Tree of Savior Forum

Dealing with blocking and evasion: glancing hit

Blocking is a subject frequently debated in the forums and evasion too, although for less extent. In the last issue of Popolion Post released a few days ago, IMC said they’re working on it:

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But, is changing the formula the best solution or just a bandage? What will happen when we get another level expansion or Rank 10? Will we need the block/dodge formula to be changed again?

In this regard, I bring a suggestion of a new mechanic: glancing hit. What if, instead of only two possible outcomes for physical attacks (hit/miss, hit/block), a third possibility was present? The purpose of glancing hit is to reduce the power of evasion and block rate without making them completely useless stats, adding a second roll to decide if the incoming attack is completely nullified or if the resulting damage is mitigated instead.

Now, going in-depth with glancing hit:

  • Attacker A attacks target B with a physical attack
  • The game checks if the attack will hit or if it’s evaded (dodge chance) or if the attack will hit or if it’s blocked (block chance)
  • If B wins, a second roll is done to check if the attack is completely evaded/blocked or if the damage’s reduced by 50% (glancing hit)

So what’s the chance of a glancing hit happening?
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Normally, glancing happening or not would be at a 50% chance. However, depending on A and B stats, B is more likely to avoid the attack or A is more likely to inflict half damage if they fail to deliver a direct hit, but the chance of totally blocking or evading an attack can’t go below 25% in this test (the same applies for the chance of dealing a glancing hit), at least under normal circumstances. To decide where the scale will be, a simply algorithm is used to calculate the glancing hit chance:

  • Calculate (ACC / EVA) * 0.5 or (BLKPEN / BLK) * 0.5
  • If the result is less than 0.25, then glancing chance = lower threshold (LT) instead
  • If the result is greater than 0.75, then glancing chance = upper threshold (UT) instead
    Another possibility could be using STR / DEX and DEX / CON instead of the above formulae.

Under normal circumstances, LT and UT are 0.25 and 0.75, respectively. Since pretty much all mechanics in the game can be affected by other factors, the same could happen here. Some examples:

  • High Guard (Peltasta C2 buff) reducing LT to 0
  • Guard (C button for many classes with Guard attribute) reducing glancing hit chance for incoming attacks to 0
  • Sneaky Hit (Rogue C1 buff) increasing UT to 1.0 and glancing chance to 100% when attacking from behind
  • Glancing chance isn’t taken into account with Non-Invasive Area (Templar C3 skill) and Enchant Earth (Enchanter C2 buff)
  • Shields, accessories and other equipment that affects glancing hit chances

Now, a little test with A (150 Accuracy and 300 block penetration) and B (180 Evasion and 900 block rate). Reminder:

  • evasion chance = (max(0, evasion – accuracy)) ^ 0.65
  • block chance = (max(0, block – block penetration)) ^ 0.7

B has only 9% chance of evading A’s attack, but 88% chance to block them! With glancing hit, if B wins in the block chance test, A has 17% chance to deal a glancing hit, but since it’s less than the LT, they have 25% chance of dealing half damage instead. Not that bad, don’t you think? Now, if A gets 600 block penetration, B will have 54% block chance and A will have 33% glancing hit chance.

Conclusion: with the current formulae for evasion and block chance and a new mechanic called glancing hit, block and evasion are still powerful, but the attacker gets an opportunity to deal reduced damage instead of having their attacks completely nullified.

6 Likes

The premise should be, if you end up using a heavy piece of metal in your off hand to block attacks, you should be extremely penalized in the ability to dodge attacks.

Then take into account your positioning in relation to the attack to determine how effective Block or Dodge will be (in part they plan to do this in relation to the block with item, I do not know if it is the best strategy, but it is a start).

And finally implement something concerning partially block or dodge the attack, which, I believe, was what the OP brought to debate, by the way, it is very interesting.

just remove the block gain according to Con, made it skill only like high guard and finestra…that’s the biggest problem right now, Full Con wizards and clerics blocking more than shield-focused classes, and besides that gives you hitkill with shinnk body / blind faith / any stupid ff3 flyng and immune to melee attacks
Really…the Tbl at this moment its just unplayable.It only has players with bugged classes.

1 Like

The idea of a glancing blow is interesting (although it’s been done before and was ultimately removed from WoW), but I think it overcomplicates a system that’s already considerably complex.

I actually think a better solution to the block meta problem would be to implement a crit system which didn’t suck so much, either allowing crits to ignore defense or ignore block or something in between–while also nerfing a lot of the skills which buff crit tremendously and probably reworking linearly-scaling/additive crit rate bonuses into percentages which scale multiplicatively.

The physical attack/defense formulas need to be made more simple, not more complex. Or maybe add some complexity to magic attacks and just fix property damage.

Alternative wildcard idea: Add agi/wis as a stat and redistribute what each stat does so that every class has to strive for at least 2-3 or specialize in 1 at the cost of others–3 phys damage/defense focused stats, 3 magic damage/defense focused stats, con does something as a balance of both.

I find CON too powerful compared to other stats in general… I don’t know why it is fine that a pvp build has to be full con and that’s it…

I like your idea too but I always wanted block to just reduce damage in general when you block something instead of totally nullify it… Especially that we have evasion for it…

If it would only reduce damage there could be a new stat, Block Power, that determines how much damage you reduce. I think STR could give that stat.

Also because I don’t think it would be that op anymore it could reduce magic damage too…and also we could even separate Block power to Phsyical Block Power and Magic Block Power and maybe give the magic one to INT.

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Oh crap, that made me realize my mistake. The upper threshold doesn’t make sense because you have 0% block chance if the attacker’s block pen is greater than the target’s block rate. The same applies for accuracy x evasion, which means 50% glancing chance (ACC/BLKPEN = EVA/BLK) is the hard cap with what I proposed.

I’m all for more complex mechanics, but I don’t think it’ll happen, even if the game already has so many obscure mechanics. Meanwhile, adding a RNG layer to reduce damage instead of nullifying it completely when you succeed at blocking or evading an attack is a watered down version of Aias’ special effect (8% chance to reduce damage by 50%).

I think this looks a bit too complicated to happen. Classes like Fencer (Epee Garde) and Musketeer (Grooving Muzzle) would give a big headache for the devs in order to adapt these and other classes to a new crit system. This also seems to be harder to balance. While +50% damage is noticeable at all phases of the game (fighting against low lvl monsters and fighting raid and world bosses), ignoring armor would only be effective in the endgame and maybe a bit too powerful against high def enemies. Ignoring block would only work in PvP, so maybe this could work as a special mechanic in PvP (crits deal +50% damage in PvE and ignore block in PvP)?

I also think they should explore already existing mechanics such as Rear Attacks better. The enemy’s block rate could be reduced by half or even ignored when a rear attack happens. That would increase the value of Werewolf Cards, that only a few Rogue players use, and reward players with good positioning.

Should there be more bonuses when using Awoooo cards and shoving pointy sticks up someone’s ass?

Yes. :haha:

Should there be a rework to block/evasion from a HIT? YES/NO system to some % chance based system?

No. :tired:

Give boosts to block pen / accuracy when jamming your sticks up rears, leave the rest alone. :heeey: