and also the more elaborated guard on the handle that is considerably heavier and changes the weapon balance. Some say Rapier’s that thin blade was designed to pierce through full plate as few weapons would be effective against it, however it wouldn’t bend in thin air as modern fencing weapons do, and it’s speculated that the rise in popularity of such weapon contributed for the sport as men would duel to settle some disagreements.
One point i’d like to address here is how having a Rapier equipped changes the attack stance and it references professional fencing and when offhand is out of picture it looks fine, the issue tho is when shields come into it looks stupid. The point of fencing stance have the unused arm back is to have less exposed areas available to be hit and when you have an equipment which the purpose is to take hits it should be closer to the body instead of being at as far as possible, that’s the least effective way to fight regardless of chosen weapon.
Lunge (B) - Lead
In fencing Lunge is a thrust executed by propelling the body with the back foot without moving it, this movement extends the reach forward and allow the user to return to the previous position easily. Technically only the last strike could be considered a Lunge, it’s likely that the first two strikes were added to give the visual of professional fencing and they can trick the viewer if it doesn’t observes it closely. It may look like the skill name doesn’t follow up the naming method of the class but the word Lunge is the same for both english and french.
For Lunge to be ever useful it must hit, the evasion bonus only applies if the skill hits at least one target and also comes with a slash empowering debuff. Having an evasion bonus is nice but as the execution already takes part of its duration it doesn’t feel like it makes any impact, it’s possible to increase the out of execution time with attack speed yet 4 second is fairly low and the cooldown with no overheat doesn’t help either. There’s not much use within the class for the slash debuff, which value and duration aren’t informed, but it has potential for outside synergy.
Here it would be interesting to have the buff applied without duration for the skill execution and then a timed version after finished, or just give it an overheat.
Sept Etoiles (A) - Relief
Sept Etoiles mean seven stars and, according to dev blog, was named due the quick successive thrusting nature of the attack. Ironically this skill hits 8 times with no apparent reason to do so and could have damage redistributed, along with one hit less on the animation, to fit the name better but that isn’t that much of a deal. Speaking of animation this is one of the best looking melee attacks in the game and part of that is due the last blow as the hand moves the rapier to the side signaling the end of the technique.
As a relief skill Sept Etoiles is perfect, it makes use of both attack speed and critical as each hit can do a critical strike individually and those stats complement the evasive nature of the class. By making it as multi hit it also can hit multiple enemies as it kills those in front and also comes with 2 overheats as full package. It’s also a satisfying skill to use but may be a little undertuned on damage to be as impactful as it could, yet it’s about the right spot for what it is within the class.
Attaque Coquille (C) - Complement
An attack executed by using the weapon bellguard (the hand protection), it seems that in modern fencing the use of such attack isn’t allowed by rules yet it can be a valid attack on a real duel. The efficiency of it is questionable as most of fencing techniques have more or have some defensive value.
Attaque Coquille is simple debuff that makes pierce ignore defense, which value isn’t informed, for a short duration that increases with skill level, due the natural low duration and cooldown it’s often taken at refresh level or slightly above it since it doesn’t add much aside that. At this point it should be obvious that the skill itself doesn’t have much value and there’s few things to be done that could indeed improve it, however even if changed it isn’t a skill that is impressive looking and can feel unsatisfying to play with if made good.
Esquive Toucher (E) - Midground
The rough translation of this skill is “evade touch” which is the base of fencing as a sport, in this matter the skill had a lot of artistic freedom and went for a complex sequence of movements and visually it is fairly impressive.
Esquive Touche is the slowest skill in Fencer’s kit, it isn’t clear how the extra evasion comes into the play as it isn’t seen at the stat window yet the buff is present during the whole execution and that isn’t clear from the skill. By negating attack speed the skill breaks the flow of the class and can’t even be taken out quickly, also by having percentage evasion it feels like a natural skill for DEX users yet it falls flat by being slow. Also, by not having a floor the skill has a harder entry point and it contributes to make it lackluster in all levels.
If the idea is to keep the skill with a fixed execution time it could be interesting to give it additional hits based on user’s attack speed, there’s not a single skill that does that and it can make up for the slow execution.
Flanconnade (E) - Counter Lead
According to the dictionary it is a fencing term defined by a bind that is terminated with a thrust under the opponent arm, in french it can be a derivation of flank or flanking. The motion used here is of a parry that deflects on both sides, it may be questionable to call it a Flanconnade but that’s something fencers can clarify. Regardless, the animation communicates what the skill does effectively and is quite good looking.
Flanconnade may be one of the most important skills in Fencer’s kit, it can evade physical attacks during its animation while dealing damage and seems to use a different method, opposed to Lunge and Esquive Toucher, as isn’t informed any value yet seldom fails. The issue tho is that it’s a skill that isn’t interesting to level at all as the defensive effect is there from start and leveling it up increases the SP cost, even tho it also adds more damage to it, and settles it as one point only skill if even taken. We can’t also forget that Flanconnade has 5 overheats and this is a scary feature to be available that cheap, it’s also counter productive thing it does is to take attack speed for the animation and also shortening up the parry effect, it seems like it can still have some protection past the animation and that feels shady. It’s also possible that Flanconnade can act as a niche damage skill taking the slash damage bonus from Lunge but as the class supports Pierce damage way more it doesn’t seem interesting at all.
There’s no easy way to address it, in fact it may be better to rework it as a feature the class has instead of a skill itself such as a C action for empty offhand or be usable with a stance. In some ways this could be worth of a c3 skills given the deserved importance to it and a better leveling factor than raw damage, however it can also be a huge loss to have it out of c1 as the sole presence is enough to make the rank sustain itself.
It’s rare to have a class that has 3 skills that dwells into the identity straight up and still come with a complement, however with Esquive Toucher being fixed it falls flat on the playstyle. The skill point distribution could be acceptable but the way Attaque Coquille is designed support Flanconnade perfectly taking 5 points and the remaining skills can compete for remaining ones and Esquive Toucher gets the shorter stick. It would be more beneficial to have one skill ranked up with some small changes but at the current state this isn’t an option.
One interesting glitch present here is the ability to interrupt Lunge and Esquive Toucher animation with other skills, however the character will be stuck for their respective execution times.
Attaque Composee (D) - Relief
Meaning ‘compound attack’, Attaque Composee is an attack that succeeds a feint, it isn’t exclusive to fencing and can be employed on other weapon combats and martial arts. It may be obvious but the intent of a compound attack is to deceive the enemy and slow it down to get an opening and strike, this isn’t really taken into the skill aside for the animation.
Attaque Composee is a fine skill, it works for a relief, even tho it is overloaded on overheats, but also brings nothing to the table aside raw damage. It isn’t that desirable to have a pure relief at c2 specially when the precious rank has 5 skills already and Sept Etoiles is a perfectly executed relief and looks way more impressive. On the other side of the skill it doesn’t interact with enemies aside for raw damage and that makes it lose the thematic value completely.
In order for it to be worth the name it would have to get some sort of attack cancel or disabling effect, even as short as half a second, before the strike dealing bonus damage if countering. Of course any change of that impact would require it to have overheats taken and damage redistributed but at least it makes it more interesting than a spam damage button. Going for an even crazier direction it can be a skill that requires the enemy to dodge to be used or that cancels an ongoing skill and accumulates damage in its attack, but none seem really practical.
Preparation (C) - High Lead
Here we have a stand by defensive movement that can be used to deceive the opponent reading on the next action and also start the offensive motion quickly, i can’t say for sure if this is indeed a fencing move or strategy but this is present within media.
The idea behind Preparation is to present a slow counter skill in two stages, the first one is an obnoxious block channel that can prevent almost all physical damage directed to the caster and is followed up for a double damage buff on the next pierce attack and that is great. However many ignore the first component of the skill and only tap it for the damage bonus, it is good to have this option but the skill could reward the defensive use a little more as well since it immobilizes the user and prevents it to deal damage for the whole channel. Preparation also overscales with duration and block rate but having it to last up to 8 seconds isn’t really needed, also having the cooldown to start at the end of channel makes it worse as a defensive skill and gives the feel it takes longer to be available as well.
A good way to promote the defensive use of it is to apply a debuff that decreases enemy stats when their attacks are blocked, perhaps critical resistance or evasion. This addition improves the counter attack nature of Fencer and doesn’t penalizes those that go for quick damage. It’s also possible to have channelling time fixed and remove the double damage from basic attacks and/or skills that apply debuffs, even if with attribute, as the current iteration can get unwanted skills to consume the buff.
This circle isn’t exactly bad but it also doesn’t feel satisfying, Preparation is a good skill that has a broad range of uses but doesn’t offer any reward for defending at all and despite that already being an incentive it can be skipped as earlier skills already provide protection and also deal damage during the process. As for Attaque Composee it has nothing to do with damage mitigation nor counter attacking and just adds raw power with a lot of overheats, none of the previous circles offer that much offense which makes it acceptable in a way.
Balestra Fente (C) - Relief
In fencing balestra is a hop that can be used forward or backwards, for fente however it is tricky as all information points out to be the same as lunge and therefore this would be a lunge with a hop and that’s exactly what we see in the skill animation.
It’s interesting to have a short mobility skill in an evasive class but that has nothing to do with protection. Balestra Fente is useful due its critical resistance debuff but should be available early on to be as effective, it’s also one of the few skills that Fencer for crowd fighting and that’s also too late to make up for the class weaknesses. Nothing here really connects to what the class was really building up for the past circles but at least it has a debuff slightly connected to the expected stat distribution.
Attaque au Fer (D) - Relief
This can be taken as a whole category of attacks which the goal is take down the opponent weapon, this can be done by disarming it or hitting it in a way the sword will bend and lose its functionality.
If it weren’t for the disarm component Attaque au Fer could be easily skipped, even tho the effect duration is fixed. On the theme side this is a great addition to the class yet i has nothing to do with its identity. Lastly it’s interesting to point out that this is the only direct single hit skill the class has and it does makes justice to it.
Epee Garde (C) - Complement
Taking what the skill does and its name it would be expected for it to be the default Epee combat stance, which longer and heavier type of fencing foil, as in fencing the user has only one arm that plays in combat and the off hand stays behind. This is further addressed by having the shield defense lifted and the model absent for the whole buff duration.
The idea behind Epee Garde isn’t of all bad. It increases critical damage of pierce attacks by half, which is a byproduct of DEX that is the recommended stat, however as the leveling factor is duration it is bound to be maxed in all scenarios. Again we get another skill that doesn’t takes the identity but lies at the edge of the edge to make into the class.
On the few changes that it could receive to accommodate low to mid, which is kinda addressed by taking duration, and one approach is to add evasion into the mix as a leveling component and make duration fixed at all levels. Due the skill nature it could as well being a stance or even an attribute triggered in absence of offhand equipment or shield.
Flash/Fleche (E) - Relief
Fleche is an attack that takes the whole body weight for a decisive strike, it can be done straight forward or after a lunge which grats it extra distance. Here the execution focus the movement by getting the body close to the ground while stretching forward which justify the extra attacks as it can sustain the balance.
This is just another damage skill, it has no special conditions to increase damage nor any special interaction.
As a starting warning this circle will be polemic and that’s because the circle is completely out of alignment, this doesn’t make the circle bad but it isn’t really connected with what have been promoted so far. Instead of keeping the same defense and strike identity the circle turns out and shoves down a critical based playstyle that is nowhere seen, not to discredit it as the class is being built over Evasion that is provided by DEX and the offensive counterpart of it is Critical Attack but if it were the case it should have been present earlier. This kind of shift is the same as getting a completely new class on the present rank which is something that can be done using the class system by itself, there’s no need to do this when finishing a class.
We also can’t ignore that it comes with 4 full point new skills, that’s more points to use than then you get for the circle and by default and even Preparation capped at level 5 doesn’t help it, and any higher circle skill tends to be better than lower circles, it’s just unbelievable that this was allowed. The point distribution can be easily concentrated at circle 2 and 3 and leave only 15 points for c1 which is a full maxed skill, even when Preparation isn’t maxed it’s enough to allow Attaque Coquille to be taken at refresh time and max a basic skill. Aside for Epee Garde no other skill has an effect that couldn’t be incorporated as attribute for lower circle skills and if we take a closer look none of the skills has any utility attribute at all.
Conclusion
Fencer isn’t a bad class but is poorly designed, it has too many skills in it without a reason aside possible lack of synergy on precious ranks. Skills like Flanconnade and Attaque Composee have 5 overheats and are under 10 seconds cooldown along with Attaque Coquille yet the class has 7 more active skills and a buff, any class that needs 11 skills to operate clearly needs some attention. It’s easily possible to have Balestra Fente delivered as Lunge attributes, one for the forward charge and other for the critical resistance debuff, and the disarm component as a Sept Etoiles attribute for the last hit, those two are enough to expand the point distribution within the class. One of the things that make Fencer distinguish from others is how it has a playstyle that rewards precise timed inputs with protection and that’s why the last circle falls off in the identity.
A crazy approach possible within Fencer theme is the usage of one or more stances that have a simple bonus effect and also change both Z and C attack while taking out the shield, as happens on Epee Garde. Flanconnade and Attaque Coquille are good candidates for C attack as they are virtually impossible to balance out without a major skill revamp, yet their effects are interesting enough to not have them removed completely. As a small exercise we can have a stance that has the base effect of Epee Garde, Attaque Composee as Z attack with lower damage factor (only taking animation and extra hit) and Attack Coquille for C attack but with a small cooldown and fixed duration. This doesn’t mean having stances would fix the class but the possibilities are out there.
There’s nothing wrong with having a class which identity is to be critical oriented but it has to be present these elements in the previous circles, some can argue that the class identity is to be DEX oriented but that is more of a direction over an identity as it’s way more broad than a specific element that the class excels. That’s also an issue when these said critical related elements are isolated into the last circle as they could be present since start and also lift up the last circle as something optional instead of obligatory.
| C 1 | C 2 | C 3 | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Identity | A | B | E |
| Theme | B | B | B |
| Gameplay | C | B | C |
| Cohesion | C | C | E |
| Point Distribution | D | D | E |
| Dropout | B | C | B |
As any duo breakdown go check Matador in case you haven’t already or scroll down for the class clash as we’ll see where those class diverge and where they overlap.
