Tree of Savior Forum

[Class] I Foresee an Oracle Thread

Class and Rank Cleric
#285

The problem isn’t “Foretell is bad”. The problem is “Foretell isn’t as good as other options”.

Sterea Trofh lvl 10 is better in every single aspect than Foretell. It has less cooldown, 100% invulnerability instead of 55%, same duration, and doesn’t move around which is only a drawback.

And then you add the fact that Oracle C3 is absolutely garbage when it comes to dealing dps. It just makes zero sense to have sub-optimal support skills in a class that’s full support oriented.

Kabbalist C2 suffers with pretty much the same issue. But the thing is, at least Kab C2 is still a C2 class so it still has hopes for when Kab c3 is released and hopefully rebalanced. Oracle C3 is a dead end of lost hope.

I haven’t even bothered updating this thread anymore because I feel like I’d be wasting my time. I’ve only seen 2 Oracles C3 in my server during my whole life and they were both just for selling gender change afk in town. If barely anyone plays the class, it already gives you an idea of how good it is…

#286

Oracle isn’t more support-oriented than Druid,though. Druid has exactly two skills that deal damage, Lycantropy and Carnivory, the rest is as much utility/support as most Oracle skills are.

Sterea Troph has 50% downtime, so it’s basically 50% invulnerability.
You can rotate with Safety Zone, however, if you got at least Diev C1 in your build. The question is,though, if Foretell won’t get better if it gets one or several attributes with the next larger update. Sterea Troph has way less hope to recieve more love by the developers than Foretell. Also, you have to sink 10 points into Sterea Troph, but only 5 into Foretell.

If you calculate everything, you can hit up to 66% invulnerability chance with Foretell+Forecast, which is quite amazing if you ask me. The Aoe is also larger and because it moves, it’s easier to stay inside.
The main problem is that if you have no grass besides Chortasmata, and the enemy is really large, he can move onto your chortasmata and push you out of it. In that moment your Sterea Troph is worth as much as the dirt beneath my nails xD(if I was IMC, I’d program the bosses AI to exactly try this, to push you out of/occupy every invulnerability skill zone)

Also, since Carnivory also uses the grass, it’s more than likely that the enemy at least partially occupies your Chortasmata anyway…
I don’t know about knockback/cc immunity during Sterea Troph so I can’t say anything about that.

Lastly, I wouldn’t say that Oracle is garbage when it comes to DPS. Up to 1m damage via Twist of Fate doesn’t seem that bad, especially for bossing.
If the damage limit gets removed, this skill might become one of the best skills in the whole Cleric Tree, since it ignores dodge rate/def/size/element/etc. and just deals damage based on the max HP of the target. We’ll have to see if Rank 9/10 will bring us a class with good synergy/one that covers the AoE-deficiency of Oracle.

Oracle isn’t good at all currently, but it’s not as bad as some might think. Oracle C3 is currently bad because Death Sentence isn’t very useful and the other skills are rather gambly to express it positively.
I’ll take that gamble willingly,though, because the class is rather unique and fun to play. We’ll see during the next ranks if it was indeed worth the investment or if Oracle will become the next Sadhu…

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#287

Moving is a drawback with half the DPS chars of the game and with barrier in general. The fact that is 55% at R8 is the final trolling… huehuehuehue

The point that you got extra point to spend couz foretell is only 5 on 5 is also kinda useless, couz atm the class doesnt need 45 points at tier 3. Yeah, its nice to have extra points, but you really only need for oracle to be playable in pve 5 man

1 point in forecast for the attribute

3 points prophecy for full duration, even if its kinda useless in PvE and most PD that do ET skip all the immunities to just be a dedicate DPS with high HF and pandemic… So go figure how much good immunities are in PvE contest ATM, and even if they will be needed at some point PD will do it just better then oracle while, you know, dishing DPS

10 points in death sentence, which is totally useless ATM in a game were PvE end game is mostly a big DPS check vs waves of mobs

5 points in foretell so everybody will go crazy trying to stay on it and on barrier while you will listen the screams on discord of your SR trying to use retreat shot on this AMAZING… kappa… R8 circle

5 points in twisth of faith hoping they will ever fix it

5 points in counterspell which is an amazing skill, no jokes here.

This is 29 points for PvE.

If you consider the reroll future a must have of the class, and I dont, since if u want to roll an R8 class for drops u can do MUCH better then this for farming gold, or even Oracle1Kabba2 is better in cleric tree, but whatever, u go up to 32 points with change plus clairvoyance plus resetting. Add the shop that is one of the worst in game, 33 points.

PvP wise, where you could be potential usefull in GvG for a maxed counterspell, I asked to some end game guilds on the server that reroll for perfect set up for GvG and they just said that I was trolling, since this monstrous is rather bad even in GvG were just the standard C2 XXX Oracle 1Kabba1 Inqui 1 would be preffered, and Im talking, mind you, about GvG where you could think extra lvls of prophecy and counterspell could be considered.

Its a really good concept as a class, it could be some future if r9 or more ranks will sinergies HEAVILY with it, but at the moment is more an off meta for fun char, which I totally love.

But saying that is good, its just a big nope.

#288

Foretell has an even longer downtime though, so I don’t really see your point.

Maybe it will be, maybe it won’t. Sadly we’re not Oracles irl. The current state of the skill is really bad when compared to other stuff you can get, though.

While I’d like to agree with you, I’ve already learnt to not try to predict what IMC will do. They never cease to surprise me with their weird concepts of “balancing”.

There’s a considerable difference between 66% and 100% invencibility. And I’m also going to mention 66% chance to deny damage is much worse than 66% fixed damage reduction because it’s based purely on RNG.

Maybe the AoE is slightly bigger, but there’s not much of a difference and staying inside something that moves surely isn’t easier. It also makes your movement predictable. Enemies in pvp can aim traps for where your Foretell will move to, and since it’s not a 100% invencibility, you’ll have to either eat their traps and be risked to take damage or leave Foretell and forget it.

You’re trying really hard to make Sterea sound like it’s worse. But it’s not. Foretell will have exactly the same problem added to the fact it moves around so it’s harder to follow and stay inside. Imagine because of lag or whatever reason you are accidentally facing the wrong direction when you cast it. Or the boss moves around and happens to block the path of Foretell. Or some party member accidentally casts an ice wall where your Foretell will move to.

There are many problems added up to the fact it moves around that you are simply ignoring them. Maybe in theory moving around sounds better. But in practice it’s really not.

So both dealing damage and being immortal is worse than just 66% immortality? As a druid you have the option to use carnivory, but you’re not forced to use it. And before you say “but you’re wasting a skill” for not using Carnivory, Oracles don’t even have the option to deal any considerable dps at al.

I’m sorry to say this but you haven’t played Oracle C3 at all. Oracle’s dps is a bad joke at R8. The skill isn’t even working properly on bosses and even if it did, the 1m damage limit was added purposedly by IMC to nerf the skill hard for future content. It didn’t have a damage limitation when it was first released…

That being said, I doubt the damage cap will ever be removed or increased.

Maybe. But at the moment it’s off the meta for a pretty good reason - being a bad class overall.

Sorry if I’m sounding skeptical about the class, but it’s just utterly disappointing hitting Oracle C3 and seeing how bad it is for yourself. Again, remember being “bad” is relative. If it was my first and only char, maybe I wouldn’t consider it as bad. But after playing PD 2, Inquisitor and Druid 3, I can tell you Oracle c3 is pretty garbage as a R8 in comparison to others.

#289

Oracle C3 doesn’t have the flash that other classes have as C1 has enough utility on its own. However, a C3 Oracle can dish out skills that can make enemies question your motive (unpredictability).

Foretell doesn’t mean your team will move in that direction, but when used in cases like GvG, it is often used to “pincer” an opponent. One team having a guaranteed defense, the other team taking a gamble.

Death Sentence, very few people know how to utilize it. If you’re GvG/PvP oriented, it’s either lv 1 or 10 if you do plan to grab it. Lv 1 to slow them down as much as possible (doesn’t matter if it gets cured when it inflicts), Lv 10 to put pressure on their support to cure them.

Twist of Fate is your staple skill. Effective use of this skill will either land you an automatic kill or assist.

The remainder of the skills are self-explanatory. What is important though as Oracle 3 is the classes you picked before. The staple is Diev3, and it is good combine with Oracle as it basically gives you quite the amount of authority on positioning. Other options are Priest C3 (extreme support) and Bokor C3 both with C2 Cleric. I did see the very odd one of Krivis C2, Sadhu C2 (possession is a pain if you get death sentence by this setup).

Oracle 3 is by no means an end, but I’m quite sure that the future of this class (when combined with others) will become quite the force. You’ll find a lot of builds that support Oracle 3 theoretically, but when you get to somewhere like R10, I’m quite sure that Oracle 3 will be talked about more as the utility it provides is much stronger than many here believe.

#290

Swordsman chime in here. This kinda reminds me of Rodelero’s situation during rank 7 time.

If I remember correctly, there should be some costume datamine for the class “Fortune Teller”. At least we could hope/theorycraft about it.

IMO, while Oracle C3 has no awesome damage capability, its utility is still interesting and can provide some unique gameplay at times. If you happen to like its concept, I would say go for it. The devs tend to improve some class skills/attributes with circle 3 requirement.

#291

Well, the only class with possible synergy on Oracle C3 is Miko, but since Clap doesn’t do what it should do(?), it’s more than questionable actually.

What I mean with it’s easier to stay on Foretell is that it moves slowly but steadily, allowing you to move around on it in a certain direction without having to take additional risks. You can evade attacks in the AoE actively, reposition yourself, draw away the attention of the Boss e.g. just to name a few options.

Stationary, in contrast, forces you to think way more about possible outcomes of what the enemy is trying to do next.

I already had many situations where the protection ran out earlier than anticipated and I got myself a nice beating. Of course it’s more than likely that it’s not that fatal, but it’s frustrating if you get CCed in Counterspell (or out of it) or Safety Zone is melted by Zaibas/Dark Theurge/Flame Ground/Fire Pillar/etc. If you can evade out of the AoE simply because your magic circle is mobile, it’s amazingly useful.

To come back to the basic discussion of Oracle C3:
The basic question is "What can an Oracle C3 do alone?"
Nothing much I guess. However, the class actually provides a surprisingly good synergy with itself! The thing that hasn’t been discussed yet is probably the most interesting feature of the class. Oracle C3 is actually able to form a party with no other classes needed at all.

5 Safety Zones, 5 Counterspells, 5 Heals, 5 Death Sentences and, most important of all, 5 Twist of Fates.
5 Oracle C3s can kill any current dungeon boss in 1 second by simply spamming Twist of Fate together, and they don’t need any equip for it. They could even run naked through the dungeon and still finish the boss easily.
Show me any party setting that can achieve this. All your omg Mergen/Inquisitor/SR/Dragoon/Fencer/etc. builds that are currently so highly spoken of are not nearly as effective as 5 Oracle C3s. They all need rare,high upgraded/transcended weaponry, gems,potions, Glassmole/Chapparition cards,etc.
Oracle C3 doesn’t need this to kill the boss. The only problem is the bugged skill atm, but once it is fixed and people actually start to understand that they can farm effectively with the character, people might shift their opinion of the class. And I bet it will actually become the perfect class for ET,too.

#292

Yes it is, atm.

But if people really started doing that (stacking orac3 over each other just for twist) they will do a simple fix : as long the ennemy is under the debuff from twist he won’t be able to be affected by another twist.

Well the fix won’t come soon since anyway it’s almost impossible to get a party full of orac3 on 1 server with how popular and appealing the class is and for reasons.

just get a diev3 krivis3 or alot of other mix. Most of them will always be more useful than orac3 as it is now. And sadly orac3 is almost less usefull than diev3 with is 3 rank under it.

Only utility for roac3 atm is under special condition in gvg, otherwise pve it’s not worth going over c1 and tbl far from being as good as PD / kabba / inqui (if you go over c1).

Just if they put the attribute from counter spell only removing ennemy circle into circle2 would make that circle worth and not everyone would take it only for c1 as a wonder circle (it was like that before and was the reason oracle wasn’t popular until that attribute got given freely to any orac c1)

#293

Even if the CS attribute was in circle2 that would not justify putting 2 ranks in Oracle.

I would still get 1 in Oracle and just use CS like i did before the attribute existed.

#294

Nah,they most certainly wont do this, it would break the game in total because they’d destroy the whole class with this one change.
Afaik they never broke any class so far by rendering their skills useless if two or 3 of the same class use an offensive skill…

I think the reason there is a damagelimit to Twist of Fate is because of the developers actually calculating in the possibility of having multiple Oracle C3 players in one party. This is/will be the only adjustment I believe, otherwise they would’ve instead already added the debuff effect to prevent multiple ToF-hits on one target.

#295

Best if they made death sentence a 3 minute cd skill. At least then with the 75% reduction, it becomes a very spammable skill. Only available at C3~

#296

Actually the skill should become an AoE instead of reducing the CD to make it useful. The 2:30 mins with the CD reduction attribute are good enough, as one Circle of Dievdirbys can drop this to 2minutes. Oracle lacks AoEs,so making Death Sentence a useful AoE-skill could fix this.

The best changes to make the skill useful would be:

  • skill changes from target to ground target magic circle debuff (similar to Zombify, but it it would just apply the debuff and instantly vanish afterwards)
  • AoE of the magic circle increases with skilllevel; would be interesting to see an alteration per skilllevel of what is increased, e.g. even skilllevels increase the AoE-attackratio while uneven levels increase the size of the magic circle
  • the debuff rank of Death Sentence increases to 5 or 10 to prevent resisting the skill/curing it
#297

Death Sentence needs to be curable until there are skills that can cure higher levels of status effects. For those to go through, Oracles would become unstoppable in PvP/GvG unless you want to do a separate debuff for that. AoE death sentence wouldn’t serve much purpose other than to be a breather for the party.

As underwhelming as Oracle 3 is, a fix to Twist of Fate would already make the class terrifying in both PvE and PvP. Couple that with either a spammable Death Sentence or a Death Sentence which no mob other than bosses can be afflicted by it would make Oracle 3 an appealing choice.

#298

So, is Twist of Fate now working on bossmonsters as intended? (couldn’t reach Oracle C3 fast enough cause I caught a nasty cold xD)

#299

Not to the full extent. There is still a damage cap towards the upwards 500k. So while you can cast it on bosses now, there is still the damage limit.

#300

Twist works on instancied boss now, and is capped at 999k like on ktos.

#301

does gender change “permanent” or just temporary ???

#302

Permanent.

/20characters

1 Like
#303

Do you have screens to support that? Most I was ever able to get to was around high 500k. No more.

#304

Twist if nerfed by 50% of instancied boss, so if you want to hit the cap (999k), you need to hit a boss that has more than 4m hp at least.

By nerf I mean instead of 40-48% with dm, you will do 20-24% on a boss.

So for 1M you have to hit a boss from high lvl of ET or solmiki.