Tree of Savior Forum

Combat System Changes Dossier Pt. 4

Well if you can present your sources you can put it here to add weight to your argument.

Ill use dethrone to one-shot your sources.

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This. Even tho, I should point that they should make viable to get almost 100% crit rate for certain classes that benefit most for it. Fencer, for example. Boosting your critical rate with gems/equipment/etc should be very expensive/time demanding, but also very rewarding.
See old RO(non-transcendent classes). Assassin is the only one that can achieve true or at least, near 100 crit rate. The class was designed for it. It was meant for it. To achieve this crit rate it demands time, patience and farming. But it was very rewarding at the end. If you build it right, it’s a top single target dps class pairing with the Hunter.
I do believe they should drink from this idea.

Well, you can do that with Rogue C2-C3.

Says the person who provided the wrong data to exemplify his argument twice on the thread.

The bread and butter of Matk Cleric skills have low skill factors,because they have insane sustain(Plague skills,Diev Owl,Miko hamaya,Carnivory,etc…).

Also, as explained before, MATK on gear is fixed,while physical weapons have min-max variations.

Magic has only Ghost and Elemental bonus for damage.

Physical get a set of debuffs and armor types,along with crit.

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If you look at the KR ToS neet database (not test) you’ll notice that the values are much lower than a 30% reduction.

Eg. Getting a Vienarazis Mace from +0 to +1 will cost 32k. From +10 to +11 it will be barely over 200k. That seems VERY affordable, it’s from 5 to 10 times less than the actual prices.

Wait, whut? Does this basically mean the log part of the damage function is actually accounting for our own def and not the target’s? If so, where exactly does target’s def get into the damage formula?

The numbers provided for own ATK and DEF and their respective reductions work exactly as we’d expect if we plotted then in the log function:

log10((100/101)^0.9+1) = 0.299
log10((200/101)^0.9+1)= 0.455

So basically if we wanna favor the DPS side of our characters that’d mean we’d need to forego as much of our own defenses as we can. At least that in itself would make leather a viable option for all DPS classes, given it offers the lowest def/m.def, as well as using lower tier/lvl gear.

Seriously, last dossiers made me think I finally got a firm grip on how damage would work after the rebalance patch, now I’m not so sure…

I wish there was a combine weapons that let you fuse together repeated weapons to increase their stats or at least gives you a +1 to it :confused:

I tried Attacks both WITH Armor/Accessories as well as Naked - Same damage… so there must be an error in the translation…

It probably means “Your own own (Attack minus Enemy Defense) proportions”. In fact when you raise attack and increase the GAP with enemy defense, it’s more likely if you add 500 Attack you gain 500 Dmg, if you add 500 more you then gain 1000 (1500 total gain).

That happens because damage is not a linear growth but esponential.

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Thanks for trying that out. Glad to know it’s just a problem of mistranslation and getting it to make sense in English then.

Cd reduction for leather sets.
No?
Okay.

I think one of the major design issues being demonstrated with magic vs physical is that SP appears to have originally been intended as a balancing factor for skills.

As it currently stands I can’t see why SP is even in the game. There is nothing that can use SP faster than you can replenish it. It’s meaningless.

If magic classes required a tonne of SP to function then they would balance out relatively well even with their effective abilities and power. If they had to carefully manage what skills they choose to use or heavily invest in SP replenishment then their other stat usage and strengths would fall off.

Right now you just spam SP pots and don’t worry about SP because nothing uses it anywhere near fast enough to matter in the slightest. It was a pretty large design oversight.

I mostly agree with criticisms of magic classes being favoured. A lot of the “balancing” IMC does looks good on paper, the graphs and charts match up reasonably, it looks balanced. However, in practice, IN GAME, it is not balanced. Players with hundreds of hours experience know this. IMC, due to the sterile environment that they test things in, do not see this. They aren’t testing with the same quantity of hours spent in real situations that the playerbase are.

I don’t see why we should massively hurt the damage output or utility of any of the magic classes. But giving them some resource usage that actually matters would be a good way to force them into dropping some stats to manage those resources better.

Alternatively if you want to be lazy about it just make the CON stat have drastically lower value on non-physical classes. However I think this doesn’t work as well as a concept because then they’re just going to put those stats into power instead. SP should be the power and health sink of the magic classes.

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[quote=“leleconildo, post:26, topic:358486, full:true”]
The bread and butter of Matk Cleric skills have low skill factors,because they have insane sustain(Plague skills,Diev Owl,Miko hamaya,Carnivory,etc…).[/quote]
That doesnt mean that those skills were inherently weaker over Archers and Swordsmen skills like youre trying to imply because those skills you mentioned could also be amplify or multiply to deal more damage than those physicals. That convenience can only be applied to clerics because if Physicals did that there are restrictions EG. Evasion and Block pent. Youre also uninformed because you think Cleric and Magics skill factors were the only one who got nerfed while ignoring the fact that all Classes suffered the same treatment. Clerics DPS is still there capable of dealing damage like a DPS class who only knows how to DPS while sporting TONS of HP and Good utility skills.

Min-Max of physical doesnt come close to being an advantage. Stable damage is much more preferred as you trans your Weapon to highest level. With the intention to educate you, Skull Smasher is 1 handed-weapon meaning you could use another high end shield to compliment the already good stats it gives.

Skull Smasher + Emengard shield give
INT-92
SPR-78
CON-67
Evasion-33
HP-1838
AoE Defense Ratio-5
Physical Defense-22
Magic Defense-440
Movement Speed-1
Block Rate-7
Final Block Rate +7%

VS

Regard horn pike

Critical Rate-48
Critical Attack-501

Basically you think a meager Max attack advantage of regard pike of 520 over Skull Smasher is huge why you conveniently forgotten the overall stats if you min-max everything. Even a dunce will notice the huge disparity between equipments.

[quote]Magic has only Ghost and Elemental bonus for damage.
Physical get a set of debuffs and armor types,along with crit.[/quote]
A monster or a boss only has 1 armor type. Youre arguing as if a boss or a monster have different armor types at the same time. If you actually play this game, youll know that. If you still dont get. Ghost + Elemental bonus give more damage than a 1 armor type of monster. Clerics also have skill amplification and buffs inexchange of debuffs of physicals. Cleric buffs are more stable because you cant apply physical debuffs to every mob that are attacking you (Example ET or Solmiki or TBL). So your debuff argument is garbage and doesnt apply to actually what is happening. It’s actually a poor or idiot buff the devs think to increase the DPS of swordsman, it should be abolish and give stable damage instead.

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is it me or you just ignored M.Amp :confused:

Can’t trans or refine your weapon to give mAMP, context

@jynxie08

Archers also got advantage against certain armor types now,so pretty much every physical class has that now.

So higher values(because trans affects it )1.5%(+crit atk)armor bonusproperty bonusway higher skill factors and quicker bursts of damage

somehow loses to

steady middle ground attackone uncommon armor typeproperty*lower skill factors

Just admit you’re wrong about this, all the information and testing shows you’re wrong…

P:s: you’re on point on Cleric having defensive advantages, though.

I think IMC do not understand the current situation of the current game.
IMC want players to quickly rise in the game, etc. However, the acquisition of equipment but in place.
Even now I still think so.
The so-called new injury formula is only the original damage curve stretched and extended to the back.To now feel like a good feeling.However, but ignore the number of players level 330, etc. but still take 220 weapons.
To get the new weapons drawings to be lucky, the material to be lucky, everything is all.
In the current game unbalanced circumstances, knock down the monster to get off the fall, is extremely difficult.
Even if the injury formula is updated, the weak job is still as weak as the DPK is the same.
My TOS friends (who have just left TOS players) that the revision is still not as attractive.

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[quote=“leleconildo, post:36, topic:358486, full:true”]
Can’t trans or refine your weapon to give mAMP, context[/quote]

It could be transcended into higher value both Physical and Magical.

mAMP =/= Magic Attack.

It’s like we’re not even talking the same language(keep in mind that Maces have way less magic attack than equivalent Rods,for example).

So does Cri attack cant be transcended into higher value? If you think physical could get more via pumping dex it means your accuracy will be lacking. Do you need Accuracy for your magic to hit?

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Basic logic seems to be escaping you, i suggest you reread our entire convo.

Physical based Clerics also have to deal with the STR/DEX/CON(and secondary Dodge/Block/Crit ) conundrum, like any Swordie/Archer. Some have it even worse because they may even need SPR.

Min-Max attack are base weapon stats,they get increased by Transcendence/Enhancement.

mAMP(our equivalent to max atk for magic damage) isn’t a base stat.

Physical Classes get debuffs/buffs like Corsair Fever(shit ton % bonus to missile),Serpentine,High Kick,Spear Lunge,Cleave,Decay,etc…

Magical classes have almost nothing exclusive in that regard.

Watch the kTOS new videos, there are comparatively way more Physical Classes reaching damage caps or 10 sec boss kill than Magical Classes.

Too early, I saw couple of videos but im not in the mood to view each one of them. Some physicals in the video have absurd transcendence lvl to be use as a comparison vs Sub par weapon of Magic classes.

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