WARNING - This thread isn’t made for new players or those that seek guidance on how to use said class, please look for proper threads regarding it such as class overviews and build guides. Design Breakdown is a design discussion thread only and has no purpose to help players on practical aspects of the game.
Starting an updated Design Breakdown with an unusual class for RPGs, taken from late medieval times as the ones that had twice the gains for double the risk - Doppelsoeldner. In case this is your first time on a Design Breakdown topic go to this link for some basic information.
From this paragraph itself the identity aimed is of a betting glass cannon and this is a crazy direction for a class which the whole tree is bound to melee, however the class also have another interpretation as short range multi hit fighter which is overall more fitting and it will be the one we’ll take for the analysis. As the stated identity is more interesting it will have some mentions here and there for skills that could be aligned to it, not to mention it fits the theme more. A fair share of Doppelsoeldner’s skills are real two handed weapon techniques and this will be an important element to take when analysing its theme, as such animations will be more important than usual.
There’s few free information about Doppelsoldners out there but the name is a combination of two german words as Doppel “double” and Soldner “mercenary”, it is unlikely but some point out that the second part means “pay/paid” but when you take in consideration that mercenaries are paid warriors with no governamental bounds both fit in. Doppelsoldners veteran soldiers that had double the payment in to fight in the vanguard, some sources point out that those mercenaries would also fight with ranged weapons such as crossbow yet their two handed swords became more iconic to it. An interesting trivia about the class crest is a battle banner with the germanic coat of arms “Bundesadler” that dates from 800’s, this is probably the oldest military symbol of the country and is still referenced to this day.
Tier 1
Deeds of Valor (B) - Complement
A main element of the class theme, Doppelsoldners were seen as elite mercenaries and as they had price of two man it would be expected that they be worth of at least two or three soldiers. There’s some liberty on this design but it takes the risk and manpower components that are within its theme.
Being one of the few buffs in game with drawback and this is what separates it from traditional selfish sustained buffs, at the same time players get more power from skill they become more vulnerable as well yet this rewards both offensive investment as defensive investment in a possible scenario where the drawback itself can be nullified by good gear. It’s odd for it to use traditional components on execution, the sole presence of a drawback makes it not be wanted all the time which is addressed by a shorter duration than the average buff but that can also be bothersome in instances where it is desired to last long.
A more appropriate approach on this execution is how it is done to helmets as they have a toggle application with a not so short cooldown, in this case it is possible to give it infinite duration and have players to manage when they want or not the buff consuming SP in the process. The average player would need to juggle the damage boost, extra vulnerability and SP management all at the same time or bet that one of those parts won’t fail on a critical scenario, of course that the ability to outresist damage can kill this interaction but as it demands a lot of investment and armor will always have one weakness, plate being magic, cloth being physical and leather being any damage, it will be hard to be completely mitigated, not to mention armor bypass will hit harder regardless.
Punish (B) - Chain
Hitting an enemy on ground with a final blow used to be seen as mercy in the old days, some may see it as a cowardly move as others perceive it as a valid attack in warfare.
Punish always had one of the most interesting concepts in game as it deals with one specific condition to be able to deal damage, however the class itself lost the ability to provide such condition as Mordschlag was removed leaving the Bash as the only easy way to execute it. On that verge it could be better to have the cooldown and SP cost to be significantly low as the skill itself is impossible to be used on its own. One thing to consider is having a damage multiplier or additional critical chance based on strike precision or missing HP.
Sturtzhau (C) - Relief
There are two major interpretations on Sturtzhau, also known as plunge cut, and both state it as a feint attack or deflect attack followed up with a thrust, the first variation has the swordsman to use the feint momentum to set up the thrust as the second one is has the blade to be maneuvered before a full swing and such avoid a sword bind. As for the skill the animation is a single diagonal cut with a rough particle that sells the attack as a dry cut more in the line of an oberhauw.
A major merit of Sturtzhau is how it states how much defense it bypasses straight from start and when you factor along the six hits it has for a quick execution it isn’t surprising that the skill is deadly. It’s also interesting to point out that this component doesn’t improve with level and as such prevents it to overscale as the damage itself already increases, however that also means that a stronger bypass could be taken as leveling component instead of additional damage. Without the follow up expected from a Sturtzhau technique it feels off for it to not have a second part in animation and damage, in fact it’s even worse as combo mechanics were introduced in Zornhau, Redel and Zucken as, and ironically Sturtzhau is a follow up of it along oberhauw.
Due the theme it isn’t fitting for it to be a risky skill at all and any element added on this direction would be clunky at best, however the skill could be used as a block breaker since the real move is a feint. It would be expected to change it into a thrust tho but that would weaken the skill synergy within the class and that wouldn’t be enjoyable at all.
Zornhau(C) - Relief
A Zornhau is an attack that has the sword over the shoulder and slashes forward to the opponent chest in a diagonal motion, there’s also another interpretation on the attack by having it to swing backwards first for a full cut to the ground but many see it as a buffalo attack that wastes energy and is too much telegraph. It’s interesting that the skill animation uses the refined version, which is can deal quite some damage, but it’s sells out power as if it were a buffalo, if it weren’t for that the Shock aspect of it wouldn’t really connect.
Before Re:Build Zornhau was a skill that could be easily skipped as its only value was to apply shock and increases other skills damage however as the skill is the starting point of a combo that has the first follow up skill that has bonus damage with shock it gained a place to be. The issue with the combo execution is how it puts Zornhau as an obligatory start rather than rewarding players for using it, on one side it allows the sequential skills to have low cooldown but at the same time has them unavailable without it or Zwerchhau’s attribute. Another way to implement a combo system, maintaining the starting move characteristic of Zornhau, is by changing the interaction from a required step to modify how the next executed skill is performed, the core element of a combo is to connect skills in a fluid way and on that matter control of speed is more interesting than damage itself. If Zornhau had the ability to speed up the next skill animation or cut the starting part completely it would execute its role without binding skills to it, this will reward players that know how to use their skills in combos and free the other components to be used at will. In this case it would be possible to give it overheats or take it to a low cooldown, on this matter those follow up skills can be the ones with longer cooldown.
If it were for Zornhau to be realigned with the risk identity it could make use of the buffalo variant as a way to charge up more power, this can be supported as telegraphed attacks would be useless in real combat as most hits are lethal and the additional power could be wasted as the opponent can strike for all the additional execution time. However in games this isn’t much of an issue as the user can indeed take and endure attacks for an even stronger blow, it is possible to have the current effect by tapping the skill and also charge it up for additional damage which is a perfect way to have risk and power applied to a skill.
Zucken (D) - Midground
Zucken can be translated in many ways which include pulling, withdrawing and twitching. The movement requires a sword bind, that may be started by a Zornhau, so it the swordsman can move the blade upwards to escape the bind and then deliver a lethal slash, as the main targets Zucken can be used against the opponent’s wrist, shoulder and neck which all are likely to end the combat if hits. Zucken is often grouped with Durchwechsel as both moves are follow up to sword binds depending on which direction it’s exit, being upwards and downwards respectively, and the latter can be used over and over as long as a sword bind happens, thus if the opponent blocks a the strike it can be done again in a possible never ending cycle, in theory this can also be applied to Zucken if blocked or deflected. The way Zucken requires a Zornhau works as a simplification of the technique but if the goal is to follow the source it should be the final blow rather than having Redel as follow up.
Extra damage towards shock enemies is enough of an interesting element but its special role is to connect Zornhau and Redel in a single sequence, it can be amazing when fully executed but it’s also limited as cannot be used on its own. As the theme dilema cannot be solved under the current game mechanics it is impossible to capture the essence of Zucken but there is an alternative to play in Block, ideally either having damage significantly amplified after an enemy blocks successfully or guarantee Zucken to be critical and/or not blocked after it.
If Zucken were meant to be taken in a risk situation then the execution can be done as if a rampage attack that cannot be stopped unless finished or have the user disabled, since block was changed to reduce damage Zucken could be a skill that operates with a minimum hitcount and gains an extra attack per hit blocked, up to a maximum hitcount. On this scenario the skill would be proven greatly effective against high block enemies and deals more damage despite each extra hit damage being halved, even then it can be more effective against crowds as only one enemy has to trigger the extension component as others will receive damage regardless. This direction can get two quality of life additions in having each block attack to restrain the blocker movement for a second and the final blow to ignore block, it isn’t an orthodox way to make a skill but it is something really unique that can be deadly for both sides under the right or wrong circumstances.
As a different and less awkward alternative for a more faithful Zucken the skill can use some sort of combo counter mechanic and have damage increased by the amount of 2h sword fencing techniques used before it, this way it can be the finishing move it is meant to be.
Redel (D) - Lead
It may be due the short name that can be misspelled and the questionable practical uses of Redel that made it harder to track down, the few sources that do mention it say it is a circular motion that maneuvers the point and has the blade in constant movement similar to a moulinet. By taking this description the animation really nails the technique and it also sells its power, it’s also interesting to point out that unlike Highlander’s Moulinet this skill is way more focused on the attack and has a consistent motion for every single hit.
Redel used to be the dullest skill in the class skill set as it was all straightforward but being part of a combo gave it some extra value, however as it requires a Zucken to be used it is questionable why it wasn’t integrated on it or removed. The sole fact it has two skill before it can reduce the use frequency of Redel considerably as enemies may die before it sets itself available and with no other combo option it cannot be used as an alternative. On this matter it is better to give it more starting options without Zucken or revert it as a standalone skill with some other interaction in combo or interest component.
For a riskier Redel it’s possible to have it as a channel and give it more hits with increasing speed over channel time, this provides power during the whole channel but rewards those that commit to the complete execution.
Tier 2
Zwerchhau (D) - Midground
Among the skills that had their source and execution mismatching this may be the one with the shorter stick, it could be that the current application is referenced somewhere but as far as sources point out this skill isn’t properly represented. The Zwerchhau technique is a horizontal cut executed with the handle in front of the swordsman head around that height level, it usually aims around the opponent head but can be used to hit the torso as well, and has always has a circular motion similar to a helicopter blade even tho the sword never spins for more than half a turn. We can see in its animation that the skill is performed at the hip height and has almost a full turn on its motion, despite not being really accurate it’s possible to lift of it as the technique has application on armed combat and this isn’t much of a deal in the game as players and monsters can’t parry attacks. Oddly the animation goes for a buffalo style attack opposed to the more refined skills presented in the previous skills, it does works as a power fantasy but can also feel out of place.
For Doppelsoeldner Zwerchhau is the big and quick swipe skill which in itself is quite a valuable trait, in addition to that the bleeding debuff does a good job to contribute with damage. That said this isn’t the major merit of this skill as a later attribute allows it to be used as the starting skill of Zucken-Redel combo but with more overheats, by not having shock it won’t amplify Zucken damage but will get Redel to be devastating as it has double damage towards bleeding enemies.
If it were for Zwerchhau to be a riskier skill it could make use of individual hits instead of the single gigantic sweep, by dividing the hits into three attacks it widens up the execution time letting the user exposed for longer. Along with that it’s possible to play with smaller hitboxes and increase the size for each subsequent attack in exchange for extra damage. Either case it fits the source material more as this technique can be used in subsequent attacks and counters.
Double Pay Earn (F) - Lead
The core of Doppelsoldner theme is earning double on battle for higher risk role, the difference however is that instead of being something that keeps up for the battle it is limited to few attacks only.
As the former version of Double Pay Earn was unreliable the current form is uninteresting. To have all income damage double is a big deal on its own but can be reasonable if the reward is up to the risk, however having looting chance to be the only benefit is beyond unreasonable. There are other skills that have the same effect but they not only do it better with less points but also have full availability and no drawback, having your safety to be on the line over a chance to get more equipment isn’t pure nonsense. To put salt on the injury the skill doesn’t have a floor at all and starts with a minimum buff for a huge risk, it presents itself as an all or nothing skill yet it deals with a random element that can result in nothing for the most time.
The minimum expected from Double Pay Earn is to provide double silver from enemies killed by the Doppelsoeldner even if that double generation doesn’t allow it to be go to party members, at the current state this should be an attribute for Deeds of Valor with an increment on the damage received.
Tier 3
Cyclone (B) - Lead
Nothing else can describe it better than deadly and goofy, there’s not much to say on the thematic aspect as it doesn’t seem like a practical skill to use at all and it has more disadvantages than merits against opponents that really know how to fight. The concept of a spinning swordsman became a staple within game media and due the class identity it felt right to be there.
Cyclone is a fun skill to use and fairly simple to grasp, it has some consistent damage quickly with some degree of risk, however the skill feels incomplete without the movement attribute and that should be a natural component of it. A better way to explore the risk factor the skill has is by increasing playing with execution time as the leveling factor instead of damage, it is possible to have the skill to have twice the duration at level 1 and the current duration when maxed but both sharing the same damage outcome as this alone can be used as a major deciding factor to players have more or less skills to rotate with and also the fact the skill can be disrupted by control effects.
The skill distribution in Doppelsoeldner isn’t the best, no skill is designed to push players into full commitment but the Zucken-Redel combo does set some cues on what to max from start and combining it to Deeds of Valor it takes easily up to 25 points. Of course for the combo to be started it requires either Zornhau or Zwerchhau (through attribute at level 350) for extra 11 to 15 points leading to a theoretical state of 36 compromised points, which 5 can be easily allocated on Cyclone. Of course none of this is really obligatory on the player part but is too attractive to be skipped and from the remaining options only Sturtzhau has a chance. On a personal level it is bothersome to have the combo skills available from start and capped at level 5 as this may be misleading to those that don’t know the class, however this is counterbalanced to be apar regular tier 1 skills.
As interesting as the combo structure is it doesn’t change the fact it can consume all points from tier 1 set and have it to be available based on Zornhau cooldown, any new player dealing with this will face issues as it takes the whole early point section in a single use. Regarding the proposed class identity the risk factor in Doppelsoeldner is mostly done through buffs and the slow execution of Zucken-Redel combo, in theory this can be enough as it has the character imobile for the whole duration but as a combo it is possible to drop out at different points with ease as the non used skills will also be non-spent SP. Buffs tackle this aspect more directly as they increase intake damage but that isn’t as interesting to play with as a sole game of numbers. All elements of risk were taken to the scout tree and Doppelsoeldner in the current state works better as a multi hit class than a spicy heavy hitter, there’s no problem with this direction as long as it stops being advertised as the latter tho this will not only turn it into a more generic class but will also lose thematic value, either way it is a more honest approach towards it.
Identity - C
Theme - D
Gameplay - B
Skill Distribution - D
Overall - D
This concludes Re:Doppelsoeldner, the only missing point in the class discussion was the weapon limitation but this will be ignored as new challenger approaches, one possibly being a candidate to match it. For next week we’ll take Onmyoji as a class with an amazing background that took an uninteresting direction for its potential.
