Tree of Savior Forum

Class Expansion Concern

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#1

Currently there are 80 Classes planned, and it is set with 10 Ranks.
What happen when there are more classes introduced? And what happen if you maxed your Ranks and want to get to C3 for those classes?

What I mean is, if you add a new class to Rank 8, and I already a Rank 10 character, how do I add C3 to this Rank 8 class? Same for adding a new class to Rank 9 with expansion to Rank 11, I can probably get C1 of a new class, but it would be impossible to get C3.

Would there be a Clear Class scroll when expansion comes? Each scroll to clear up to a particular Rank?

Also, would like to fix SPR, I believe Linker should be influenced by SPR on success to Knot. Chromo on the same case on Resist. Something is really wrong with SPR, as it is not impacting buff nor magical status alignment. This makes Linker OP without C3 for this reason.

#2

Nope, you’d have to create a new character if you wanted to make (full) use of that new class. The chance of a “Clear class scroll” coming out early in the game (Maybe after a year or so, if the games revenue falls off too much) is very unlikely, and there’s the issue of you getting the Circles maxed instantly if they’re beneath your current rank.

And they should do Linker like they did Bokor and give Penalty/Knot a chance to be resisted. Spread the pain.

2 Likes
#3

That’S why you make alts.

You enjoy a char, then you see you could make this shinobi or warlock too.
Then you just amke a new char, faster then efore duo equip swaps and money you earned.

And is rank 10 really the end?
I would count on it, that there will be increases on rank max xD.

#4

Linker isn’t really OP, it’s only good at closing the gap between single target class and AOE heavy class in grinding.

In pvp, since JP can be removed by cure, it makes the status pretty useless too unless your party has bad positioning (5 of you getting linked and instantly killed)

I do agree the knot may need some nerf in PVP though.

#5

How is this different from any other mmo that releases new classes. On 99% of them you have to make a new character. The ones where you don’t usually involve job switching which doesn’t fit in this game in the slightest.

2 Likes
#6

I am not sure I would level another character to 600 at that point.
I suppose they may introduce 3 Ranks (24 classes) and add C4 for each class, which is fine for a Rebirth. But I am not doing a Rebirth because it only adds 1 Rank to the game.

Regardless, this is my concern that the current system cannot be expand, and in no way I am spending another year to level another character to 600. You got to do better than that as a game company. I am paying for “fun” factors (“game”), and not a software that I mindlessly spend time on.

That is not a solution for “expansion”, that is an alternative (alts).
If they make an “expansion”, my existing character should “expand”, not decease.

You have a choice not to take on the new classes. But if the expansion adds another Rank, which means you are forced to change, and you need to adept to it. New classes in other game may not force you to change, you can stay the same.

#7

Linker isn’t really OP, but when you can be an offensive INT built and provide CC, then you are OP. To resolve this, you can make the CC scale with SPR, so you draw the line between a Good DPS vs Good CC class. You can be in the middle for Mediocre DPS and Mediocre CC, but you can’t be good at both to balance a class.

Furthermore, Linker is just an example. Each class at Rank 3 or above should scale with 2 Stats to make them dynamic. Thaumaturge with CON and SPR? Chronomancer with DEX and SPR? Elementalist with INT and SPR? I think this is something they need to work on, so you can have different built for each class.

#8

If you are referring to offensive INT build with strong CC, then many wizard class is OP. Wiz 3, the highest DPS class has an in-built 17 sec sleep, which is probably better than linker unless the enemy is flying class. Cryomancer which has the strong ice wall/psychic pressure combo has the best CC (freeze) in the game.

Linker only beat them by being a better support class for single target against 5-10 monsters. DPS and CC wise, he can never hold up to other wizard class. Also, most of the above build is only strong if you goes into C3, which means you couldn’t really ditch one rank for a rank of Linker C1.

#9

That is a myth. The game will not be anywhere near 600 when it launches here. The game is in OBT state over in Korea with the Cash Shop approaching, and they don’t even have Lvl 300 content yet. The highest level specifically stated by the company themselves for release was Lvl 350, and if we’re using the current EXP scaling for class progression, you should be at Rank 8 before Lvl 300 so there’s no way Rank 9 and 10 are going to take 300 more levels to complete.

[quote=“Indeed, post:6, topic:125885”]
Regardless, this is my concern that the current system cannot be expand, and in no way I am spending another year to level another character to 600. You got to do better than that as a game company. I am paying for “fun” factors (“game”), and not a software that I mindlessly spend time on.[/quote]
Okay then, may I ask how you would mitigate the issues of a Clear Class scroll? (This is a legitimate question, and not me being hostile)

  1. The “P2W” factor
    Many people would consider a Cash item that allows you to reset all of your Ranks under your initial class tree and freely choose whatever you want up into your current Rank to be blatant advantage towards spenders. Skill Point resets usually average between $15-$20 USD which are pretty affordable for most people, but something that would allow a complete reset without losing progress would certainly be much higher. Even $60 for something like this would sound like a great deal.

EXP Boosters also give an advantage, but the boost given is usually insignificant enough that not many people actually care about it (Unless it was +100% EXP Boost [x2] which, in this particular game, would cause an uproar). Being able to bypass 3+ months worth of leveling in minutes using the power of Paypal is breaking the border.

  1. Non-engaging
    The class system is one of, if not the best thing this game has going for it. How is it any fun if you have access to a scroll that can let you re-roll and choose new class releases, and get them instantly maxed out at Circle 15? As an example:
  • You are a Lvl 315 Rank 8 Cannoneer C2
  • IMC releases the new Engineer class! You can collect Boss Monster cards and use them to build Robots to fight with you in battle! Engineer unlocks at Rank 6.
  • Rank 8 is the current max Rank, so you buy a class reset and choose Engineer in your choices.
  • You are now a Lvl 315 Rank 8 Engineer C3, with 2 of your circles already maxed and all you had to do was buy an item.

^Giving players easy access to trampolining over core content is not good for a games health. You could say “Well, don’t make it so the classes are instant maxed, and require the player to re-level just the class levels.” and my response to leveling 300+ class levels without EXP Cards would be:

3 Likes
#10

Sleep and Freeze are Resistible by SPR. I never get Sleep/Freeze when I was pure SPR. Linker does not seem to be Resistible, which is the difference. If you want a Cryomancer to be effective, you need SPR in combine, which means your DPS is not as strong and more balanced.

#11

I think you mis-understand my post.
I am here to raise a concern, I am not here to suggest a reset scroll, and I never like that idea. But without a reset scroll, you are not going to make it, got it?

My original question is

#12

Oh. All that typing went to waste then. But,

Actually, if I like the new Class and/or Circles that are added, I would make a new character and level one. We’ve already covered the “Lvl 600” thing, and if our EXP rates here are close to kOBT’s rates, then you’ll be at Rank 5 within a month from playing casually (15 hours of gameplay a week). So the whole “Another year” thing is factored out now.

[quote=“Sixaxis, post:2, topic:125885”]
Nope, you’d have to create a new character if you wanted to make (full) use of that new class.[/quote]
With the way class progression in this game is set up, creating a method for players to go back and grab new class releases in earlier Ranks without having the Circles insta-maxed in the process is unfeasible, and allowing the Circles to be insta-maxed is unreasonable.

#13

There is also an option I mentioned, which is Rebirth. I do wish when they have 20/24 classes (3 more Ranks) introduced before they have Rebirth. And if they are pushing for C4, I think they need to review their scaling, as some skills cannot be scale more (eg. Safety Zone - diminish return on hits within 20 seconds), and some skills will be OP (eg. Haste/Quicken - pushing ASPD further?).

Regardless, I believe this is something they need to look into it if class expansion will be their stopper for expanding the game.

#14

Try do this… with mobs in your neck or against a ranged enemy…

Linker is just jump-kite.
both in pvp . pvp team both ( focus an e Full team takes damage ) disloyal to the burn mana. (Don’t need explain. yay? ) Don’t defend this, don’t makes sense.

#15

This is a poorly constructed question as voicing this as a concern is not actually what concerns IMC or Nexon or any other publisher they might have backing them and even if it was they pay proffesional game designers to deal with that stuff.

However there are a few reasons why having 4 ranks per class is a bad idea:

  1. Bad marketing practice - how would having 4 ranks per class at this stage in development benefit IMC or Nexon?

  2. Does not have reasonable cause - what validity does having 4 ranks per class have?

  3. Balancing - TOS is already out of closed beta stage and has been in development for a long time.

  4. Design Issues - Introducing rank 4 classes means introducing new mechanics for each class.

  5. Difficulty - Each new class at further ranks are such that they are intended to replace or build on top of your current playstyle not to force you into a single playstyle but to branch out into many and to build your character the way ‘you’ want to.

  6. Costs and Resources AND TIME - This would have been addressed in pre-development. It’s just unreasonable to expect that they will make a big design change when the game is open beta or even before closed beta.

You have to be smart about your class choices and to be the engineer of your dream character. Please quote me on that. :wink:

#16

He used the wrong term. What he meant was 4 “Circles” per Class, and it definitely wouldn’t be something they put in soon (Not with all the current issues they need to solve)-- it could be something they do in the future.

Introducing an extra Circle for classes is a great idea, as it allows people who grew attached to a certain Class to invest further into it instead of switching off to a different one that they like less, simply because they already reached C3 on their favorite(s). It’s not a forced change as people who don’t want to go C4 don’t have to go C4, and the resources and time used to build onto current features can pay off by attracting/keeping players in the game, if done right.

I’m hopeful that there’ll be more to character improvement other than throwing in more Circles. They’re on the right track with the Gems and Skill/Effect Weapons and whatnot, so I’m sure they’ll put effort into making more.

#17

It’s easy for a Cryomancer to freeze the enemy in PVE, so that you can set up your spell.

I don’t understand your second paragraph.
.
[/quote][quote=“Indeed, post:10, topic:125885”]
If you want a Cryomancer to be effective, you need SPR in combine
[/quote]
SPR increase freeze chance?

#18

Thanks for clarifying, and indeed, this will be a year from now when they have this issue.

I also believe they are doing a good job, but for this game to be better, these are the concerns they should look into as well, because it seems they make this game to have unlimited level, but if the expansion fail, it is all meaningless.

Perhaps you are right, it does not increase freeze chance. However, it seems INT would be overpower. Maybe INT should keep Amplified Multiplication, and have SPR taken for that role, since max SP and SP regen is rather useless in endgame, skills do not scale with SP.

#19

I do agree that the stat system for the game is strange. It seems to promote a pure build (especially pure INT/STR).

#20

Honestly I liked the game so long, if you make another character due to distance traveled do not think I remember the very easy initial quest … ( in my case) I just think every class should have more skills to give more option the game and classes.
It helps a lot.