Comparing a single target skill to an AOE is useless, not to say fire ball got hit by party members and lose it’s dmg almost all the time in all party plays.
And the problem is a player going from wiz3 dealt more dmg than a player going with wiz1-pyro2 because the latter chose a damage class instead of a utility class.
An ideal situation should be at rank 7, player who chose wiz3 will be able to get a blast of dmg when cast frost cloud with quick cast, and a player who chose wiz-pyro2 will be able to deal constant dmg with his skill rotation.
However from what I’ve seen now, fire ball got kicked around dealing 0 dmg, fire pillar a few hundred dmg with low hit rate, fire gound with 100 sth while frost cloud cleared everything in 10 seconds.
This is not only pyro/wiz issue, most low rank dmg classes become useless and there’s simply no point to choose them if you want to get the best dps late game.
If they make dmg properly scaled, there will be more variety for classes, instead of the meta builds: choose utility skills/classes and the best dps high rank class and spam that highest dmg skills from that single class forever.
And if the person chooses Sorc Wiz 3 instead or Wiz 3 Thauma?
Again you don’t know what route people are going to go, you have no ability to force their direction and as such to balance the route they’re going ahead of time
So you’re speaking impractically The devs make adjustments as they see them this is how it’s handled for MMO’s in general.
ToS has its work cut out for it because there are more variables then normal as far as classes goes.
The fall off reduces the amount of variables which makes the game easier to balance.
I don’t see the problem with the route people choose.
With proper scaling with stat and level, people can combine their skills from different classes.
Say, seeing frost cloud dealing 3000 per hit as an AOE, and a fire ball hitting 2700 single target as a supplement skill, instead of the poor 500 dmg per hit.
It’s ok if they simply want it easier to balance classes, maybe it’s better for them to completely remove any dps classes and skills so they won’t mislead people.
heres what i’ve said a month ago i think…
but 80% of players ignored… me perso… and some of my friends
reached 280 and we did stopped this game… i wish IMC good luck.
but me myself… these ragnarok ond school doesn’t work anymore
and for me… a players are called good by playing good… not picking a build…
my old post… check it out!
Repast, i think i did a interesting view, try to show me ur point, make me a view trying to say how bad is to have a reset… not simple come in here and reject some cool ideas
Theres 2 kinda of Noobs in this game…
Those who are lvling a Meta build and know they will be much more useful than a random build.
Those who still have no idea how important is to have a Meta build in this game.
The problem in investing in a No Meta build:
Risking to be the guy who no ones invite for anything
Avoiding some areas like PvP, Pve (Boss), (areas Grinding i mean AoE Dmg) because will be a point in the game they will realize the build they did invested, doesn’t work in most situation.
simple fact that what they did, doesn’t correspond as they wishes. (some people maybe heavy be dissapointed with they choises).
will be a time in the game they will get tired of creating new characters, and then will give up because they didn’t accomplished any results.
The problem in investing in a Meta build.
Any, u can go ahead, it works in most situation… and its a good start.
feels secured in they choises,IMC will not reduced the damages of the classes who are supposed to damage < same for the Tank who is supposed to tank alot, and for the healer who is suppsoed to heal the most
not able to make crazy builds like a Full STR Tank < funny af or Max STR Wizard XD (for me this should be the coolest part of the game) thing everyone could profit.
my view:
Well having Meta Builds is cool of course, (but its not good for the game)
but still, it doesn’t means that it works in most situation as i said, its just a way to secure a confortable end game.
Having resets stuffs, people should try as many builds as they wish, and not lose they progress in the game
Hitting 280 maybe easy, but its not hitting lvl 280 with a charcater but with a build
also may i say that 280 is just the beginner? as the rank 7
Not having resets, theres a risk of investiment in the game, and players will get tired in a point, because the only survival 280 will be these who invested in a solid build
Its much more fun if everyone could have the 4 basic classes and try rise em to max lvl, not taking care of a single build choise, than be forced to make solids decision in the game, to avoid the risky of trying new stuffs.
thats all im trying to say in here…
being a meta means many things
best build for pvp
best build for pve (100% cube profit)
best support build (demanded in everything)
best tank build (over 70k hp easy never die)
not being any of em, or not foccusing in any of em, proves the player, doesn’t really care about his character…
builds for em… have any impact in they gameplay…
now having resets stuffs, these focus will be the same (people are already foccusing in the meta build anyway)
but these will be less rerolls in the game forcing people to lvlup
and having much more people reaching the level cap 280.
Do agree with what the @FlanFlan said. The main problems that most builds fall off when reaching 230+ after Cranto Coast maps is the lack of content (or rather rushed content to put a wall) and bad balancing of skills.
Maps after Cranto Coast (232 map iirc) feels rushed just to “give the community more things to do” after 240. The mobs are given huge increases in terms of stats and hp making it ridiculous for players to solo and such. On normal maps we have monsters hp ranging from 110+k onward. The increase in difficulty from this point onward is sharp, it isn’t even linear at all. As a support cleric I can still solo up to Cranto coast, where there are still quests for a player to take and complete. Right after that map the difficulty is amp’ed up until a point where it is near impossible to solo without being in a party. It feels like a wall is set there straight instead of gradually introducing the player to the higher damage levels and difficulty.
This lack of content after 230+, coupled with the static damage skills do make it really difficult for many of the classes to make the transition past 230+ as their skills only do a fixed amount of damage.
This is perhaps where the balance of classes start to get really evident. Classes with skills that scale with stat levels (% wise) are able to transit up to higher levels without much of a problem, but classes with skills using static damage (flat damage) are left in the dust, making them very lackluster to even use vs 240+ normal monsters.
This really worries me as if the same trend continues on, all classes will fall off if they introduce new content which works the same way after 280. At that time no amount of class resets will help the game.
The game’s premises are good, just that the current balancing of the game is in dire need for help. With a game that promises 80 viable classes, a lot of of things need to be looked at to make sure that all 80 are viable in ALL levels in the game, not just end game only.
My suggestion to IMC:
Re- look into the damage output of all skills and convert them to % wise. Just a static 330 damage at level one and 660 damage at level 10 will not cut it, it doesn’t scale at all. A good scaling skill looks something like
X% of weapon damage + character stat * modifier% + additional modifiers.
In this way if IMC want to balance skills like “X skill does 30% of mobs hp in low levels and 20% of mobs hp in high levels” it is easier to do. The skill will still end up being viable since the damage increases along with stats and gear in % form.
This also makes investing in stats worthwhile and not everyone just goes CON now since stats don’t matter that much in a lot of skills.
Flesh out all the content from 235 - 280 and balance the monsters hp. The maps have nothing worthwhile to explore besides pendulum cubes in some maps.
Balance the items. Purple and orange items should feel legendary and not only 1-2 are viable while the rest are complete trash.
When all classes have their damage skills scaled to their character stats and gear instead of a fixed damage, the number of non-viable builds will drop drastically.
We owe it to ourselves to do some research about the build we’re interested in. That said, I’m against class reset. However, since balance is an issue, nerfs (and buffs) will eventually happen. I’m open to the idea of class reset if IMC doesn’t intend to keep iTOS the way it is.
Here’s the more important question, though. Is it even possible? I mean… it’s been talked about since forever, but we’ve never heard from IMC.
[quote=“nuclearmissile, post:48, topic:286252, full:true”]Of course it is possible. The question is, does IMC want to devote resources to develop this feature?
[/quote]
I don’t see why not. They can make more money out of this.
While I agree that significant balance changes should be given some sort of reset rather than wrecking someone’s character they put time into…
I’d also like to point out that balance changes are not supposed to make previous things useless OR previously useless things OP, but rather bring them on the same level as everything else. This game would be REALLY frustrating if the balance changes consisted of making things useless and other things OP.
In a situation like this I, personally, would be left with a feeling of uneasiness like at anytime IMC could pull the plug on the build I’m using and my character is useless, or I’ll be allowed to reset it and then re-grind all those ranks again.
I still wish for a more balanced and stable approach besides, “We changed some crap, here’s a reset.” But if IMC can’t balance and smooth the scaling of the game, then the class reset is all we will have which I would rather have that than nothing at all.
I agree with Zipso replys in spirit but not in his words, i think he was a bit agressive in the way he says it but basically right, changing the build at certain level dsnt affect negatively other gamers, isnt comparable with botters/goldfarmers who are very damaging.
Anyway u make some very interesting points Flan.
The ppl complaining about Flan post being too large to read it i can only say no one forces u to read it, u can go to eat bananas instead…
I actually only made the comparison to botters/goldfarmers to show a point that using, “People should be able to play however they want to play” as a grounds for an argument in favor of something isn’t always right. It isn’t damaging like botters/goldfarmers at all.
But easily available class resets will remove that feeling of choice and uniqueness as I build my character if, at anytime, I can revert all the choices that I made and be something else making the whole class system feel like nothing more than a “Choose your temporary skill set” instead of “Choose your character’s life”.
It isn’t damaging to the game in the sense that it’s ruining everyone’s fun / ruining the economy but it kinda undermines the feeling of choice when you are advancing. That’s my opinion on that subject.
I agree with this one. Honestly I think IMC should give players on the current highest rank a chance to reset when a higher rank is implemented. That way there can be no “full damage when leveling, full support after reset” as some people said
Example would be when Rank 8 gets released, people on Rank 7 should be given the choice to repick their class because people don’t know what’s with Rank 8. Same goes for Rank 8 when Rank 9 is implemented and so on.
Do you have any plans to develop a class or rank reset potion?
A. Creating a character in TOS involves making choices about stats, skills, attributes, classes, and many other things. It is possible to revert a character’s entire state to what it was like the day before, for example, but rolling back their class or skills while maintaining the level and stats intact is not an easy task. We will, however, consider making it possible to give up class advancement quests to allow picking a different class.
So far the only real argument for class resets seems to be, “i picked a class and it was shitty and i dont want that class”. So wouldn’t the real solution be to not have shitty classes? You should be playing what you want to play, not what is the most optimal efficient strongest build; if you want the most optimal efficient strongest build ■■■■■■■ google it. If you really wanted to be a hunter->falconer and use your shitty little pets and then realized those classes are garbage that really sucks for you, but does the class being garbage make it totally unappealing? Wouldn’t you rather the class be better rather than rerolling something else?
