Crossguard + Stabbing Doppel 3 Build - Give your opinion!

[mrshadowccg]

Introduction

With the upvent of rank 9, many doppels are taking shinobi as rank 9 to use together with Swordman3 + HL2 or HL3 + Barb1 builds. Main purpose for Shinobi is to copy Moulinet and/or Double slash skills (and kunai, ofc).

Unwilling to do the shinobi quest, I theorized this build for a non-typical rank 9 doppel:

https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skill-planner#1122444999.253555.354a557585.1f2f345a71.1f4459667a91

The (main) reason behind this build is to make good use of the new Stabbing + Pierce alongside with Highlander’s Crossguard.

Hoplite + Highlander

As we know, Crossguard gives a +135% pierce damage debuff and it can only be used with 2h sword. From all Hoplite skills, only Stabbing and Pierce can be used with something other than spears.

Stabbing: 7225% total skill factor from all 25 hits at skill lv 15. With the Crossguard debuff, that totals 16978% skill factor over 25 hits. If we include DoV, that becomes 7225 * 2.68 = 19363% total damage. I’m not including Spear Lunge here because I assume it’s too difficult to flip to spear, lunge, then back to 2h sword to do stabbing (Crossguard debuff only lasts a few seconds).

Pierce: 2412% skill factor per overheat against bosses with the shock debuff (obtained via Crown). This becomes 5668% with Crossguard debuff and 6464% with DoV lv 15 as well. Total damage of 12928% if we use both overheats.

Pretty nice numbers!

But of course nothing in this life comes for free. By picking HL 2 Hop 3 instead of HL 3 Barb 1 Shinobi 1 (for example), we are losing:

Moulinet: 800% skill factor at lv 10. Crown gives +100% dmg, Cleave +50% and Zwercchau + 80%, for a total of +230% extra damage since they’re all group 2 debuffs. This totals 2640% skill factor without clones and 13200% skill factor for all 5 of them. Using DoV, we have 800 * 3.63 = 2904% damage for yourself, totaling 2904 + 13200 = 16104% final damage from you + clones.

Kunai: 915% skill factor at lv 5, becoming 1216% with DoV. Damage with 5 clones = 1216 + 915 * 5 = 5791 per overheat, to a total of 11582% on both overheats.

Crown: 643% skill factor at lv 15. Cleave +50% and Zwercchau +80%, for a total of +130% extra damage from debuffs. Damage of 5 clones: 7394%. Your damage with DoV = 1691%. Final damage from you + clones = 9085%

Zornhau: 4968% skill factor at lv 10 and attributed. Becomes 8942% with Zwercchau and we’re losing out the fact it could be 11426% with Zwercchau + Cleave together. Not including DoV in the comparison because it makes no difference.

Redel: 5152% skill factor at lv 10 and attributed. Becomes 9273% with Zwercchau alone and 11849% if we had Cleave as well. Not including DoV in the comparison because it makes no difference.

Vertical Slash: 826% skill factor at lv 5. Assuming 5 debuffs, we get +150% damage, summing up Cleave, Zwercchau, and DoV we get a total of +313% extra damage. 826 * 4.13 = 3411% on each overheat, for a total of 6822% damage on both overheats.

And a few other minor differences like Skyliner lv 10 instead of 5, Cleave + Whirlwind, etc.

Cool, what’s your point?

I would like to hear what you guys think of this idea, trading off shinobi, barb1 and HL 1 for Hop 3. A lot of skill points are lost by picking Hop 3 on a 2h sword build, so that may upset some people.

If we compare only Stabbing + Pierce from the first build with the Clone-able skills from second build (Moulinet, Crown and Kunai), we have a rather small difference in total skill factor between the two builds. Stabbing + Pierce = 32291% Moulinet + Crown + Kunai = 36771%. This is something interesting to point out, as the first build doesn’t require a hidden class quest and doesn’t take 50% extra damage with clones up (and has no risk of clones actually missing the target).

Give your inputs and feel free to correct me if I got any math wrong.

[greyhiem]

Definitely non-meta. Sounds like you will have fun. I did not check the math, I will trust your ability.

Have you thought about High1-hop3-barb1-doppel3 too? (taken from the same build for dragoon3). High1 will offer Crown debuff. Barb1 will give cleave debuff.

Doppel skill distribution for more damage, consider it:

[mrshadowccg]

Have you thought about High1-hop3-barb1-doppel3 too?

HL 1 is an interesting choice too, but I think I prefer HL 2 so I can cause Bleeding with Crosscut and use 3x Prison cutter cards to deal +30% damage (I’m not a fan of Glass Moles, the buff duration is too short). Doesn’t make up for the +50% damage from Cleave but at least it also works for Stabbing and Pierce :3

Doppel skill distribution for more damage, consider it:

Will use that, thanks.

[aruzaki]

Interesting build, but I’d like to point out some corrections:

Firstly Crown is a strike type, so it does not benefit from Cleave+Zwerchhau.

Second, Moulinet has the +60% critical chance attribute (which does seem to apply to clones, as in videos, every single clone hits crits). Assuming a base critical chance of 40%, this is is a (1+0.5*(0.4+0.6))/(1+0.5*0.4)=25% increase in overall expected damage of Moulinet.

Third, Kunai has a low enough cooldown such that it can be used twice within the duration of Bunshin (so 4 OH total per Bunshin).

Also, Highlander’s Skull Swing also amplifies burst. Its duration is very short, so it will be active for only a cloned Moulinet and one more skill before it runs out. The true bonus from it depends on your attack vs. the enemy’s defense ratio. Important to note that the new challenge monsters will have higher defense than the ones we’re fighting now, so Skull Swing’s effect will be greater.

The final question is - does Cross Guard amplify Kunai’s damage? According to [Shinobi] Question: Kunai Damage, it is classified as Piece damage. If so, it looks like it would open a whole can of whoop-ass.

[Tanzen]

+1 I like non meta builds. I also utilize crossguard combined with lancer skills but only in PvP.

CONS: It requires manual weapon swapping (please IMC we need autoswap for flexible builds such as this) and 2 weapon sets. It would have been nice if the extra setup provided better output than 36771% . With a shinobi you can straight up throw everything with clones from a crossguarded boss while the risk factor of missing is true to all swordsman class.

PROS: Non-meta build gameplay is more fun at least in my opinion. Versatile damage type having pierce and slash. Shinobi makes broken DPS; broken stuff eventually gets fixed, and swordsman could get autoswap in the future, this build could be another viable option by then.

[Phirox]

We have a Hoplite rebalance in this patch?

[mrshadowccg]

We have a Hoplite rebalance in this patch?

No…

[Kanna]

This sounds pretty interesting. However, I do have some concerns.
How easy is it to block attacks with Crossguard?
I assume Crossguard is like normal blocking doesn’t work on magic attacks.

[mrshadowccg]

How easy is it to block attacks with Crossguard?

Doesn’t seem too hard tbh. In this video we see a HL 1 Hop 3 Doppel 3 Shinobi:

She can pull out Crossguard blocks easily. I’m not sure what weapon she is using, but it’s surely not a trans 5+ weapon.

Video thanks to @greyhiem

I assume Crossguard is like normal blocking doesn’t work on magic attacks.

You’re right, it doesn’t.