Tree of Savior Forum

Combat System Changes Dossier Pt. 4

Basic logic seems to be escaping you, i suggest you reread our entire convo.

Physical based Clerics also have to deal with the STR/DEX/CON(and secondary Dodge/Block/Crit ) conundrum, like any Swordie/Archer. Some have it even worse because they may even need SPR.

Min-Max attack are base weapon stats,they get increased by Transcendence/Enhancement.

mAMP(our equivalent to max atk for magic damage) isn’t a base stat.

Physical Classes get debuffs/buffs like Corsair Fever(shit ton % bonus to missile),Serpentine,High Kick,Spear Lunge,Cleave,Decay,etc…

Magical classes have almost nothing exclusive in that regard.

Watch the kTOS new videos, there are comparatively way more Physical Classes reaching damage caps or 10 sec boss kill than Magical Classes.

Too early, I saw couple of videos but im not in the mood to view each one of them. Some physicals in the video have absurd transcendence lvl to be use as a comparison vs Sub par weapon of Magic classes.

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Let’s play a game, put 1 image of all weapon types of the same level and family…

the highest dmg # loses

It’s stupid to assume that Clerics have an advantage with anything.

Archers get more critrate& more ASPD with their buffs, Swordsmen get stunrate, knockback resistance and more basic damage skills that have low CD times and overheats.

Throwing magic in front of you at melee range isn’t really advantadgeous, as Clerics don’t have mounts or running ability to increase their survivability nor have they the ability to block actively with their shields. They even lost Stone Skins Blockrate boost in favor of some random damage type decrease [more viable in PVP now than PVE].

Stop raging on Clerics. Sure, they can cast magic, but their magic capability is weak compared to their Wizard-counterparts. The same goes for the physical Classes that are weaker than Archer&Swordsman Classes at the same Rank.

And yeah, physical damage has some problems, but guess what?
Nowadays, physical Classes have way easier lifes than pre-balance patch, because they can just stack STR and have both Accuracy and attack delivered to their doorstep.
That’s basically the same as INT providing matk only, as it has the same consequences:
with high STR you hit often and deal much damage, with high INT you deal much damage.


Most physical skills have also ASPD-affected castanimations, so they can be spammed faster with a little more ASPD = more possible damage within the same timeframe if you have enough to spam.

Meanwhile, Clerics and Wizards have a lot of cast time/long animation timeframes on their spells, making it hard for them to really spam their skills = disadvantage for only being affected by one stat.

Also, guess what? Most magic buffs now scale with SPR, so there goes your one stat logic out of the window if you want to calculate in buffs,too.


About stacking CON:
guess what? CON HP gain was nerfed for all Classes except Swordsmen…
Stacking CON is very disadvantageous because you need to invest lots of points into it to really see effects in comparison to the new HP gain per level. Block was nerfed,too and no more weight limit increase via CON.

And you still call it an advantage /disadvantage that people “have” to invest in CON? Noone needs to invest into CON anymore. It’s bad actually, because CON only provides you with more HP and a little potting bonus (10% for 100 CON is a laugh), making pots in turn less effective because of your increased maximum HP (a 4k HP pot heals 40% HP on a 10k HP character, 20% HP on a 20k HP character and 10% on a 40k HP character).
Unless you have a %based Healing ability like Clerics, having CON is bad for you, point.

Just dodge/avoid/block the damage like you’re supposed to and you’ll be fine. Monsters in TOS are retards and so slow in attacking[like a grandpa slowly lifting his cane before trying to hit you with it from above] that active evasion/block is a childs play <_<


Clerics don’t have defensive advantages; it’s actually the opposite.
The defensive advantages most Clerics had went poof with rebalancing (e.g. the defence boost from Aspersion was nerfed to the ground, the block rate increase from Stone Skin was removed entirely, skills like Melstis no longer increase Ausrines invulnerability beyond +100% buff duration) and ± all of the Cleric skills are point blank melee range[counterbalanced with damage-mitigation skills like Safety Zone], even if they’re magic.

When their damage mitigation skills are down, they’re in for a beating [-> counterbalanced with Healing ability].
There is no clear advantage to be found anywhere[ it’s even more problematic that the healing skills of the base Cleric are supposed to be offensive and defensive at the same time, making it easy for others to “steal” your damage by running into your Heal or Cure and resulting in you having to calculate if you rather need the damage or the healing…] and the Cleric more than often finds himself in a dire situation because his party members play like reckless sh!t$ and demand healing to compensate for their inability to play properly, lowering the possible damageoutput of the Cleric a lot…



I’m fed up with ■■■■■■■ heal leechers that have this “Clerics are too strong whine whine”-mentality, who blame IMC for their “bad balancing” .
Go ■■■■ yourselves and run without any Clerics by just spamming potions and you’ll be fine, no Cleric to argue over.

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Perfect frontpage picture :flushed:.

Did you play in KRTest servers ?

don’t compare to KR , iTOS always have something difference so if they said only 20-30%. So it was very little.

All hail our cleric overlords! Hahahaha

Guess I should be readying my 1st cleric for the possible rise of a new magic-physical hybrid meta build.

Cleric strong at tanking dmg (got heal got def buff) but they slow ,they have very long motion delays.

Cleric isn’t strong. Like Leleconildo said , SW got STR bonus (30%) , AR got more Evasion and Critical (old one didn’t change) , Cleric got no AOE just like Wiz class was. and they even weak when they go Patk build.

Mamp not equivalent to Crit Attack it very difference.

Mamp like Max Makt attack but not amp to quick cast (it removed in KR now) or Chap card.

Crit Attack now mediocre , it now like Patk but no *1.5 amp like Patk do when cri.

That’s some 5 dimensional chess trolling…

You didn’t even watch the damn things…

Why do people complain that physicals need more stats for some builds?

Unless you take everything else into account, aka skill%modifiers, enemies average mdef and def, skill animation time, skill casting time, con modifier, base hp modifier, weapon atk/matk, armor break skills, attack type modifiers (like Cleave), etc just looking at stats that can be useful for a class hardly means anything.

For example, lets say for the sake of this argument that the damage that all offensive parameters like equipments, weapon atk/matk and skill modifiers were perfectly balanced to achieve exactly the same dps if played optimally and the only difference were the stats a class “needs” to invest in.
If it turns out that enemies have on average higher mdef than def then magic classes need more int to keep the damage up compared to physical classes and their str/dex, in that case magic classes have less of a choice whether to invst in high/full int or not.
If it turns out that enemies have on average equal or less mdef than def, then going high/full int might give a damage advantage, but you are also missing out on other probably important things, like dex reducing some skill animation time or con giving you higher survivalability.

However, this all is just under the condition that everything else is absolutely perfectly balanced and equal. Since this is not the case you can’t just look at the stats alone.
Also, nobody forces physical classes to invest in anything, you can still go full dex, full str or full con if you want. There are quite some possibilities how you can make up for not investing in some stats (gems for example).

With STR giving both power and accuracy it’s very to go full STR as a physical class, just throw some yellow stones in your gloves for block penetration and you’ll probably be fine.

[quote=“Adeodatus, post:44, topic:358486, full:true”]
Archers get more critrate& more ASPD with their buffs[/quote]
Those were nerfed and stacking crit rate means you sacrificed something in exchange of that. Clerics could build HP while stil sporting huge attack power thats the major difference. Thats the source of unbalance since at the start of R7.

Clerics on the other hand have more influencial skills than swordsman have. Immunity to damage, reflecting damage, Sustain skills, status removal, buff removal. Namely immunity to stun, immunity KD, and Clerics has reduced CD on their offensive end comparable with swordman DPS.

Swordmen are also a melee, effectively exposing themselves infront of Cleric who has damage immunity, status resistance, Huge magic attacks, huge HP and capable if removing the said movement buff of Swordsman.

Full potential Clerics have the same firepower if not stronger than Physicals, while sporting huge HP without any compensation at all. Can physical do that? No because of accuracy and block pen.

[quote]And yeah, physical damage has some problems, but guess what?
Nowadays, physical Classes have way easier lifes than pre-balance patch, because they can just stack STR and have both Accuracy and attack delivered to their doorstep.
That’s basically the same as INT providing matk only, as it has the same consequences:
with high STR you hit often and deal much damage, with high INT you deal much damage. [/quote]

There is no way you can hit a blocking opponents (C guard, full con swell right arm) thats why you cant enjoy both accuracy and block pen at the same time. It is zero sum for physical stats allocation. Clerics dont have because they cant miss and be blocked.

If you stacked ASPD it means you lack accuracy, you maybe have the fastest attack speed but it cant hit whats the use for?

Majority of Cleric and Wizard spells dont require Cast time, specially clerics. Long animation is also a problem not just for clerics but swordsmen and archers as well.

There is no need to stack up SPR if you go to PVP because Cleric’s weapon has bonus SPR on it. Full CON PVP wiz and Cleric is still there because you can get the damage on Transcendence and you dont have to worry about missing or blocking.

[quote]About stacking CON:
guess what? CON HP gain was nerfed for all Classes except Swordsmen…
Stacking CON is very disadvantageous because you need to invest lots of points into it to really see effects in comparison to the new HP gain per level. Block was nerfed,too and no more weight limit increase via CON.[/quote]
If you go to PVP and have plenty of experience. Stacking tons of con is the go to go. There is no disadvantage if Cleric and Wiz stack cons, all pros no cons.

[quote] Noone needs to invest into CON anymore. It’s bad actually, because CON only provides you with more HP and a little potting bonus (10% for 100 CON is a laugh), making pots in turn less effective because of your increased maximum HP (a 4k HP pot heals 40% HP on a 10k HP character, 20% HP on a 20k HP character and 10% on a 40k HP character).
Unless you have a %based Healing ability like Clerics, having CON is bad for you, point.[/quote]
Sure, enjoy you ■■■■ tier Cleric in PVP i guess? Comeback here if you climb higher without con allocation.

Wow so pro, you clearly dont need con because youre so good at dodging. Maybe you never take damage at all in PVP because you can evade most of time. All those people who went PVP and said you should stack con are all stupid because in reality you can just evade them anyway.

[quote=“TIDMAN, post:48, topic:358486, full:true”]
Cleric strong at tanking dmg (got heal got def buff) but they slow ,they have very long motion delays.[/quote]
Swordman is also slow, so does an archer. Clerics are good at tanking while at the same time capable of killing the opponents using always-hit magic attacks. Damage can be acquire using trans weapon.

No more additional STR bonus AFAIK and even if it does, it doesnt matter as the major problem is the unabalanced stat and equipment system of all the classes.

Depends on your build, a DPS AOE is possible using Plague doctor. Not only you can sustain, be immune to damage and immune to status, you can also act as a DPS, both in PVE and PVP.

No, im always serious. You resulting to insult means you cant defend your arguments anymore. At least be creative if you wanna insult because your method is too cliche and only stupid people use that.

but but … that 1 heal make 3 sec to recovery or hand swing in priest buff make me feels like hand on goo :confused:

PD can’t outcome Ele3 dps in AOE

I thinks Mergen or Ele3 is more DPS than PD

and now heal not scale with % , you can’t go support and DPS now (except hybrid that not in the case)

PS. PVP? psycho is GOD > PD , you can’t immune to anything they threw to you
PS2. if you said go ORACLE , just happy with Magnetic force from miles always.

I think the future update of the new formula, but the appearance of the re-packaging and the content is the same professional unbalanced game
My evidence is as follows
The new revision of the weapon damage promotion is corresponding to the future wild strange high defense
Current version / future board of the monster value


damage = (% increase factor) x attack x min {1, log10 ((attack / (defense + 1))^0.8 + 1)} + (+ increase)
From the formula you can understand the main source of damage is the panel damage and skill factor%
But the damage has been the future plate of the monster high defense force discounted
Many of the professional (skill factor%) continue to repair, Priest’s Aspersion and Stone Skin skills are weakened,
Paladin’s Conversion number was canceled, for some disadvantaged, no doubt is to increase the difficulty of the game
That comes to the occupational balance, that comes to the rich professional choice, the specific copy only needs a specific occupation.
The future players faster and faster upgrade to 330, etc., but the main material of purple weapons to luck.
But .R9 open higher after the map. The role is not equipped with purple above the weapons, simply can not play in the game.
I can not understand the IMC design of the damage factor% of the basic source is the original is unbalanced injury. Still have to rethink
Why the disadvantaged career is only more vulnerable, can not see the time of the first day.

Lol, saying you are a troll is an insult. Or how to victimize your position.

Tree of Insults.

I’m sorry but isn’t Clerics also sacrificing more damage to go high HP? Just like we always saw Full CON Catas criting for 10k+ in TBL while still being Full Con?

I don’t disagree that Clerics are OP. But I don’t think nerfing everything is the way to go. For example, Red Icon Clerics IMO should be able to DPS well but along with nerfs to non-DPS skills (Ausrine, R7X [, Missile Hole ;-;]) so it makes it more like a similar ground for PvP but also leaving supports with low damage.

[quote=“LunarRabbit, post:55, topic:358486, full:true”]

I’m sorry but isn’t Clerics also sacrificing more damage to go high HP? [/quote]
That damage is more than enough to kill anyone. There is no sacrifice. 70% of damage will be coming from weapon.

Full con catas wont be able to touch a high evasive players + Full con block type of players (C guard, right hand swell). You waste your skills if you miss alot, get blocked a lot.

They buff carve owl skill CD to make it more spammable even though they have yet to nerf the non-damage skills of clerics. It means it would be extremely hard to penetrate them as melee if Diev would turtle inside of World carve tree + Carve owl spam. IMC is continously buffing Cleric DPS while also preserving their utilities + Single stat allocation advantage + Good itemization because rebalance means over buffing the Cleric tree. Only reason is because they have Cleric fetish that needs to be satisfied.

IMC also thinks C-guard is the most broken among with these skills Ausrine, R7F, Safety wall, bloodletting, prophesy, missle hole, raise, magnetic force, Pass, Stop, Haste, Subzero shield etc. People have been saying that those skills are over centralizing for god knows how long already. I think cleric class should be abolish and be called god/goddess instead for reason that is obvious.

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