WARNING - This thread isn’t made for new players or those that seek guidance on how to use said class, please look for proper threads regarding it such as class overviews and build guides. Design Breakdown is a design discussion thread only and has no purpose to help players on practical aspects of the game.
Starting another Design Breakdown this time for a twin release of Highlander and Barbarian, as those classes share common themes and identities. For this breakdown i’ll add a reply for the twin clash so read the other breakdown before that. In case this is your first time on a Design Breakdown topic go to this link for some basic information.
Barbarian - RANK 3 - ATTACK
This description tells us that for Barbarians stepping on enemies is part of the job, it feels like the class is based on damage, control and diminishing enemies as this can be seen on its skill set. It’s considerably generic as an identity as any class can operate on those aspects.
Barbarian is a word that came from greek and was used to address any person or culture that wasn’t civilized as theirs, that was often used for tribal societies and even more advanced civilizations that had different cultural values, as such they weren’t a specific group nor had an unique culture. Once the roman empire conquered greece they took in their culture and knowledge, there was no other power that had the same training, tactics nor technology to match romans. This is how they took over europe as Barbarians couldn’t match their military and for romans it didn’t matter what underdeveloped cultures had, they were all the same.
The word was used for many different groups that often had some primitive behaviors, that may be the reason why we built this Barbarian myth, reckless brutal warriors that wore pelt if anything at all, as the word didn’t addressed a name but a quality. The fact is that Barbarians as we perceive today are a representation of the animal side humans possess, we can turn into violent beasts if power consumes us or if our survival is on the line.
Embowel (F) - Midground
The most savage skill this game ever had, stabs right through the enemy and kicks it away with no mercy as 300’s Leonidas, and that’s how you make a skill live for its theme.
It would be great if Embowel were as good as it is brutal, this whole setup doesn’t translate into the skill mechanics as the only special interaction is a small movement restriction on both parts till the animation is done. The skill itself is slow and clunky and having no overheats with an average damage doesn’t help it either, for some reason the skill not only hit multiple enemies but also adds AAR which kills the its whole fantasy.
To make it at least viable it needs some form of debuff to be applied or bonus damage when done by the enemy back, that may not be enough and speeding it up may turn it into one of those awkward skills that have no visual impact.
Stomping Kick (D) - Relief
When i said Barbarians would step on their enemies i wasn’t kidding, this skill takes that as the whole concept and doesn’t really sell it as the animation can’t truly convey the power it should have.
The major issue here is how clunky the Stomping Kick is as it freezes the character for a short duration after it lands, it does bounces up if the skill hits at least one enemy but it makes it even clunkier. Along with that the execution is questionable as it requires the user to jump and uses the height for extra damage, which the value isn’t informed, yet in usual scenario there won’t be many platforms in the map that can be used for it. As the best element on it is the small addition of boots defense which may increase the damage significantly, that again doesn’t inform the value, as it is empowered by anvils and transcendence.
Of all skills this would be the most likely to be replaced as it won’t fit any playstyle at all even if made fluid as the skill itself isn’t appealing nor fun.
Helm Chopper (A) - Counter Lead
Keeping the violence streak we have a straight up double hit on enemies head, it’s a shame the animation doesn’t live for it. Helm Chopper is a pretty solid skill on all aspects, it would be nice to have the stun duration on it tho.
Cleave (C) - Lead
The brutality here is only in name as the animation, again, doesn’t sell the strike.
Cleave is the best skill on its circle but not on its merit, instead it is overloaded with too many components while its counterparts are thirsty, Embowel in particular, for more power. From a single hit it can grant 50 critical rate for some time (that is 5s) and increase slash damage an unknown value (that is 50%) for an unlisted duration (that is 5s), it also deals bonus damage to stunned enemies which we don’t know the value as usual, for new players it is quite annoying to not know those numbers from start.
Having an extra damage against stunned enemies would be a nice move if it weren’t for the overload, it’s quite good to have a combo that can be performed with Helm Chopper but that could be done somewhere else. The best course of action is to transfer one of its elements to other skill as right now it steals all the spotlights, it may be nice to have some extra duration per level on a component as well.
With two clunky skills it’s hard to be satisfied with this circle, Helm Chopper and Cleave combo is good but they reduce Embowel and Stomping Kick value further and as this circle skills only have damage when leveled, with a small distinction as different property types, and obviously one of the worst ones will be out.
One great aspect of Barbarian tho is that no skill has weapon restrictions at all and as such can work with any build, also the basic skill set is decent for a filler class.
Warcry (C) - Complement
This is a technique that was employed to either boost morale the army or frighten enemies before the battle and was used by several groups through history, in fact it did evolved through time as the shouts were replaced my horns and later by instruments. As it is used here it takes the most primitive execution which fits a theme such as Barbarians, even tho the concept could be employed in other classes as easily. The animation and sound effect could be more intimidating tho as it doesn’t seem that threatening, but that can be explored with a special costume if that’s the case.
Warcry has some interesting elements bound to it, it works as a soft taunt, decreases 10% of enemies PDef and increases the user PAtk based on how many enemies were affected, that is also the only leveling factor on the skill. Even tho they allowed a huge gap from c2 to c3 as the target attribute can double the amount of enemies affected and as such it also doubles the PAtk obtained, not to forget that having 5 extra levels on it already increases that value.
At least on that matter the skill doesn’t have a scale with stats, yet that can also be a detriment.
Another important attribute Warcry has is the debuff duration extensor but it only applies when the skill is used, this is useful for party play but not that effective for personal use as the skill has a fairly long cooldown for it. The major use for it is bosses and by doing so it denies the PAtk from taking crowds, even when used properly the setup is adds another 1 or 2s to the package and in that time other classes may already be finishing the job.
Personally i think Warcry should distance itself from the buff part and focus more into being a crowd debuff as Frenzy already takes the attack steroid covered, that would also allow it to have shorted cooldown and take enable it as another taunt skill for those that won’t take shields nor rapiers.
Frenzy (E) - Complement
An iconic trait of the theme as some portrait Barbarians fury to give them power to defy even death, not that this later part is explored here.
Frenzy uses a stack system to build power over combat and the idea itself is quite good but it has two major flaws, the first one is the limitation to basic attacks only which prevents multi hit skills to generate Frenzy and the second one is the single target nature that clashes with the melee attack mechanic itself, that aspect is addressed at c3 with the maintain attribute but reduces the power outcome by half. Another issue the skill has is its short duration as it uses stacks, this kind of mechanic works with power building and maintenance and to make it worthy it has to be accessible and last long enough to reach its peak otherwise it will feel like a waste of time.
A way to address it is by dividing the power into smaller stacks in something about 2 to 10 times, then add a longer duration and allow skills to affect it as it opens up more strategies, and with both those out of the way it’s possible to remove completely the single target restriction and decrease the stacks one by one after being out of combat as the restriction factor. For the leveling factor it’s possible to change the focus on more power to a stack floor, with this method the skill will still be interesting to level but will have full efficiency at level 1, and so players can increase it for lower penalties.
Also stack buffs counters need to be fixed as they don’t update their values correctly but that may also be a local issue instead of a game glitch itself.
Seism (B) - High Lead
One of my favorite skills to be taken as example as one that has a fast animation with impact, the short hop before the motion builds up momentum combined with the weapon movement gives the feeling the blow takes the whole user weight on it. It’s only suppose to be another simple and savage skill, by giving it a proper animation it sells the idea.
Having Seism as a Slash skill is acceptable but the same animation that pushes it forward gives the impression of a Strike attack. A small complaint about Seism is that it can replace Helm Chopper as the Cleave combo setup and use points more efficiently, that is also tied to the damage type as it can make use of slash debuff as well. Again, inform the stun duration on the tooltip.
Wild Nature (D) - Gimmick Attribute
This feature was added probably to get Highlander farther and as a concept it isn’t that of a bad idea, specially for the Barbarian theme that does have a free running nature, but in practice it isn’t that effective. For it to work skills have to be quick and fluid or deal enough damage that in usual play it will either kill all enemies or get close to it and Barbarian skill set doesn’t support that. Along with that there’s the issue of having buff stacks built on it and as such you need to run for a certain amount of time to build power instead of using the same time to fight, that doesn’t align a theme as the usual route for a savage warrior is to engage combat fast and exterminate enemies quickly.
Stat wise it also doesn’t help the class as it is meant to be offensive, Frenzy further support that by multiplying PAtk, and would take STR as the main stat with DEX being on the second spot. CON is a good stat overall but it isn’t necessarily what a Barbarian wants and even when it does it won’t require it on high values due swordsmen HP ratio, in fact what is required for Wild Nature isn’t CON itself but stamina and that stat has a low growth on it.
If the running gameplay was really meant to be implemented the whole class should be designed to make use of it, either by using the ongoing movement of by adding some form of mobility in its execution, having it to be added with an attribute is just lazy design. Also the same stack issue as Frenzy applies as it may misinform the current amount and such unreliability is terrible, but that may be an issue on a small part of players.
Lastly they could’ve added the extra effects on each skill tooltip as having all condensed on the attribute is terrible for reading.
This mid circle gives a lot of steroids to Barbarian as both Warcry and Frenzy increases PAtk and the Wild Nature stacks over them. The whole issue with the first circle is how it lacks diversity on leveling aspects and seems like Wild Nature stepped up for it, yet that doesn’t make sense as it requires more investment into the class and to top it up Seism does the same.
Giant Swing (E) - Grand Lead
This is a legacy of the old exaggerated game concepts that stood the time, it’s a perfect idea for the pinnacle of brutality and manages to be useful.
When it works the skill can be quite scary as it has no target restriction and a massive skill ratio, but that doesn’t matter when Giant Swing seldom does. The captured mob may die and yet allow it to deal damage, sometimes it will drag merge the mob with the caster, it also can deal no damage even when swinging, yet the most common bug is to prevent movement which is the vital component for it to work, obviously all those can occur at the same time.
I’ll be quite sad to see this skill removed but i understand it may be gone for good as may be impossible to fix due mechanical issues.
Pouncing (E) - Relief
This skill is boring, it’s too mild for Barbarian theme and can’t even match the strength displayed on Wild Swing. Having it as a channel is also bad and the attack frequency and damage factor are laughable, it also seems like the skill can’t be used while standing still and that also compromises the viability of it.
For the last circle we go back to the identity with Giant Swing and Pouncing steps into it slightly with a knock down attribute. Again the new skills only get additional damage but as Giant Swing is unreliable and Pouncing is too slow they aren’t as effective as lower ranks skills, this is a complete backfire for the last rank with the major merits found on Warcry and Frenzy attributes.
Conclusion
The major issue with Barbarian is how clunky it is, even with combos that present options on how and when use skills they seem to be the only part of it that works as intended. Half of the skills are either too slow or have on element that kills the whole functionality and that is a major downside it has. What saves Barbarian is the PAtk steroids that can empower later ranks, it’s a huge attraction and along with the functional skills and combos can be a complete package for all builds.
Addressing the gameplay flow is enough to set it back to the rails, as much as animations must have a specific timing for their execution it should have a compensation for it. It would be good to have some improvements on them as well as only some sell the fantasy.
| C 1 | C 2 | C 3 | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Identity | A | B | B |
| Theme | B | B | A |
| Gameplay | C | B | D |
| Cohesion | A | B | C |
| Point Distribution | C | C | C |
| Dropout | C | D | B |
Usually this would be the end of the thread but we still need to do the clash, for that please read the Highlander one. If you already did that scroll down for the final part.